My Tractor Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
I break things
Joined
·
449 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hopefully this is in the right spot.

Working on refreshing a mini-tractor with my son. The 8 hp, vertical shaft 8 hp is not in a good way, and I am hesitant to tear into it to see if I can get it to run again. (low compression). It is an older motor, L-style/flat head. I cant find a replacement vertical shaft motor to save my life anywhere. On the other hand, I've seen the horizontal shaft motors all over the place on craigslist and facebook marketplace.

I'm sure its wishful thinking, but after looking at the rebuild kits, is it possible to convert a good running horizontal shaft to vertical shaft?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,869 Posts
Short answer... no, not really.

If you're willing to go that deep you should open up what you have and see. Might just need a light refresh, or maybe even as simple as a valve tweak.

Or, you could replace the engine with an off the shelf new unit.

Anything would be easier than trying to cobble something that was never meant to be.
 

·
I break things
Joined
·
449 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes what i figured but had to ask. Thanks.

This motor has been Frankensteined. I'm pretty sure its an 8 but the tin and the parts diagram don't match up right.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,254 Posts
Check surpluscenter.com. They have a large selection of both horizontal and vertical engines. I don't see any 8 hp there right now, but they usually add new ones every few weeks. The closest I see now are a few 5.5 hp and a couple of 11 hp.
 

·
I break things
Joined
·
449 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Gone that route as well as Harbor Freight. No luck. I could have sworn there was a small vertical shaft predator in the 8-10 hp range.
 

·
Senior MTF Poster
Joined
·
13,251 Posts
Surprising, Vertical shaft engines out number horizontal shaft engines by at least 20 to 1 here.
Walt Conner
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts
I've seen the opposite conversions done, vertical to horizontal, but like someone pointed out , in the used market verticals always outnumber horizontals by a large percentage, and are usually considerably less money. Doesn't seem practical.
 

·
20,000 +posts!
Joined
·
20,953 Posts
If I felt better I'd drag that Toro rear engined rider out of my shed and see if it will run and how it survived sitting for years...not able to do it now unfortunately,I was in the hospital on the 19th,had to go by ambulance my back & left hip and leg were hurting so badly and they haven't improved much..feeling worse,actually..:(
Hate to have you drive all the way to the Taunton MA area only to find out the engine isn't good any more.."ran great when parked",you know how that goes..

Have you called local mower repair shops ?..some in my area keep a stash of old mowers & tractors for parts and sell engines & transaxles off them --also guys on craigslist looking for scrap metal often get and scrap perfectly good things like the engine your looking for,might try putting a "wanted" ad on FB Marketplace and craigslist..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Gone that route as well as Harbor Freight. No luck. I could have sworn there was a small vertical shaft predator in the 8-10 hp range.
Harbor Freight is not offering any vertical shaft engines online by the looks of things, and the scuttlebutt on the internet says it's because of this:

https://www.trade.gov/press-release...exporters have,17.75 percent to 19.29 percent.

There was similar action against smaller vertical shaft engines, too:

U.S. Says China Guilty Of Small Engine “Dumping”
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,132 Posts
I agree with Walt vertical shaft engines are plentiful. Now just try finding a vertical shaft engine. Not quite as bad as finding chicken teeth though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,819 Posts
Most newer engine blocks are now cast for use in either horizontal or vertical orientation. You can see that by examining them closely. From the block, the build has to go one way or the other. Carbs, intakes, exhaust, oiling, drain plugs, you name it, are all selected and assembled for one orientation. I don't know if the cranks and their bearings are different to account for the vertical's downward pressure on that lower bearing and seal. Oiling would be a big challenge too.

I guess my point is, unless you are willing to begin with a basic block and assemble it with the necessary vertical parts, at who knows what cost, I would just keep after a replacement engine or rebuild the one you have.

I bet your son would learn a whole lot about engines by participating in a refresh or a rebuild of the existing engine. Remember, kids are kids for a relatively short time. Teach and enjoy them all you can. Sounds like a great project!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ariens93GT20

·
I break things
Joined
·
449 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
If I felt better I'd drag that Toro rear engined rider out of my shed and see if it will run and how it survived sitting for years...not able to do it now unfortunately,I was in the hospital on the 19th,had to go by ambulance my back & left hip and leg were hurting so badly and they haven't improved much..feeling worse,actually..:(
Hate to have you drive all the way to the Taunton MA area only to find out the engine isn't good any more.."ran great when parked",you know how that goes..

Have you called local mower repair shops ?..some in my area keep a stash of old mowers & tractors for parts and sell engines & transaxles off them --also guys on craigslist looking for scrap metal often get and scrap perfectly good things like the engine your looking for,might try putting a "wanted" ad on FB Marketplace and craigslist..
Hospital? No good. So sorry to hear. I hope that they figure out what is wrong and you start to feel better. We'll talk later when you start to feel better. Talk to you soon.
 

