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Discussion Starter #1
I left my CoOp E4 (Buda 230 6cyl from Allis Chalmers Combine) sit for a year and somehow it gathered 3 coffee cans of water in the block, my guess is that since I do not have the correct 'spin on' style muffler and the current one is 'wedged' into the threaded hole that the water (rain/snow/sleet/hail) just hit the muffler and run straight in.

So I haven't even tried to spin over this tractor since last spring, thinking it would be in the same condition I left it in (with a coffee can over the muffler) and I got this surprise instead (yay)

I've been doing so reading on the internet and the methods that I've heard of so far are
1. Diesel down the cylinder holes and wait
2. Kerosene and transmission fluid concoction down the cylinders and wait for a week or 2 then light it with some sort of wick
3. completely fill the motor with the nastiest diesel oil that I can find and let the 'acid' in the used motor oil work on the rust

These next 2 both require that I take out all spark plugs then have an adapter made.

4. An adapter to use with a grease gun and just start filling a cylinder (one with the valves closed)
5. An adapter to use with the hydraulic system off of another tractor to force the cylinder down

And of course there are the destructive means
6. Hammer and block of wood
7. Fashion or use a real press to push down the cylinder

Right now I've got about 1/2cup of diesel in the cylinders for about the last 2 weeks. I tried to pull it (by myself) with my 856 and it's still stuck. I have about 20 gallons of used motor oil from tractors, lawnmowers, pickup and cars that I could completely fill the engine with.

Does anybody have any other methods? Have any of these proven to be more successful? I'm guessing after I get it free that I'll be tearing it down for rebuild anyhow?

Thanks,
-ron
 

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I don't know if this is possible as I am no mechanic but could you remove the front pulley, burn a 1/2" plate with the same bolt pattern as the pulley with an 8" extension on the plate to place a 2" pipe over for leverage and try hand cranking it.
 

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The Magnificent
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Back in the 1960s and 1970s, Coca-Cola was frequently used to free stuck engines. I recall an article in Popular Science' Say Smokey column, where a reader posted his success with the competitor, Pepsi, and asked Smokey had it been a Chrysler Lean Burn engine, should he have used Diet Pepsi. :ROF.
 

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a can of pb blaster in the cyls..is the water on top the pistons .or in the pan. if in the cyls get that out first. I would let it set a week.
 

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i have had good luck with evapo-rust on freeing up stuck / seized stuff from rust like the steering clutches on my d2 cat you could give that a try
 

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If this were my engine I would not fill it full of used oil. Diesel or otherwise.

You say it had water in the engine. Was this in the cylinders or bottom end. I'm betting in the cylinders as it ran in thru the exhaust stack. How did you get the water removed from the engine? If enough had accumulated to allow draining it from the crankcase then there is probably more in the cylinders yet. The addition of diesel on top of any water left in the cylinders will not do a lot of good and may actually aggravate the problem by acting as a seal to keep the moisture from evaporating.

First thing I would do would be to pull the head and really see what kind of mess I had. Probably the block is salvageable and maybe you will be able to get away with just getting it to turn over again but you really need, IMO, to open that engine up and do a through clean up job. If this were a gas engine it could be possible to get away with just getting it to roll over but a diesel is a different critter IME.

Like Kbeitz said in his post, PB Blaster and vibration. You could use most any tool you can get ahold of the engine with to rock the crank one way and the other. Plan on spending some time if it's really rusted up and it may come to the point of driving one or more of the pistons from the bore with a block of wood.

Others may know of a quick and easy solution but this would by my method.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #9
FWIW, the pictures are from 2004 when we first moved into our house and I put this tractor together for the first time. Dad had already perform the motor swap
it's a Buda Gas motor (230 or 262 I don't know for certain)
I drained the water by loosening the oilpan drain plug (but not removing it) and letting the water escape. You are most likely correct in that there is additional water in the cylinders still.

