[Gregsterama]

Looking for someone that's seen this before. I am not sure what to do next -- I broke the flange on one deck spindle and the other had a crack in it, so I replaced both of them. Everything went great until the blades gets tightened. When I do that both spindles become very hard to turn, like something is a misfit or I'm missing a part.

I've seen some youtube videos where the spindles spin easily when fully assembled. These two require both hands to even budge. I'm guessing the blade has about 60 ft-lbs of torque on it too.

Murray model 425009X8. (Deck assembly diagram at ereplacmentparts)
Spindle / Jackshaft housing model 1001200MA
Blade Adapter 690411MA

All parts came from Repairclinic.com and arrived in Briggs & Stratton boxes. I've even tried the old blade adapters and they cause the same result.

After 3 attempts I went ahead and installed the deck and ran it for about 5 minutes. The belt was almost smoking and the pulleys were extremely hot. I thought maybe the blade adapters would cut-into the aluminum housing or something - don't think so.

Good news though, I can get the deck on and off almost as fast as an Indy Pit Crew now.

If somebody could help me out before I have to push-mow again it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[antiqueetc]

How about part #6 in that drawing? Present and accounted for?

 

[Gregsterama]

Yes - all the parts in the diagram are present. I think I solved it though. After two hours with the deck upside down and inserting old and new blade adapters I decided to grind one blade adapter down with a dremel tool. I took off maybe a 64th of an inch -- and that spindle improved about 30%. I got both of them and all my grinder bits and went to work. After taking about 1/16" off of the surfaces that didn't sit on the bearing both blades spin like ceiling fans now.

The blade adapter part 390411MA wasn't the right thickness and was binding against the housing. Very annoying to have to modify a new part, but the deck performs very well.

I also greased the spindles fully, painted the deck, lubed all the moving parts. After almost a week of being down - It will be fun to mow the yard next time.

 

[Whirly]

if ur bearings were sealed on both sides.. greasing the spindles will do no good.. that grease u put in will not get into the bearings.. ur just makin a big mess to clean up next time u replace the bearings..

I do know Toro still puts zerks on the spindles & also has seals on both sides of the bearings..

 

[wwxx]

You may have to verify that the spacer within each brg. hsg. assy.s is actually in there, (the spacer fits between the upper BB and the lower BB, jackshaft assembles within that spacer) and if you still have your old brg. hsg. assy.s compare the length of the old internal spacer to the new internal spacer. If the old ones are longer then you found your problem. It could be the machined area in the housing was machined to the wrong depth, which would not allow the BB's to assemble to the correct dimensions, probably on the lower Ball Bearing recess, which is causing your blade adapter to bind.

If you can identify the the problem, promptly contact your supplier with the proof, they might sell thousands of those things per day.

Instead of grinding your adapters, you might try a small outside diameter shim or washer of various thickness (that will not ride against the BB seal) between the bearing inner race and the the blade adapter, or install it internally between the spacer and the BB inner race. Whatever the problem is, it is probably a warranty defect, but you have to prove which piece is made wrong, if your going to get your supplier to make it right.

wwxx

by-the-way, grease fittings are only useful, if you use them.

 

[BushBoneYard]

Just an fyi, grease does penetrate the seals.....

Gregsterama, I have never heard this happening to someone, glad you got it sorted.

In 2002 there was a mandrell housing upgrade, starting with the Stanley branded tractors, and eventually applied to the entire line up. The housing, blade adapter and a another part or two were updated. It almost sounds like you may have been sent an incorrect adapter or housing, or at least one packaged incorrectly.

 

[Whirly]

Just an fyi, grease does penetrate the seals.....
.

to me this type of thing is pushin grease thro a 'contaminated' area or void to go inside a 'sterile' thing.. I would not tell a guy to do this as it will put rust inside the bearing..

I have used pillow blocks that were greaseable with a zerk.. but they had a small pathway in the outer race for the grease to travel thro to get inside the bearing.. that grease didn't have to go thro the seal to get inside.. also they were greased when made.. they also had a note in the package that stated 'only one pump needed' from a grease gun..

 

[mla2ofus]

to me this type of thing is pushin grease thro a 'contaminated' area or void to go inside a 'sterile' thing.. I would not tell a guy to do this as it will put rust inside the bearing..

I have used pillow blocks that were greaseable with a zerk.. but they had a small pathway in the outer race for the grease to travel thro to get inside the bearing.. that grease didn't have to go thro the seal to get inside.. also they were greased when made.. they also had a note in the package that stated 'only one pump needed' from a grease gun..

Once, in 32 yrs of changing pillow block brgs, we installed a new one and it shelled out in about an hour. It was dry inside, so after that we always pumped grease in them until a small amount weeped out of the seals.
Mike

 

[Gregsterama]

I bought a caliper to check the dimensions on all the pieces. The spindle and spacer matched the old parts I removed. Even the bearing recesses too. The dimension that jumped out to me was the blade adapter was a little thicker than the recess in the spindle housing. I didn't think it mattered because the blade adapter had a inside ring that rides on the bearing - I left that alone and grinded the surfaces beneath that. After grinding for 5 minutes a test fit proved that it did matter.

The hint I got was on an amazon review for the blade adapter. A couple of reviewers said that these blade adapters didn't fit or they were too thick.

Maybe the adapters were packaged incorrectly but on one I shaved about 1/32" and it worked great - the other one required twice as much before it spun the same. I'm guessing all the tolerance were working against me.

It was really frustrating though to put it all together (repeatedly) and BOTH blades just lock down tight. But now I think the deck runs quieter than it did before too.

