[RichardP]

I hope the subject line says it all.

anyone who remembers my original thread may remember this comment:
Original Thread

I still think that you would be well-served by obtaining a Swisher because time is precious and the Swisher would help you make short work of the three acres. The Swisher is totally self-contained. Just check the oil, fill it with gas and hook it to the tow plate on the rear of the Case with a drop pin. You will get the hang of making the turns in no time at all.

from Caseguytoo.

I didn't forget about the idea of a swisher, only kept bouncing it around, now I wonder, can you set up one of the rear mowers to run offset as a swisher would?

I can imagine that you may need to do some fabricating, but thats not a problem. I now have a fabricating source.

Thank you all.


Thanks.

 

[Bart]

Yes, it can and has been done by Larry Entzel on the yahoo site and he posted photos. Basically all it requires is some swivel wheels to support the deck and a tow bar that can be locked in an offset position. Install a hydraulic motor to drive the deck.

 

[RichardP]

Isn't the rear mower already hydraulic? I can plug into my rear PTO?
Hence the idea was no new power source needed, just the mower, and set-up.

Off too see the files and to keep my eyes open for a rear finish mower.

 

[Caseguytoo]

I believe that the current MSRP for a hydraulic finishing mower from Ingersoll is about three grand.

In the mid-80's, Ingersoll offered a wing mower for these tractors. However, it had a 60 inch cut and was powered with its own engine. It had its own hydraulic cylinder that plugged into the PTO so that you could position the wing mower from the tractor seat.

 

[RichardP]

Found the pictures of Larry's "ditch mower" I wouldn't need mine offset that far - I was thinking offset enough so the cut lines line up.

Bart, CGT, could I get an older mower deck and retrofit the hydaulic motor on it - Was that what you were refering to in your initial response to me? If so, do I need to use a specific motor, (ie Case approved because of the oil) or could I use one off the shelf)?

This looks like it would be a fun, and rewarding project.

Thank you.

 

[Terry T]

Hey Guys,
I too have had tought along this line for extra mowing width.
I was wondering if a drive motor for a Case axle could be pulleyed to pull a deck or are they to slow.
Would a 222 pull the stock deck and a hydro ran deck at the same time?
I know it looked like Larry was doing only the Hydro mower in the pictures I saw.

 

[Ingersoll444]

I think a 222 would need a little more power to run a setup like that. I know my 14hp 444 is almost maxed out running a 48" deck, with the hydrobagger up any hills. I would think a hydro mower would take more power then the bagger.

 

[Terry T]

Thanks Paul,
Thats kinda what I figured but I knew you guys that have used these rigs for years would know there limits more than I would.
But it would run a hydro type mower fine by it's self I assume????

 

[Caseguytoo]

The hydraulic system in these tractors is certainly capable of powering a towed mower deck with no problems. The issue is one of finding a suitable hydraulic motor and then mounting it.

Mower decks are designed to spin at a certain RPM so that the blade tip speed is around 18,000 feet per minute. For this reason, the driven pulley that sits on the top of the center blade spindle on a 44" deck is smaller in diameter than the driven pulley on a 48" deck. The blades on a 44" deck are shorter in overall length than the two long ones on the 48" deck and the engine must spin those blades a bit faster to get the blade tip speed up to the 18,000 FPM mark.

So, in order to figure out which hydraulic motor you need, you first have to figure out how fast that motor has to spin. Choose the deck you intend to modify and then measure the driven pulley to get the diameter. Then measure the driving pulley that is part of the PTO clutch.

Assuming a WOT (wide open throttle) speed of 3600 RPM, you can use the math to determine what the original blade spindle speed was. If the pulleys are identical in size, then the spindle speed is 3600 RPM max. If the driven pully is smaller by a certain percentage, then the spindle speed is increased by that percentage. Conversely, if the driven pulley is larger by a certain percentage, then the spindle speed is likewise reduced.

The motor you choose should be a geroller type because these are high torque motors and very forgiving of oil contaminants. Most likely, your tractor's pump was designed to put out around 8.5 to 9.5 US gallons per minute at 3600 RPM. It will likely have an internal displacement of about .62 cubic inches per revolution. You should try and find a geroller motor that is no larger than this displacement so that it will spin at 3600 rpm when the engine is at WOT. This would allow you to move the center spindle of the deck to the right side and the right side spindle to the center.

You could then have a machine shop cut a longer threaded section on that spindle so that the lock nut could tighten directly against the lower belt pulley. Then have them reduce the upper part of the spindle to the same diameter as the output shaft of the motor so you can use a small LoveJoy coupler to join the motor directly to the spindle. You would also need a pump mount that would accept the motor on one end and would allow you to bolt the opposite end to a new mounting plate of 1/4" thick steel that would go over the lower deck pulley and be thru-bolted to the deck housing on three sides. Of course, this plate would have to have a hole bored in it to allow the spindle shaft to come through and perhaps the length of the spindle may have to be reduced to make it all work.