In regards to moving the pistons the opposite direction, I've put the tractor in 5th gear (it is a 6 speed, it won't stay in 6th though bad bearing inside transmission) and rocked the tractor back and forth by hooking the loader from the 856 to the loader on the E4 and basically I drug it about 15 feet in both directions with the front wheels off the ground to no avail.

I haven't driven this tractor for 2 years now, last year I went to start and the cylinders were hydro-locked. I pulled the plugs and cranked it over and it pushed water out.. all over the side of the motor, the hood, the frame, the back of the shop..and then I put in new plugs and tried a different distributor (I was having distributor problems)

So far what I've done this year
pulled the plugs
sprayed wd40 into the cylinder (about 5 days in a row)
With the plugs out (there was no rain predicted and it was hot)

Then I put about half a cup of diesel into the plug holes (and put the plugs back in)
after 5 days I tried again rocking it.

Then I drained the water (ya, I should have checked this first) and put another half cup of diesel into each cylinder. (and put the plugs back in) I haven't tried rocking it in about 2 weeks now. Some day this week I will go out and try it again.

Regarding the adapter and a piece of pipe on the crank.
There is a sheet metal cover over the flywheel and I have a 3ft and a 4ft prybar that I can use to try and pry on the bellhousing end of things, good idea I'll give that a try. I am a little concerned about damaging the ring gear teeth but this ring gear has 'bad spots' on it and is due for replacement anyhow so that is negligible.

Regarding Coke/Pepsi
Funny thing I was reading about people who say to use that method and one thing that struck me as odd was that some people said to use diet coke because it wouldn't have the same 'sticky residue' (sugar) left over after it works it's magic.

One other method I read about was
Seafoam apparently it is supposed to work wonders.

So here's my plan
Take a 60 cc syringe and about 1.5ft of clear tubing and suck all liquid from the cylinders
locate some PB blaster and put that down through the spark plug holes to soak everything
Let that sit for a few days to a week with the plugs in the holes to prevent any additional water
Remove the flywheel cover
Pry the flywheel a little bit each direction to see if things losen up

I do not think that I will be pulling the head at this time and here's why.. Dad said that a neighbor has 2 running (retired) Allis Chalmers combines with this same motor and he thinks that I can pick them up for $100-150/each. At this point I'd rather just buy a running motor and put it in if I can't get mine going. Long term plans call for a complete rebuild but I want to be able to use this tractor this winter still and my budget does not allow for a full blown rebuild right now.

The other concern with rebuilding it is that I want to find out what's allowable for antique tractor pulling. I've subscribed to a cockshutt forum and am trying to identify all of my parts before I get started (I've got 2 other motors, which are both stuck as well) but I don't know if they are 230, 262, or 273 cubic inches. Since rebuilding costs the same regardless of displacement I want to go as large as vintage tractor pulling will let me.

Thanks for the advice, I'll let you know how my plan works out.
-ron
 

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Don't know how I came to the conclusion this was a diesel, especially with the picture of the carb you posted. Dumb!

Really sounds like a motor swap would be the way to go since you have access to a couple of good ones. At those prices it would be way cheaper then a rebuild if they suit your needs.

With that engine sitting for two years with water in it like that I really suspect it will need a major overhaul. Even if you get it to rolling over and started I would expect major problems in short order.

Just my opinion and I could be wrong.

Mike
 

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Ihave heard of using cokecola,diet pepsi before but Ihave had good results with seafoam and pb blaster down theplug holes then fired up the rose bud on my cutting torch then heated up the cylinders, let it cool down then repeat again using a block of wood and hammer tapping the block at the same time, this worked for our old ford 850 4 cyl,stills runs to this day but does smoke some, killed the rings Iam thinking.
 

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We had several "seized" engines we got to run at the junkyard I worked at,by filling them with Marvel Mystery Oil,or Automatic tranny fluid,cut with kerosene or even gas,we had to let them soak for days to weeks too,the boss always said they didn't seize in a day,and wont free up in one day either!..

