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Discussion Starter #1
Hello, I am new and have been repairing a case/ingersoll 226 hydriv. I have the engine running nicely after trying to repair fuel pump (integrated into carburetor, did not seem to respond to rebuild) and then switching in an electric fuel pump with low pressure.

Question: now I have realized that one whole transmission side is not turning. completely frozen left wheel, really does not move one mm. So there is enough power (and presumably hydraulic motor running OK) to pull the whole tractor across grass, leaving a big mess) based on the R side wheel, when this does not spin because not enough traction. Any ideas or common things that go wrong? This seems like such a tough transmission that it is hard to imagine it getting so messed up, since previous owner said it just stopped.

I am imagining that if I open it up I will see some sort of mess in the differential, I have also heard of gear bolts shearing on other ingersoll models, but I think that would disable both sides,and only affect one gear e.g. H or L, no?

Also, it looks like with pulling off the seat, gas tank and wheel guards it is pretty easy to get at the transmission just be removing a top cover, is that right or do I need to get ready for a more painful process (at least just to scope it out)?

I see that there are transmissions on ebay in good shape for $200 (for similar models, hopefully that is ok) so that also gives some hope if there is a total mess.

Thanks so much for your help!!
 

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Sounds like broken differential bolts to me. If transaxle housing isn’t broken, maybe easy fix.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
ok, thanks! transaxle housing, are you referring to the overall outer case (orange painted on outside) or a housing interior to the transaxle that sits inside? I will look inside and look for the differential bolts on the service manual diagram.....
 

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Discussion Starter #4
2458202
that's the differential if it is showing up on the post, would differential bolts be somewhere in that area? Nothing in that area is referenced as a bolt...
 

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Yes it could be broken differential bolts jammed in a gear. They are not in that picture but bolt #27 together. I replaced mine as preventive maintenance. I got them from Fastenal at a reasonable price (grade 8 nuts and bolts)
 

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Discussion Starter #6

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Discussion Starter #7
I'll wait to see what I find, but it also makes sense since it looks like the power from the hydraulic motor shaft goes first to the right wheel and then the L follows via the differential - so a snag on the L wheel would still allow the R to be driven, right - kind of like having a cinder block chocking the L wheel except the block is inside the transaxle :(
 

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The Hydraulic motor drives an intermediate sliding gear. Which is what makes HI - Low shifting possible. You can't see the hydraulic motor shaft or the low speed drive gear in this picture, they're below the oil level:
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The differential 'carrier' is in the bottom center and those 4 bolts hold both of the final drive gears and the carrier all together as one unit. So NO the motor does not drive one side or the other it drives the differential that in turn drives the axle shafts.. The ends of the axle shafts are those small narrow looking 'gears' in the center of the differential carrier.

Best course of action is to drop the rear end, there are only like 6 bolts that hold it on and with a parts manual from the Case - ingersoll site tear it down and see whats up. Then get alhold of for any parts you need.
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all of the tractors 200, 400. 600. 3000. 4000, 6000 use the same rear end differential and gears. the only differences are in the drive motors and whether the axle shafts are 5 bolt or 6 bolt.
 

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As was said, it does kinda sound like one or more of those bolts might be broken. Not a monster deal really to check. Make sure you check the case good if something is broke. There is not a lot of space in there so if a bolt snaps off it wedges its self between the steel of the gears and the softer iron case.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Great, thanks everyone for your really detailed responses and ideas. Now I just need the nerve and the time....
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hi, OK, I'm back after opening it up (sorry did not have cell phone with to take a photo)
Question- if I cannot see any loose bolt pieces and all the bolt heads and nuts seem tight, no wiggle, AND if the transaxle behaves kind of like a differential where when you rotate one of the raised axles the other side rotates in the opposite direction, could it still be the bolts snapping and jammed gears inside the gear mechanism where the axles come together? I am kind of thinking not.

Also I have a bit of a strange idea of what the problem is, when the hydraulic side motor wheel (left side, facing forward) is bolted all the way on it seems to jam against the motor case and does not turn. Now I am wondering if this was the problem all along. It would explain why perhaps the motor would only drive the right side in high gear (too low a gear ratio to free the jammed wheel) while running in low gear (more power to both wheels so manages to scrape along on the left side). I will try running the engine with the rear jacked up and see whether I can get both axles to turn in low and high gear with the wheels off. However what would cause that? it seems really strange that the necessary clearances are not maintained, could the hydraulic motor have popped out a bit to the right at some point? Pretty sure these are the original wheels. If it is just wheel rim clearance aI may just make a circular shim plate and bring the left wheel out 3/16 inch or so.

Also does anyone know what type of bolts the motor is mounted to the transaxle with? looks like some sort of splined bolt.

Thanks again, Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hi, OK, I'm back after opening it up (sorry did not have cell phone with to take a photo)
Question- if I cannot see any loose bolt pieces and all the bolt heads and nuts seem tight, no wiggle, AND if the transaxle behaves kind of like a differential where when you rotate one of the raised axles the other side rotates in the opposite direction, could it still be the bolts snapping and jammed gears inside the gear mechanism where the axles come together? I am kind of thinking not.