If the stock spindle proves to be too short, then any competent machine shop would have no problem whipping up one that was correct in all aspects.

The alternative to the above would be to use a geroller motor with a displacement of about 1.2 cubic inches with a long output shaft so you could put a large cogged pulley on it and use a self aligning bearing to support the end of the shaft. You would then use a cogged pulley that was half the diameter of the pulley on the motor and place it on the center spindle. This oversized geroller motor would spin at half the speed of the other motor and the belt drive would compensate for the slower turning motor.

My thoughts.

 

[Terry T]

CGT,
I beleave you have been ask this before.
That sounds like you have accounted for about everything.
Is there an actual formula that you plug in Pulley sizes Driving and driven,RPM's and blade length to get the tip speed in fpm??

 

[Caseguytoo]

CGT,
I beleave you have been ask this before.
That sounds like you have accounted for about everything.
Is there an actual formula that you plug in Pulley sizes Driving and driven,RPM's and blade length to get the tip speed in fpm??

Not that I'm aware of.

All of that goes with the "engineering" part of making an idea work. The tip speed isn't an issue that you need to concern yourself with because Case already dealt with that when they selected the pulley diameters on the deck. All you have to do is figure out how fast the deck spindles are rotating.

If the PTO pulley is 5" diameter and the deck pulley is 4", then the deck is being overdriven by 25%. (4 X 1.25 = 5) WOT is 3600 rpm so the spindle speed would be 25% more or 3600 x 1.25 = 4500 RPM.

If the PTO pulley is 4" and the deck pulley is 5", then the deck is being underdriven by 25% and the spindle speed is 2700 RPM (3600 X 75%)

One of the guys on the CCI forum made his own hydraulic finishing mower. I don't know if the photos are still there but you could search the archives to find the original posts about what he did.

 

[Terry T]

Thanks
This is good information

 

[1086]

CGT,
I beleave you have been ask this before.
That sounds like you have accounted for about everything.
Is there an actual formula that you plug in Pulley sizes Driving and driven,RPM's and blade length to get the tip speed in fpm??

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is a formula to calculate driven pulley rpm. (rpm x drive diameter divided by driven diameter)

 

[Terry T]

:bannana: Thanks,
I think that gets the same answer just a different way of getting there.
Again Good Stuff.

 

[Magnum RT]

I am not up on this subject, but I'm sure Tom could answer- how about a hydraulic driven deck from an AH tractor? Would seem to be the simplest answer.

 

[Terry T]

I'm pretty sure that would be pricey,but that would be a very good ideal.
That would have it all figured out already.
But there went the challenge.:biglaugh:

 

[Caseguytoo]

I am not up on this subject, but I'm sure Tom could answer- how about a hydraulic driven deck from an AH tractor? Would seem to be the simplest answer.

It would certainly work but as you well know Rol, he would have to add a case drain line to his tractor to run it. And then there is the cost of shipping such a deck and heaven forbid.... the cost of replacing that proprietary motor if it ever went totally south on him.

I think that Terry's plan is to try and do this as cheaply as possible, just like many of us. If he stumbled across an AHD deck in good working order for very little money within a 100 mile radius of where he lives, then I'd suggest that he give it some serious thought before dismissing it. In any event, your suggestion certainly has merit.

One other thing just came to mind and that would be pump size. The AHD's used a slightly larger pump in them but if Terry's pump is in good condition he should still be able to get that deck to spin up fast enough to give a good cut.

 

[Bart]

I am not up on this subject, but I'm sure Tom could answer- how about a hydraulic driven deck from an AH tractor? Would seem to be the simplest answer.

Some, if not all, of the attachments for the all hydraulic tractors have different motors to compensate for the higher gpm and pressure produced by the all hydraulic tractor pump. If you use an attachment designed for an all hydraulic tractor on a standard tractor the attachment will not run at the full design speed--not likely much of a problem with a tiller but could be a significant difference in a mower deck. You could make up the difference by changing out the pulleys to get the desired speed but personally I would go with a stock (cheaper) pump so that if I ever needed to replace it I could buy another off the shelf. Since I have a few extra decks laying around I have toyed with this idea myself and don't see any reason why it would be very difficult. Better yet put a 60" decks on each wing. I'd have to cut down a lot of trees to make this make sense which is why I haven't already pursued it.

 

[Terry T]

I know Richard P started this thread and I don't know about his thoughts but as for me CGT is on target insaying I would like to do something along this line as low cost as possible because I have a couple lots I keep cut that has a ditch for one and fairly large areas that a double width would be great.I don't get alot to for the jobs but it makes a little extra money.
I have a couple of decks off of some brand x's I would have already tried something if they were lefthanded.I am on the lookout for a Case deck in my area.I got one spoted I need to check on.

 

[RichardP]

Would a hydraulic drive motor off a 224 work for this project? ( I am asking from an unknown point as I don't have the deck (or the associated pully yet to determine the numbers that CGT mentioned above) Just notice I might be able to pick one up reasonable.
Thanks.