My Tractor Forum banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello, I am stumped and would appreciate some advice.

Yesterday I was using my Ingersoll 4016 in the yard (running just fine) and I ended up running it very low on fuel. The only gas I had was old and I ended up just putting a small amount in it to get the tractor back up to the shop. When I restarted the tractor, it was running OK, after a minute or 2 it was a little rough probably due to the old fuel. Just as I pulled into the shop, the tractor died. (the engine has 850 hrs on it)

I went and got some new fuel, drained the tank, took the top off the carb and cleaned it out. Turned the engine over until clean fuel came into the carb, then I put the top of the carb back together. It did not start, so I pulled the plugs and dried them out and also checked to be sure that both had spark, no problem. Now it still does not start.

I've already kicked myself for putting the old gas in it, Now what??
(Sorry for the long post, I wanted to provide enough info)
 

·
4K Poster!!!
Joined
·
4,503 Posts
Try new plug(s). Even though the old ones look good and spark, I have found that to work. I have an ancient Wisconsin like that. I try to start it for a while, then change the plug, even though it looks fine, and it starts. Next time, I try to start it for a while, and put the other plug back in, and it starts. It seems to have to do with the plug sitting around on the bench for a while. Strange, but true (cue eerie music....)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Try new plug(s). Even though the old ones look good and spark, I have found that to work. I have an ancient Wisconsin like that. I try to start it for a while, then change the plug, even though it looks fine, and it starts. Next time, I try to start it for a while, and put the other plug back in, and it starts. It seems to have to do with the plug sitting around on the bench for a while. Strange, but true (cue eerie music....)
Thanks for the reply. I looked for the old plugs that I replaced last year but I must have thrown them out. I'll go pick up a new pair and give it a try.

Craig
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I just installed new plugs and they both have spark. The engine turns over without any sign of trying to fire up. I took off the air cleaner and put a few drops of good fuel down the carb, still nothing.

Now I'm really stumped...
 

·
4K Poster!!!
Joined
·
4,503 Posts
Back to basics - do you have compression, spark *at the right time*, and fuel mixture?
When you take the plugs out, are they wet or dry? If they are dry, you may not be getting fuel into the cylinders. Putting some fuel down the carb throat should have gotten you at least some pops, so it's probably not a fuel problem.
Also check the obvious - safety switches.
I'd check for compression first - perhaps a valve seat came loose after being stopped suddenly while hot. Just a guess, but you say it started running rough.
You are missing one of the three - fuel, spark, compression. All you have to do is find out which one it is...Frustrating, I know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Back to basics - do you have compression, spark *at the right time*, and fuel mixture?
When you take the plugs out, are they wet or dry? If they are dry, you may not be getting fuel into the cylinders. Putting some fuel down the carb throat should have gotten you at least some pops, so it's probably not a fuel problem.
Also check the obvious - safety switches.
I'd check for compression first - perhaps a valve seat came loose after being stopped suddenly while hot. Just a guess, but you say it started running rough.
You are missing one of the three - fuel, spark, compression. All you have to do is find out which one it is...Frustrating, I know.
OK, I have found the problem and I'm still not clear on how it happened...

I did not have any compression so I pulled the valve covers. 1 push rod from each cylinder had come off the rocker. All 4 push rods are straight, nothing is bent. (I bought this tractor about 11 months ago and I have never pulled a valve cover on it.) I re-assembled the rocker arms and adjusted the valves. turned the engine over several times and checked the adjustment again. It had over 100 lbs of compression in each cylinder and it started right up after I put the plugs in. After the engine was warmed up, I ran it around a little and them mowed with it for about 45 minutes before it got dark.

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions... it looks like "Compression" is still a very important factor...:thThumbsU
 

·
4K Poster!!!
Joined
·
4,503 Posts
Glad you got it going!
Very strange, I can't imagine what would cause that.
And, thanks for getting back with the solution you found. It's always nice to hear the end of the story!
Happy mowing! I'll be mowing tomorrow, and thinking about the snow to come while I'm out there in the sun. I gave my snowblower a glance today, winter is starting to look just a bit attractive at this point...
 

·
Senior MTF Poster
Joined
·
13,095 Posts
"Very strange, I can't imagine what would cause that."

A lot of people have been claiming that ethanol fuel is causing the valves to stick. It is my guess that the old fuel you put in caused the valves to stick letting the push rods drop out. IF it were mine, I would use some Marvel Mystery Oil per instructions on the can for a tank or two of fuel.

Walt Conner
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Glad you got it going!
Very strange, I can't imagine what would cause that.
And, thanks for getting back with the solution you found. It's always nice to hear the end of the story!
Happy mowing! I'll be mowing tomorrow, and thinking about the snow to come while I'm out there in the sun. I gave my snowblower a glance today, winter is starting to look just a bit attractive at this point...
Fcubman,

Do you ever think about mowing the grass when you are in the middle of winter blowing snow?

