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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Everyone:

I'd like to get opinions on this question:

- Local seller has a 1998 Ingersoll Riding Mower model 3014, 14 H.P. with 48" deck. All hydro with 350 hours. exc. condition asking $1275 Link: http://stlouis.craigslist.org/grd/1919451158.html

- Another seller has a 1982 Case 446 (see my other post). This tractor has an 18 hp Onan, a 48" deck, and a snowplow. Unit looks to be in good condition and has some new parts. Cost would be around the same

Any opinions on the reliability, parts availability, etc. of the Ingy vs. the Case? Which would you rather have?

Thanks
 

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IMO the 1998 - 3014 is a nice tractor and the price is very good. It is almost like new. Best deal of the 2 ....

:trink39:
 

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HeadCase For My Ingersoll
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A 3014 is in essence an updated Case 224. The biggest difference being that this 3014 has a Briggs Vanguad twin instead of the Kohler single. Electric PTO, relocated hydrive cooler, updated hood, etc are also diffeences from 224's. Hour meters can be defective, so I would trust the overall condition before what an hour meter says. It looks in good condition, but pictures are very misleading.

What is new on the 446 may be the deciding factor. Keep in mind that Onan engines are not cheap to rebuild. I recommend looking the engine over well... Or bringing someone who can. Run the tractor for a while; Put it through it's paces. Check for any possible malfunction because if the engine does need a rebuild and you lay a thousand down to purchase, you will be overpaying for a tractor worth $400-500.
 

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I have had several of each, over the years. For mowing only, I would get the 3014. If you plan to do other things like tilling or snow blowing I would get the 446. The 3014 will do both, but there is a noticeable difference in power. Also, a hydrabagger makes the 14 HP work hard...I tried that twice.

Now the above statement considers them to both be in good condition. You could put a lot of hours on the old Onan engines. Just because the hours are low on the 3014, does not mean it has been well cared for, or that it is in tip-top shape. I once saw a two year old Ingersoll with a blown engine. The owner used it hard, and had never checked/ changed the oil. That was an extreme condition, but it proves a point. Maintenance is 95% of everything in used equipment.

Personally, whether I did it or not, I'd ask the owners if I could take the tractors to a dealer to get them checked over. Their reaction might tell you something.

As for parts, you should have little trouble getting them for either tractor, used or from a dealer, short of a crankshaft for the Onan. You will see more used 446 parts, than used 3014 parts, for sale.
 

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So far, you've received two very good opinions and one that leaves a lot to be desired.

If you take a look at the photo of the 3014, you will not only see water on the ground but also water all over the tractor. What you are seeing here is the "wet look" and that's a trick that makes tractors look nice and shiny for their Prom photos. Secondly, I never trust hour meter readings. They often mean nothing. The rule of thumb is that 50 hours per year is the AVERAGE usage for tractors in residential usage. Since this is a 12 year old unit, 600 hours is what one would expect to see on the clock.

So when you don't see a reading close to that, the red flags should go up. It may well be that it is an honest tractor. Close inspection should confirm that one way or the other. But no one should look at a photo and leap to the conclusion that this tractor is "nearly new" or that it is the better buy.

Which one is better for you is what's at issue. Realistically, the decks and snowcasters for the 3014 are harder to come by and more expensive than for the 446. The Vanguard will use a bit less gas than the Onan will but it won't deliver the gut-wrenching torque of the Onan either. If you decide to add the rear PTO and 3 point, then it's easier to find them for the 446 and often cheaper too.

The 3014 is easier to get on and off but the 446 will give you a smoother ride and if you decide to go gardening, the 446 has 4 more inches of ground clearance. You are also getting a plow blade with the 446 but nothing else with the 3014. Both are highly capable tractors. For sure, the Vanguard will cost less to rebuild but it will still cost. You won't rebuild a Vanguard for the same money as what it costs for a Kohler K.

Only you can look at the two tractors, inspect them closely, test drive them and then decide which one is best suited for your own needs on a long-term basis.
 

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You know what " Castaway ", you leave a lot to be desired. LOL ... The man washes his tractor for a photo and " you " immediately have him dubbed as a " Shister ". I guess you figure 99% of the world is out to fleece you. Who cares about the cost & availability of a mower deck, this 3014 has one on it. I suggest you try to be more positive when members ask for advise instead of always trying to steal the show. Your 50+ posts a day don't make you the " King " around here as far as I'm concerned.
 

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You know what " Castaway ", you leave a lot to be desired. LOL ... The man washes his tractor for a photo and " you " immediately have him dubbed as a " Shister ". I guess you figure 99% of the world is out to fleece you. Who cares about the cost & availability of a mower deck, this 3014 has one on it. I suggest you try to be more positive when members ask for advise instead of always trying to steal the show. Your 50+ posts a day don't make you the " King " around here as far as I'm concerned.
:Stop:This isn't a road you want to travel, Freddie.