I probably should have taken pictures too.

I know the debate about the grease and some call them dummy zerks, but the manual instructs you to fill them.

 

[Whirly]

Once, in 32 yrs of changing pillow block brgs, we installed a new one and it shelled out in about an hour. It was dry inside, so after that we always pumped grease in them until a small amount weeped out of the seals.
Mike

most pillow blocks made today have the permanent greased seals.. but these do not have a zerk too.. & if u removed the seal to get the grease in it. u had to damage the seal part.. some bearings come with a steel type seal.. other will have a hard plastic.. removin them will make them prone to poppin out on their own..

 

[BushBoneYard]

to me this type of thing is pushin grease thro a 'contaminated' area or void to go inside a 'sterile' thing.. I would not tell a guy to do this as it will put rust inside the bearing..

Well, the manufacturer says to do it.....

I'm confused as to how this would cause a rusty bearing situation?. Not quite following what "putting rust inside the bearing" means. If anything, wouldn't any introduction of grease be a benefit?. Whenever I or anyone on my board has experienced what we call CBF [catastrophic bearing failure] none of us, to my knowledge, have reported rust being a factor. Just a failed "bearing wall/seal" and greasy bearings. What am I missing? :dunno:

 

[BushBoneYard]

I bought a caliper to check the dimensions on all the pieces. The spindle and spacer matched the old parts I removed. Even the bearing recesses too. The dimension that jumped out to me was the blade adapter was a little thicker than the recess in the spindle housing. I didn't think it mattered because the blade adapter had a inside ring that rides on the bearing - I left that alone and grinded the surfaces beneath that. After grinding for 5 minutes a test fit proved that it did matter.

The hint I got was on an amazon review for the blade adapter. A couple of reviewers said that these blade adapters didn't fit or they were too thick.

Maybe the adapters were packaged incorrectly but on one I shaved about 1/32" and it worked great - the other one required twice as much before it spun the same. I'm guessing all the tolerance were working against me.

It was really frustrating though to put it all together (repeatedly) and BOTH blades just lock down tight. But now I think the deck runs quieter than it did before too.

I probably should have taken pictures too.

I know the debate about the grease and some call them dummy zerks, but the manual instructs you to fill them.

Thanks for reporting this. I'm sure this will come up often in the next couple years. I may even drop Briggs a heads up email. This can be a very frustrating situation for LOTS of people.

 

[Whirly]

Well, the manufacturer says to do it.....

I'm confused as to how this would cause a rusty bearing situation?. Not quite following what "putting rust inside the bearing" means. If anything, wouldn't any introduction of grease be a benefit?. Whenever I or anyone on my board has experienced what we call CBF [catastrophic bearing failure] none of us, to my knowledge, have reported rust being a factor. Just a failed "bearing wall/seal" and greasy bearings. What am I missing? :dunno:

have u dicussed an issue like this with a bearing manufacturer.. what do they say about addin grease to their bearing..

 

[BushBoneYard]

have u dicussed an issue like this with a bearing manufacturer.. what do they say about addin grease to their bearing..

By the manufacturer I mean Murray, Murray says to grease the quill, which in turn greases the bearing. The zerk was added to prolong bearing life. I'll ask again, please explain "put rust into the bearing".

 

[Whirly]

By the manufacturer I mean Murray, Murray says to grease the quill, which in turn greases the bearing. The zerk was added to prolong bearing life. I'll ask again, please explain "get rust into the bearing".

rust or corroded aluminum can b found inside some quills.. u will never know this till u open one up..

 

[BushBoneYard]

rust or corroded aluminum can b found inside some quills.. u will never know this till u open one up..

If you are following the manufacturers [Murray] maintenance recommendations, there will be no rust. The only part that could rust would be the jackshaft, which should be covered in grease, as well as the wall of the housing. This is not an issue as the OP's parts were sourced new. Even if debris was present, I would surprised if any sizable matter would pass the seal. Maybe that's a question for the bearing manufacturer?

If those are the concerns I would simply advise upon re assembly to "clean all parts thoroughly" as opposed to "don't grease".

 

[Whirly]

If you are following the manufacturers [Murray] maintenance recommendations, there will be no rust. The only part that could rust would be the jackshaft, which should be covered in grease, as well as the wall of the housing. This is not an issue as the OP's parts were sourced new. Even if debris was present, I would surprised if any sizable matter would pass the seal. Maybe that's a question for the bearing manufacturer?

If those are the concerns I would simply advise upon re assembly to "clean all parts thoroughly" as opposed to "don't grease".

lets do some talkin on the CBF thing.. when a bearing get's used it will get warm.. this will heat the air inside of it too.. (brand new bearings do have air in them..) now with a seal on both sides as the air get's warm it expands.. some will exit the bearing .. when the bearing cools off it creates a partial vacuum inside & sucks in air.. all air contains moisture.. & this will go in with the air.. in just small amounts.. it doesn't take much moisture to get rust started..

deck bearings have a short life cause of the moisture in the grass that is cut.. some of this moisture will wind up inside the bearing..

 

[BushBoneYard]

After this conversation I feel confident that I can continue to tell members here at MTF and my Murray board that "greasing the quill assembly" is not only recommended, but encouraged.

 

[Whirly]

After this conversation I feel confident that I can continue to tell members here at MTF and my Murray board that "greasing the quill assembly" is not only recommended, but encouraged.

JD needs to sell u some of their 'high stress' grease for ur bearings.. at 17$$ a tube..

 

[BushBoneYard]

There are two things I am sure of in life.

1. I'm going to die

2. John Deere will never see a penny out of me. Ever.