·
I break things
Joined
·
449 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
I have a couple possible hits lined up. One is off a rear motor Toro with a pulley swap/race mower. Might be good. The other is from a bone yard not terribly close, but Im willing to drive for a runner that is complete. At least that way I really know what I'm working with. I am suspicious of what exactly my engine is. If I can pull things together to make one good runner, I will be happy.

Found a few mowers with them, but they are all good machines going for $$ so they are off the table. Found one Tecumseh 8 hp vert with electric start. I considered it, but have had bad luck with Tecumseh powered machines over the years.
 

·
20,000 +posts!
Joined
·
20,953 Posts
If you come across any power washer vertical shaft engines ,those usually have a cast iron flywheel and can be used to power other things with no modifications,a 6.5HP or larger engine would likely be enough to propel the tractor and run the deck OK..I see "junk" pressure washers often on craigslist that "needs a new pump" ,but the engine runs good for free..

If I felt up to it I'd drag that Toro out and see if I could get it running,but not today...back ,hip & leg felt better for a few hours yesterday and overnight,now just sitting here is killing it again..I'll likely end up spending the day in bed again,like most every one the past 3 weeks..

BTW the hospital did NOTHING for me,in fact I came home in worse pain than before I went,they put me on a gurney two feet shorter than I am for 4 hours,which put me in such pain ,I couldn't stand it after the third hour,they were quick to get me "registered" and get my billing info and a quick preliminary exam,then abandoned me,it took an hour before they took me to X-ray dept,then back in the exam room to rot for 2 hours ,with NO one around,the place was deserted--they never asked me anything regarding covid or if I had been tested,had any symptoms (or offered to test me either)--one reason I had put off going to the ER so long,that hospital is a designated "covid" hospital and supposedly has part of it partioned off from the rest of the building...they also said "you don't need to wear the mask if no one else is in the room with you!"...I did NOT want to risk being exposed,as I have several conditions that make me vulnerable..

I had to struggle to get up off the gurney alone twice to try and pass enough urine to get it tested,and they never came to take blood until 10:30 am,after I arrived at 7 am..and that was after I pressed the "nurse" button,and no one came for almost 10 minutes..finally a nurse came,I told her I was leaving,I was not able to lay there any longer,plus I had not eaten anything since 7 pm the night before..she went and got me a 1/2 cup of orange juice with what was likely Miralax mixed with it and a blueberry muffin,I reluctantly drank it and ate some of the muffin,and she took the blood samples,and the doctor returned 20 minutes later with his "diagnosis" and scripts for prednisolone,lidocane patches,and 8 flexeril pills..all of which did squat to ease the pain for more than 2 days..

I also had the runs twice after I got home,and I feel that nurse spiked the OJ because I complained it was taking too long...I hate that hospital,its reputation is poor and only gets worse every time I've had to go there..
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,132 Posts
If you come across any power washer vertical shaft engines ,those usually have a cast iron flywheel and can be used to power other things with no modifications,a 6.5HP or larger engine would likely be enough to propel the tractor and run the deck OK..I see "junk" pressure washers often on craigslist that "needs a new pump" ,but the engine runs good for free..

If I felt up to it I'd drag that Toro out and see if I could get it running,but not today...back ,hip & leg felt better for a few hours yesterday and overnight,now just sitting here is killing it again..I'll likely end up spending the day in bed again,like most every one the past 3 weeks..

BTW the hospital did NOTHING for me,in fact I came home in worse pain than before I went,they put me on a gurney two feet shorter than I am for 4 hours,which put me in such pain ,I couldn't stand it after the third hour,they were quick to get me "registered" and get my billing info and a quick preliminary exam,then abandoned me,it took an hour before they took me to X-ray dept,then back in the exam room to rot for 2 hours ,with NO one around,the place was deserted--they never asked me anything regarding covid or if I had been tested,had any symptoms (or offered to test me either)--one reason I had put off going to the ER so long,that hospital is a designated "covid" hospital and supposedly has part of it partioned off from the rest of the building...they also said "you don't need to wear the mask if no one else is in the room with you!"...I did NOT want to risk being exposed,as I have several conditions that make me vulnerable..

I had to struggle to get up off the gurney alone twice to try and pass enough urine to get it tested,and they never came to take blood until 10:30 am,after I arrived at 7 am..and that was after I pressed the "nurse" button,and no one came for almost 10 minutes..finally a nurse came,I told her I was leaving,I was not able to lay there any longer,plus I had not eaten anything since 7 pm the night before..she went and got me a 1/2 cup of orange juice with what was likely Miralax mixed with it and a blueberry muffin,I reluctantly drank it and ate some of the muffin,and she took the blood samples,and the doctor returned 20 minutes later with his "diagnosis" and scripts for prednisolone,lidocane patches,and 8 flexeril pills..all of which did squat to ease the pain for more than 2 days..

I also had the runs twice after I got home,and I feel that nurse spiked the OJ because I complained it was taking too long...I hate that hospital,its reputation is poor and only gets worse every time I've had to go there..
*** sure hope my back problems don't go that way. Right now pain killers are just a mask so I can sleep nights or at least try to.
 