First off, you're the one who used the term "Shister", which is actually spelled "Shyster" but why would I expect you to know that? All I said was that wet tractors look shiny and that it's an old trick that many sellers use to enhance the appearance of what they are selling. Most of the regulars on this forum are here to actually HELP people make sure that they understand the perils out there in the real world. All you do is make posts with nothing in them because it makes you feel good.

You are the one who told the OP to go buy this tractor over the other one because "It is also like new".

Maybe you should tell us all just how YOU determine the true condition of a USED GT on the basis of a couple photos and a few well-chosen words by a Seller who wants the most dollars for his tractor? Crystal ball, maybe?

If you can't give out GOOD, LOGICAL advice then perhaps you should take your dog and pony show somewhere else. I would think that it must get pretty tiring for you having to constantly take your left foot out of your mouth so you can insert the right one, both on this list and on "that other one" .
 

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HeadCase For My Ingersoll
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I can't fault anything castaway has said in this thread. I'm always skeptical of pictures with equipment photographed wet. I analyze items in the same scrutinizing way when I see something in person that looks like it was just wiped down with an oily rag. Yes, he has gone into painful detail per usual. And on occasion he is known for advice bordering on berratement; But even on those occasions he has sound gems of insight to offer. This is no exception.
 

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Hey guys. I only see one link, is there supposed to be two?
That tractor (3014) is definitley wet, no doubt, but a bigger red flag to me is that the yard in the background looks really too small and too undercared for for this tractor to be feasable for the present owner to have.
What I mean is, the house looks a bit like it is in a subdivision and somewhat run down at that, someone with a machine like that would/should want to show off the yard they bought it for, this guy could just be flipping a tractor he knows nothing about.
At least that would stick out to me....Something just doesn't feel right about those pics.
Just an observation, not trying to get into this fight with yall...
 

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Here is the link to the other thread.

http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=147526


If it were me I would buy the 3016 simply because I already have a 446. :trink39:

It all depends on what you're going to be using the tractor for that should determine which one you buy. From the ads you posted they both appear to be in similar shape.
 

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Castoff, I'll travel down any road I choose to and a little man with a big mouth and even bigger ego is but a mear roadbump. You don't have the courage nor the authority to preach to me. I have no idea what your remarks about " Freddie & Other Forum " relate to nor do I care. The OP asked for opinions and my opinion was the 3014 is a nice tractor. Beyond that, your remarks to me are worthless as are you.

:thThumbsU
 

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Drew, if you check the main board, you will find an earlier thread by the OP that has a link to the 446. :trink40:

ah, thank you. Well, if it were my money I would ask the 446 seller how long he has had/known the machine and if he has receipts or service record for the maintenance and parts replaced.
then I would haggle the price if I could. He might have some wiggle room you could find to make it more attractive as a buyer.
the only reason I addressed the 446 first is because it feels to me that you are pretty interested in the high wheeler as your preference.
Not saying I would totally stay away from the 3014 but I would at least ask the same questions and ask for similar documentation for routine maintenace and parts replaced/repaired.
Some feel that the small wheel tractors have an advantage as mowing machines, and if that is all you are planning for either machine will do the job.
All I know is that my 224 gives a great cut and I don't really need the extra ground clearance for what i plan on using it for. You may have different needs.
I like the idea of asking whether or not you can have a dealer/mechanic take a look at both machines. You might have your purchase decided for you right then and there based on the response you get from the sellers.
Good luck and I hope you get the right one for your needs.
kungdrew
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks to everyone for their opinion and advise. I have not examined either machine in person yet, but plan to do so soon.

Another question: can the deck on the 3014 be converted to a mulching deck, through the addition of mulching blades or a mulching kit ? That appeals to me, and from my searches on this forum, it appears that a mulching setup is not available for the 446.

Having said that, I like the look of the 446, and the capability to add extra attachments appeals to me as well.

Thanks !
 

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Yes, a mulching kit is available for the RM deck on the 3014 but not for the 446. There are no mulching blades available for the 3014 nor for the 48 inch deck that I know is on the 446 under consideration.

Bagging attachments are available for both tractors but you must have the rear hydraulic PTO kit on the tractor to power the bagger. As someone who has both models, I've found no real need for a mulching set up nor a bagger if I mow regularly during the heavy growing season. At this time of year, the frequency tapers off as the grass begins to slow down.

You are the best judge of what your needs are as types of grass and growth patterns often vary widely. I don't know what local demand is for Case and Ingersoll tractors in Missouri but in some areas these tractors get sold with an hour of a C/L ad appearing. In other words, delay on your part could lead to disappointment. It's happened on this forum too many times for me to count.
 

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As Castoff notes, there is a mulching kit available for the RM44 and RM48 deck.

The kit includes baffles to create cylinders around the blades and proper, high lift, double cutting blades. The blades are available separately, but frankly don't provide a lot of benefit without closing up the deck.

Brian
 
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