Also I have a bit of a strange idea of what the problem is, when the hydraulic side motor wheel (left side, facing forward) is bolted all the way on it seems to jam against the motor case and does not turn. Now I am wondering if this was the problem all along. It would explain why perhaps the motor would only drive the right side in high gear (too low a gear ratio to free the jammed wheel) while running in low gear (more power to both wheels so manages to scrape along on the left side). I will try running the engine with the rear jacked up and see whether I can get both axles to turn in low and high gear with the wheels off. However what would cause that? it seems really strange that the necessary clearances are not maintained, could the hydraulic motor have popped out a bit to the right at some point? Pretty sure these are the original wheels. If it is just wheel rim clearance aI may just make a circular shim plate and bring the left wheel out 3/16 inch or so.

Also does anyone know what type of bolts the motor is mounted to the transaxle with? looks like some sort of splined bolt.

Thanks again, Steve
Sorry one correction, just to not be confusing: i meant whether the motor could have popped out to the LEFT, not right. Kind of direction-dyslexic some times.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
One further note, I see in the manual that the LH and RH shafts have different lengths, and if someone had switched them during a previous repair they could have called this clearance issue (LH is longer so swapping with RH would bring wheel rim closer to the hydraulic motor)

So question: how much work to re-swap axles? once that center differential-type gear mechanism is taken apart, do the axles just pull out? maybe a shim is easier and better work investment for the age of the tractor?

Thanks
 

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Get the parts manual if you have not already, There is a 'c -clip' on the end of each axle in the center of the different gears.



in the picture I posted in the center there is a vertical rod and to the left and right it looks like small teeth, those are the ENDS of the axles, and the smooth area right next to those are the C Clips. Once you pop those clips out, the axles WILL slide right out of the tractor and the one that's NOT turning if it won't move, you found where your issue is.

The hydraulic motor drives the entire gear carrier via either the large gear on the right end (standing behind the tractor) or via the smaller gear on the left and those are all bolted together and rotate as one unit. The 'Spider gears' that are the actual differential are inside the central housing and those allow the axles to turn at different speeds.

and once you get the axles out and before you ask to get the gear cluster out, you have to POP out the brake shaft and gear and I do mean POP. There is an internal snap ring inside the brake gear. so you put a long and large punch on the inside end of the axle shaft and rap it sharply with a large hammer, like a 2 POUND sledge, not some tack hammer and the shaft will pop loose.

If you're that far in, order all new seals from Barneveld and save trouble down the road.
 
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Discussion Starter #15
Hi, thanks sddunt, to pop out the c-clips, is that just two screwdrivers from either side to pop them off, or some other more special tool?

Thanks much.
 

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Yep, two screw drivers, etc. they just push on and off.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Any advice for flushing out the transaxle case before refilling? gunk or some special solvent? just gasoline?

thanks!
 

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There was a long debate on the CCI forum when someone suggested to refill with Diesel, and run it propped up on blocks for a while and then drain to flush it. Many thought that would strip oil off surfaces that needed it.. I tend to agree.. If you have the rear apart, with gears out, etc, then flush away.

If the rear is still in the tractor and this is a seasonal oil change I would be careful about 'flushing'. Running the rear up on blocks in high gear and fast, basically trying to stir things up as much as possible before a drain would be good. Or do the drain immediately after a long session of use..
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks, diesel sounds great as a little bit "oilier" , and cheap... it's all opened up so I will just flush and clean it up a bit.

One more Q: tips for getting the axle seals out? Ok to mangle them since they are coming out anyway?

Thanks for all the help!

BTW I am totally flummoxed because the axles were not switched left/right (the short/long difference is way bigger that what would explain the problem, basically you can't put it back together with axles switched), the differential works fine, no broken bolts as apparently sometimes happens with these models, axles turn fine with the wheels off it was just the left wheel rim hard against the hydraulic motor when the lug bolts are tightened up. And I have no idea how that could happen (wheel rims switched? - not likely, look original); hydraulic motor moved out from transaxle case to the left? (but no sign of any taking apart or wrong putting back together there) - it is a lot of movement too, I am making a 1/4" shim out of mild steel plate to move the left wheel out and create clearance, I think that will totally solve the axle not moving problem. But any other theories welcome, it seems like such a silly solution, if not too difficult.

Best,
Steve
 

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If you're replacing the seals, they can be pried out which will destroy them. To get the bushing out I know I ran a really long, smaller shaft, like 3/8" from one axle opening all of the way across the tranny to the other side so I could tap out the outer bushing on that side. Getting the inner bushing out was not as much of a problem.

But, if the axles don't have huge wear on it, the bearing should be OK, just install new seals for the age.

The rims on the CCI tractors have a HUGE back set, like 5 to 6 inches.. There should be SEVERAL inches clearance between the rims and that motor.

Tried to find something that shows the spacing, I'm a Case LOADER guy, so I don't have pictures of 2xx and 4xx tractors. Also know that the Case rims are installed with the valve cores to the INSIDE of the wheel, not on the outside to protect them. If someone flipped the rims so the valve cores are on the outside I don't think they would even bolt up the offset on the rims is so large

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Thats a Case 646, but it has the same rear axle as 2xx and 4xx tractors.. The frame is different,but rim - tire offset is comparable.
 
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