·
I break things
Joined
·
449 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
If you come across any power washer vertical shaft engines ,those usually have a cast iron flywheel and can be used to power other things with no modifications,a 6.5HP or larger engine would likely be enough to propel the tractor and run the deck OK..I see "junk" pressure washers often on craigslist that "needs a new pump" ,but the engine runs good for free..

If I felt up to it I'd drag that Toro out and see if I could get it running,but not today...back ,hip & leg felt better for a few hours yesterday and overnight,now just sitting here is killing it again..I'll likely end up spending the day in bed again,like most every one the past 3 weeks..

BTW the hospital did NOTHING for me,in fact I came home in worse pain than before I went,they put me on a gurney two feet shorter than I am for 4 hours,which put me in such pain ,I couldn't stand it after the third hour,they were quick to get me "registered" and get my billing info and a quick preliminary exam,then abandoned me,it took an hour before they took me to X-ray dept,then back in the exam room to rot for 2 hours ,with NO one around,the place was deserted--they never asked me anything regarding covid or if I had been tested,had any symptoms (or offered to test me either)--one reason I had put off going to the ER so long,that hospital is a designated "covid" hospital and supposedly has part of it partioned off from the rest of the building...they also said "you don't need to wear the mask if no one else is in the room with you!"...I did NOT want to risk being exposed,as I have several conditions that make me vulnerable..

I had to struggle to get up off the gurney alone twice to try and pass enough urine to get it tested,and they never came to take blood until 10:30 am,after I arrived at 7 am..and that was after I pressed the "nurse" button,and no one came for almost 10 minutes..finally a nurse came,I told her I was leaving,I was not able to lay there any longer,plus I had not eaten anything since 7 pm the night before..she went and got me a 1/2 cup of orange juice with what was likely Miralax mixed with it and a blueberry muffin,I reluctantly drank it and ate some of the muffin,and she took the blood samples,and the doctor returned 20 minutes later with his "diagnosis" and scripts for prednisolone,lidocane patches,and 8 flexeril pills..all of which did squat to ease the pain for more than 2 days..

I also had the runs twice after I got home,and I feel that nurse spiked the OJ because I complained it was taking too long...I hate that hospital,its reputation is poor and only gets worse every time I've had to go there..
**** that is rough no matter what way you look at it. Thanks for thinking of me. Dont worry about that Toro. Concentrate on getting better. When you are up to it let me know. It might be good to have a spare on the shelf to rebuild.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tractor-Holic

·
20,000 +posts!
Joined
·
20,953 Posts
*** sure hope my back problems don't go that way. Right now pain killers are just a mask so I can sleep nights or at least try to.
I hear ya..I'm lucky if I get 2-3 hours of broken "sleep" at night..

I've had scoliosis and anklosing Spondylitis since I was in my late teens and have been on several NSAID pain pills like Ibuprofin,and Tylenol-Codine since back in my 20's just to kill the pain enough to lead a somewhat normal life..
Did ok up until my late 40's,then things started deteriorating at a rather disturbing pace.

I wont take narcotic pills like oxycontin,they do kill pain better but they also "bind me up" and my stomach is in bad enough shape from taking NSAID's too many years at high doses now..don't like being "high" on pain pills either,life is tough enough sober..now that I'm in my 60's arthritis is taking a toll on all my joints and making life miserable..
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,132 Posts
I hear ya..I'm lucky if I get 2-3 hours of broken "sleep" at night..

I've had scoliosis and anklosing Spondylitis since I was in my late teens and have been on several NSAID pain pills like Ibuprofin,and Tylenol-Codine since back in my 20's just to kill the pain enough to lead a somewhat normal life..
Did ok up until my late 40's,then things started deteriorating at a rather disturbing pace.

I wont take narcotic pills like oxycontin,they do kill pain better but they also "bind me up" and my stomach is in bad enough shape from taking NSAID's too many years at high doses now..don't like being "high" on pain pills either,life is tough enough sober..now that I'm in my 60's arthritis is taking a toll on all my joints and making life miserable..
Yes life without Arthur would be nice if I could just pack his suitcase and send him home. Gabapentin has done wonders so far but not totally pain free. The loss of function really ticks me off sometimes though. Guess we will just have to resort back to our youth and take those day time naps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Hopefully this is in the right spot.

Working on refreshing a mini-tractor with my son. The 8 hp, vertical shaft 8 hp is not in a good way, and I am hesitant to tear into it to see if I can get it to run again. (low compression). It is an older motor, L-style/flat head. I cant find a replacement vertical shaft motor to save my life anywhere. On the other hand, I've seen the horizontal shaft motors all over the place on craigslist and facebook marketplace.

I'm sure its wishful thinking, but after looking at the rebuild kits, is it possible to convert a good running horizontal shaft to vertical shaft?
An alternate solution: 8hp verticals "used to be common on older riders" , but Not Much on regular mowers (too much hp),
maybe an old mower shop would have some relics (for cheap sitting around) ? Mostly found in rural areas & mower junkyards) - usually the old riders were rusted out - but engines were fine!?
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top