I just need a mower here in Georgia... (although I would like to get a 3pt hitch and a tiller...) Winter here means that the grass does not need cutting until spring. I'm in the Northeast Georgia Mountains and we get snow (maybe and inch or two ) about 2 or 3 times a year and if it does stick, it's not here very long. It is funny here in the South, if they call for "SNOW". people run and buy up all the bread and milk from the local stores.

I had a 1965 JD 110 with a 36" blower when I lived in Indiana for a few years. It was a great old tractor and it did a good job. ( My wife could not understand WHY I would buy an old tractor like that...)

I'm sure that you will be seeing your fair share of snow before long, enjoy the mowing and thanks for the help...

Craig
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
"Very strange, I can't imagine what would cause that."

A lot of people have been claiming that ethanol fuel is causing the valves to stick. It is my guess that the old fuel you put in caused the valves to stick letting the push rods drop out. IF it were mine, I would use some Marvel Mystery Oil per instructions on the can for a tank or two of fuel.

Walt Conner
Walt, Thanks for the suggestion, I'll give that a try.

Craig
 

·
4K Poster!!!
Joined
·
4,503 Posts
Walt, that makes sense.

NH, yeah, right about the beginning of February, I'm tired of the snow and cold, and long for the acres of grass to mow again. Winter is cheaper for gasoline: in summer I burn a couple of gallons of gas each mowing session, and each session does not cover 1/3 of what I mow. I burn about 6 gallons a week in mowing season.
I have a 54" deck, anything bigger would be too awkward in other places. The cure, I guess, would be buying yet another tractor. But, I'm out of places to stash them, and leaving it outside is not an option.
Well, gotta have something to complain about, I guess. Up in New England, we can always complain about the weather. And, if we don't like the weather, wait 10 minutes and it will change.
We get the "bread and milk"panic whenever they call for snow up here, too. My pet peeve is the idiots with 4WDs who think they are immune to the laws of nature. There are always rollovers and crashes of SUVs every storm. Darwinism in action.
 

·
The voice of reason !
Joined
·
2,720 Posts
Walt, Thanks for the suggestion, I'll give that a try.

Craig
The Mavel oil is a great suggestion and I use it all the time what can it hurt right ?

Now as to why your pushrods came out, I have a 28Q777 Vanguard and it had the same no compression problem.

But didn't drop the pushrods like yours but the reason it had no compression according to Briggs was that the built in comp release was sticking so I followed their repair instructions cleaned the rockers, adjusted the valves and it runs great now.

I wonder if this is what happened to yours ?
 

·
4K Poster!!!
Joined
·
4,503 Posts
I'd like to have some livestock here. This used to be a horse farm, so the fields are well fertilized. We also have coyotes, foxes, raccoons, etc, and lots of woods for them to hide in. We'd have to be very vigilant for predators. There are other houses around, too near to allow shooting legally. We do have some chickens, but they are kept in a pretty secure coop. That said, there are several farms around here that have miniature goats, which are quite appealing. Now that I'm retired, I just might work up the energy to fence in an area for some goats. Then, get the goats. Then, get a vet, food, shots, guard dog,.....or maybe not.
When the horses were here, they kept the fields trimmed nicely, including the neighbor's lot. That neighbor has moved on, and the new owners are just letting it go to weeds. The weeds are trying to take over my fields, so letting them go natural is not a good idea.
I do enjoy my seat time while mowing, so it's not all bad.
Besides,if we got meat animals, they would get named, and who could eat Billy the Goat? Or Elsie the Cow?
Milk goats are getting pretty popular around here, and there are two farms that sell goat products like cheese, soap, and milk. So, it's a possibility.
I could make a small fortune in farming! (If I started with a large fortune, that is...)

On topic comment: My Conquest has a 22HP Vanguard, 220 hours, runs like a top. The only thing I had to do to it was adjust the choke cable, as it wasn't closing the choke all the way. Oil and filter changes every 50 hours, adjust valves yearly. I have pulled the tin a couple of times to check for debris in the fins. I haven't found more than literally 1 or 2 blades of grass in there. The debris management system of this engine is great.
Hoping that I haven't jinxed myself...good day!
 

·
The voice of reason !
Joined
·
2,720 Posts
Walt, that makes sense.

NH, yeah, right about the beginning of February, I'm tired of the snow and cold, and long for the acres of grass to mow again. Winter is cheaper for gasoline: in summer I burn a couple of gallons of gas each mowing session, and each session does not cover 1/3 of what I mow. I burn about 6 gallons a week in mowing season.
I have a 54" deck, anything bigger would be too awkward in other places. The cure, I guess, would be buying yet another tractor. But, I'm out of places to stash them, and leaving it outside is not an option.
Well, gotta have something to complain about, I guess. Up in New England, we can always complain about the weather. And, if we don't like the weather, wait 10 minutes and it will change.
We get the "bread and milk"panic whenever they call for snow up here, too. My pet peeve is the idiots with 4WDs who think they are immune to the laws of nature. There are always rollovers and crashes of SUVs every storm. Darwinism in action.
Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, we get the same thing here as well.

I really love how the SUV'ers say "I can go anywhere and at normal dry road speed too !" Yeah until it's time to stop !

Thats when if no ones hurt I laugh my butt off at them.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top