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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I recently aquired a CC149, not running of course. Now the kind fella who gave it to me(Kind meaning the tractor was free with cab, blower, mower, tiller and chipper) saiad he had rebuilt the S/G but it diddn't workk right. So it sat for an unknown period of time. I cleaned all conections to everything even new bolts on the s/g and installed a new battery and won't turn over with the plug in. I'm going to take the S/G apart and check it, but I had read about a compression relase, on the engine, could that be toast and causing probs, or is the S/G toast and need rebiulding? I am trying to trouble shoot one thing at a time but with out the thing running I can't move on. need some opinions. If this was a Briggs I woulkd be ok but I'm a newbie when it comes to the Kolhers
 

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I am by no means an exspert on these machines, but have you tried to turn the motor over by hand?
Will it turn the motor over with the plug out?
Can you turn the motor over by hand with the plug in?

Being that you are used to working on Briggs, these Kohlers should not be a problem.
 

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On an old Kohler K-series? You can look at parts diagrams right on kohlerengines.com for it, but the compression release is just a simple mechanical flyweight type deal on the crank that holds the exh valve open until a certain minimum RPM is reached. Like LonnyB says, you will have low compression spinning it over by hand if it works.

Joel
 

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As some additional information.

(A) You could remove the S/G belt and see if the S/G turns freely without the load.

(B) Go here for the K Series Service Manual....Kohler. Look at Section 9.
 

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Patt,
First check the valve lash. A valve last that is off with not open the exhaust valve. Your only talking about 4 or 5 thous is enough to cause the engine to not crank. If not there is a problem the ACR spring. You might be lucky and it just unclipped itself. You need to take the cam cover off the side of the block and look at the cam. The spring is small in diameter and breaks easly. You migth be able to just rehook it. I've had this happen on a couple engines. Also the tabs on the cam can break also. You might have to lift the engine out the tractor a couple inches to get the cover off. Just take the 4 pan bolts out and jack it up with a floor jack. You wont have to take much a part to get to the cover.
Good luck!!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
OK...so far S/G turns great, no load. i just snapped the car on it with cables and it decided to turn over with the plug in, so of course i went "woo hoo" and pulled the plug checked for spark sprayed a little gas in the hole and nothing no bang for by buck. then after cranking a few times i came up to not turning it over on the commpression stroke. it go around and then bog through the compression and come around again. so pulled the head. curiosity got me. valves seem good. seats look fine, cylinder walls great, and valves seem to go up and down as they should. now is the comp release when the exaust valve opens slightly on one of the strokes other than the exaust stroke itself! and also which direction is that motor supposed to spin?
Could the S/G be spinning the motor in reverse can those S/G be rebiult in reverse ? I know golf carts run the motor in reverse to back up. should'nt Air + Feul + Spark = Bang. Could the motor be out of time. I'm shooting in the dark. There is no job so simplethat it cannot be done Wrong!
 

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Yes it very well could be spinning in reverse the engin should be turning clockwise from looking at the front (flywheel) side ( I think )
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Huge thanks for all of the great posts and mmzullo i will pull that cover and have a boo at it thanks that makes sense. that sounds great. With every body's help i will be a cc/kolher pro in no time. I'll have go dig out my torqe wrench and get that head back on and giver a go. i'll keep you fine folks posted on my findings posted. like I said the tractor was free with cap and all the goodies, so a little work is worth it.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Is that clockwise from the facing the pto or the tranny/ sitting in the seat side? thanks. and keep the opinions comming, i love hearing them
 