One truck engine we had (a straight 6 old Chevy like a 216) was seized up tight,but had run good when it first came in,and a customer wanted it bad,said if we could get it running he'd gladly give 300 bucks for it,so we filled it with ATF and let it soak several weeks,but it refused to budge when we tried to use the starter,or a pry bar on the balancer..we were about to give up and call it scrap,when the boss had an idea--using our "torch truck",he hooked the two heater hoses from the thrucks engine to the ones on the seized 6 cylinder,and ran the truck for a good half hour,till the block was as hot as it would get (the temp gauge actually read halfway!)--we tried prying on the ring gear teeth with a pry bar and it broke free!..then after much rocking back and forth we got it to spin over a full revolution,after that the starter was able to whip it over,and a ton of crud pumped out of the spark plug holes..after we put the plugs back in it fired right up,and smoked like crazy for a good 15 minutes till all the oil we put in the cylinders had burned off...we sold it and never heard from the guy who bought it,so I assume it ran good for him..sounded great once we got it started..

Other vehicles we weren't so delicate with ,we towed them behind the ramp truck and popped the clutch in second gear,that usually broke them loose...that dont work so well on a tractor,the super low gearing makes it hard to turn the engine by the wheels and axles often snap first..
 

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Discussion Starter #13
It hasn't been running in 2 years, but I had it spinning over and building oil pressure last summer (so it's not quite as hopeless as it sounds) and before that I hadn't run it for a year.

I was thinking the same thing about the motor swapping.. even if I bought the pair of them at the higest estimated price ($300) that is a steal for a pair of running motors no matter who you are. The problem then becomes time.. The combines are 90 miles from my house. I can sneak out to the shop every once in a while (2 kids under 2yrs old) but driving an hour and a half each way becomes a constraint, which is why I'm trying to 'free' mine first before pursuing that route. I will have to make a decision and pony up some cash real soon though I don't want to be working outside in November (Novembrrrr).

-ron
 

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I'd pull the head and get after it.. the cold temps are coming man.. its been 34 here in the morning.. I'm 18 hours north west of North Dakota... That reminds me its time to slide my ole 70 diesel back into the garage..
 

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Diet Coke works wonders , I added a little lye to help eat the rust and it will mix with the water thats in the cylinders and down the piston sides. Don't let it sit to long it works fast and you want to get it cleaned out as soon as it breaks free, 1 to 2 days. then run acetone and ATF mixed, down the carb as it runs to free up the rings. when in storage plug the exaust at the manafold and disconect the pipe.
 

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I bought a Gilbson snowblower last winter that sat and sat for who knows. The briggs was seized. I mixed up 50/50 of ATF and acetone poured it down the cylinder and let it sit a day or so. I got the pry-bar and rubber mallet and worked the flywheel back and forth a bit and let sit. The next day it again and she freed!! She runs now!

Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I won't go so far as to say 'it is free', but I can happily report that it is mo longer frozen. I did not get around to doing anything, just left the diesel in there from before and tonight I pulled cover off the flywheel and pried. I moved it 2 ring gear teeth in one direction, tomorrow before going to Rollag I will work on a full rotation.

-ron
 

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Park it in gear on the steepest hill you can find and let gravity work for you. If you dont have a hill, a socket and long breaker bar on the balancer nut with a heavy weight tied to the end. It will give you a constant pull while you are not there. Again let gravity help you.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
It has a block heater (hasn't been used in a few years) but I'll plug that in when I get home. In regards to a hill, I've got one that leads down to a drainage ditch and the only other 'hill' in my area is the above ground drain field (mound system) and I don't think I should use that..

The problem with the hill into the drainage ditch is that I'm going to need to be sure that I have a way that will stop the tractor once it starts moving..and the harder issue.. convince the wife that it would look trashy having 2 tractors parked in the pasture with a chain between them..

back to my previous message about it not being 'stuck' I got it to rotate about 1/3rd of a rotation using a prybar on the flywheel teeth and then it stopped again. I put some wd40 in the cylinders and headed to rollag I'll try going the other direction another day soon.

-ron
 
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