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Clockwise looking at the Flywheel is the usual rotation for the old kohlers.. The Compression release folks are chattin up is a spring loaded lil knob/assembly that moves the lobe(s) on the camshaft which keeps the valve(s) open for a bit during the compression stroke at slow rotating speeds thus less of a volume of air/gas is "compressed" which eases the power needed to start the beast! The location of this device is with the camshaft in the engine / crankshaft compartment.. Unfortunately these sometimes fail in older engines and parts are available to repair but engine disassembly is required.. Reading through your posts I see that the starter is turning but you are unsure of this item as the previous owner worked on it.. Let's start there.. I see you cleaned the contacts- Did you check & clean the ground contacts? If you did- Nice job! Next I would pull off the brush cover(s) on the starter/generator to insure that they are all installed correctly and all are making good connection with the S/G shaft.. Look for discoloration or burning of these parts whcih indicates poor or overheated connections. If this is so you can try removing and cleaning these again.. After you get things spinning check your spark /plugs (Bright white/blue is good.) Also check the ignition points condition/ setting. (usually .020) You bypassed the carb by putting some gas in the engine so as long as you have decent compression it should start. If still no start put a small shot of oil in the cylinder to seal up the piston a bit and try it again.. If still no go rebuild is in order. (There is no reason to suspect misaligned timing unless the engine has been apart!) Check the rear (PTO) engine plate/seal for a clean gasket or some fresh sealant as an indication there.. Sorry for the long-winded note but I couldn't stop my darn fingers (again!) Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Clockwise looking at the Flywheel is the usual rotation for the old kohlers.. The Compression release folks are chattin up is a spring loaded lil knob/assembly that moves the lobe(s) on the camshaft which keeps the valve(s) open for a bit during the compression stroke at slow rotating speeds thus less of a volume of air/gas is "compressed" which eases the power needed to start the beast! The location of this device is with the camshaft in the engine / crankshaft compartment.. Unfortunately these sometimes fail in older engines and parts are available to repair but engine disassembly is required.. Reading through your posts I see that the starter is turning but you are unsure of this item as the previous owner worked on it.. Let's start there.. I see you cleaned the contacts- Did you check & clean the ground contacts? If you did- Nice job! Next I would pull off the brush cover(s) on the starter/generator to insure that they are all installed correctly and all are making good connection with the S/G shaft.. Look for discoloration or burning of these parts whcih indicates poor or overheated connections. If this is so you can try removing and cleaning these again.. After you get things spinning check your spark /plugs (Bright white/blue is good.) Also check the ignition points condition/ setting. (usually .020) You bypassed the carb by putting some gas in the engine so as long as you have decent compression it should start. If still no start put a small shot of oil in the cylinder to seal up the piston a bit and try it again.. If still no go rebuild is in order. (There is no reason to suspect misaligned timing unless the engine has been apart!) Check the rear (PTO) engine plate/seal for a clean gasket or some fresh sealant as an indication there.. Sorry for the long-winded note but I couldn't stop my darn fingers (again!) Good luck!
Here is what I have done so far since I brought the machine home,
1, Change the oil, and ran clean oil through till it ran clean.
2, cleaned the tank, sediment bowl, feul line and carb( never seen a more discusting tank)
3, cleaned all ground conections, I removed the s/g and it's bracket and took a flap wheel to all places where the bolts contact the bracket and vise versa, I even polished the mating surfaces where the bracket mounts the block I took the flap wheel to the battery ground connection to the frame, then flapped all cable lugs and replaced the battery connection bolts and the s/g mounting bolts and the chassis ground bolt( I trouble shoot audio systems for a living and ground is important)
4, New battery
5, New plug, It has fire, I zapped myself three times on the plug wire "Whee!"
6, cleaned the points
7, cleaned the ground for the condensor
8, wire brushed the contacts on the coil
9, now have the head off to make sure the valves were opening
I think I'm going to post a youtube video I of what is happening after I reinstall the head and insect the acr spring.
and thanks everybody for all of the great ideas so far, I will get this thing to go by winter even if it kills me, after last winter the cab and snowblower are going to rule!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I have to take another look but I have a sinking feeling that the motor is running in reverse. the vanes on the fly wheel look like they are supposed to go clockwise and the flywheel is spinning counter clockwise ( I Think...) will double check in a few hours when I get home from the gig. Man I am so OCD, comes from being a soundman I guess lol
 

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If you still have the head off observe the valves as you rotate the flywheel.. When the intake (larger) valve is open the piston should be going down.. This will put the whole rotation issue to bed.. As far as the youtube video it would be a great idea to do and I'd love watching somebody else cursing at their ride cuz it's causing them headaches!! (J/K!!):drunkie:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
If you still have the head off observe the valves as you rotate the flywheel.. When the intake (larger) valve is open the piston should be going down.. This will put the whole rotation issue to bed.. As far as the youtube video it would be a great idea to do and I'd love watching somebody else cursing at their ride cuz it's causing them headaches!! (J/K!!):drunkie:
I'll be doing that when i get home, makes sense piston goes down creates neg pressure suck in air and hopfully fuel, That's why I live in the country I can play with my tractor at 3 am!
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Okay... The S/G is spinning the engine counter clockwise...
no wonder is was blowing everything out the carb. Now I just have to tear the gosh darn s/g down and figure out how to reverse the phase and make it spin the oposite direction can it be done without new parts? Id hate to spend $100 if i don't have to, but I can't avoid it oh well, tractor was Free. any body have any links on the web about rebuilding the s/g like pics of the guts. I'm pretty good at figuring stuff like that out but any help is great help
 

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patthesoundguy:

It it not unheard off, that some one bought the wrong S/G for a Cub Cadet. Some people don't realize that each manufacturer has their own revolution spec's.

For a concise listing of Cub Cadet S/G information.... try this link...S/G
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
patthesoundguy:

It it not unheard off, that some one bought the wrong S/G for a Cub Cadet. Some people don't realize that each manufacturer has their own revolution spec's.

For a concise listing of Cub Cadet S/G information.... try this link...S/G
That info was perfect, you read my mind! this morning i took the model # from my s/g to research to see if it was the right on or not. and it is. thanks to you
Thank you, Thank you.
now to figure why it's running in reverse.
 

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i'm not sure with the old S/G tractors but all with a normal starter spin the engine backwards until it fires. then it wouldn't burn out a starter from going all the time while running but like i said i've never had one with a starter/generator so i could be wrong. just a thought.
 
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