[Ctractor]

Does anybody run av gas in their tractors or other equipment? My father said that some of the guys at his work run it in their machines and run exellent. Also, its supposed to never go bad and not have any ethanol in it which would be great so I don't have to keep replacing eat up fuel lines and cleaning carbs. But I would like to know if it effects the engine in any harmful ways before I use it.:trink40:

 

[SonnyT]

I don't. 2 reasons.
1) Still not a problem to get non-ethanol gas in Kansas for $3.24 a gal.
2) Local Av gas is $5.48 a gallon.
2 good reasons I don't use it.:fing32:

 

[THEPATRIOT]

I use it at times,great for a machine you don't use much.Esp. a generator.

 

[Stan the Air Man]

Just follow the directions of the manufacturer. Manufactures spend a lot of money on research and development, testing and engineering to determine the best fuels and lubricants for their equipment.

On the other hand using what is not recommended fuels the economy, through repairs, replacement parts and engines. :duh:

SonnyT gave the best reason not to use it $$$$. :thThumbsU

Ctractor - That 20HP Kohler in your 08' Craftsman YS4500 has some specific lubricant needs. Use oil other than recommended and the engine will let you know you need to follow their recommendations.

 

[Walt 2002]

" Also, its supposed to never go bad and not have any ethanol in it which would be great so I don't have to keep replacing eat up fuel lines and cleaning carbs"

Still amazes me, were the heck do you guys get your gasoline? Only ethanol has been available in our area for 12 years or more, I never take any precautions, never have had any trouble that I could possibly trace to using ethanol, I store it all winter, have a 60 year old Wisconsin engine that doesn't know the difference and no carb problems with it.

Only time I ever had a problem was when I used Sta-bil after reading a bunch of scare messages here. Turned out the Sta-bil was out of date and really gummed things up. Never again.

Walt Conner

 

[hodge]

" Also, its supposed to never go bad and not have any ethanol in it which would be great so I don't have to keep replacing eat up fuel lines and cleaning carbs"

Still amazes me, were the heck do you guys get your gasoline? Only ethanol has been available in our area for 12 years or more, I never take any precautions, never have had any trouble that I could possibly trace to using ethanol, I store it all winter, have a 60 year old Wisconsin engine that doesn't know the difference and no carb problems with it.

Only time I ever had a problem was when I used Sta-bil after reading a bunch of scare messages here. Turned out the Sta-bil was out of date and really gummed things up. Never again.

Walt Conner

Maybe gas/ethanol/additive mixtures are different in different regions. I have seen the difference in my machinery when I switched back to ethanol-free gas. I had to rebuild the carb on my snowblower and my generator every year, so that they would run without being on choke. I haven't had to do that the last two years, since running ethanol-free gas.

When I was growing up, my best friend's family ran the local airport. They ran everything on av gas. The machinery ran fine, but they always had problems if they switched back to regular gas. Myself, I didn't see a performance difference in their mowers, chainsaws, weedeaters, vehicles, etc., over the stuff I used at home (regular gas). I don't see an advantage that overcomes the cost difference.

 

[HydroHarold]

If my GX got a dose of "Av Gas" it would probably cause it's gall bladder to fail! Too rich for it. I have "0"(zero) problems with gas with not only alcohol in it but little black things in it as well. With Stabil use and regular filter changes it isn't worth the extry bucks for me either!

 

[TooTall999]

I'm lucky, Mills Fleet Farm here has two grades of non-ethanol gas available, 89 and 91 octane. The ethanol free 89 octane is a whopping 5 cents a gallon more than other places charge for their 89 octane with 10% ethanol. I only run ethanol free gas in my truck, the wife's car, and all my power equipment.

 

[Rog02]

OK, time for some serious discussion about av-gas.

Aviation fuel is refined to a seperate standard than mo-gas in that if it does not contain lead additives it is 80 octane RON, which is well below the recommended octane rating for small gas engines and WILL detonate and cause major engine damage. 80 octane is red in color.

Next grade up is 110 LL (low lead). The lead content is higher than any of the mo-gas formulas and the lead will leave deposits in the combustion chamber and WILL foul the spark plug. Personal experience with a Honda genset that we used at airshows, that was run consistently on 110LL, is that a couple of times per airshow season, I would have to pull the head and scrape the lead deposits. It would get so bad that the piston would strike the head and the engine would stop. The lead deposits build up in aircraft engines as well but the mandated inspections and preflight checks tend to keep the problems down to a minimum. The deposits can be so bad as to create a tinking noise when you pull the lower spark plugs at 100 hour/annual time and hear the little lead dingle berries fall into the lower cowling.

As for fuel in the shop at the "Goat Pasture"? I have jumped up to 89 octane unleaded, which when sourced from one supplier here in town does not contain any alcohol. I store it in CLEAN containers with tight sealing lids and have no trouble in keeping it for 6 months without losing quality. I know as I have tested for Reed Vapor Pressure and specific gravity the same as we do for race car fuel and av-gas.

Since the test for Reed Vapor Pressure and specific gravity require equipment that tends to be a bit too costly for the average weekend warrior, the only real practical test the average user can perform is for alcohol content. See my post on that here http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=146217.

Oh yeah. I do happen to hold an FAA Airframe and Powerplant Mechanics ticket and have for the past 40 plus years as well as turn wrenches on sprint cars and modifieds just for giggles and grins.

 

[marlboro180]

Rog, I always appreciate your input on fuel talk. :fing32:

 

[LilysDad]

OK, time for some serious discussion about av-gas.

Aviation fuel is refined to a seperate standard than mo-gas in that if it does not contain lead additives it is 80 octane RON, which is well below the recommended octane rating for small gas engines and WILL detonate and cause major engine damage. 80 octane is red in color.

How is the 80 octane used in aircraft engines? Or is this used for jet fuel?

 

[rwall10597]

1990 I worked at an airport for the summer. We ran everything on 100 octane low lead, which if I recall was a fortune at $1.94. Everything worked, and I don't know how to describe it, but everything seemed to have issues, like it was running too hot or something. The vehicles, tractors, the small equipment, everything just wasn't quite right.

Just north of Atlanta now, I run 93 octane in every thing which I don't think is supposed to have any ethanol in it. With the lower octane its really hard to find.

 

[CP7]

Ethanol sucks.

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

 

[Stan the Air Man]

Here are a few tidbits:

Types of Avgas:

http://www.shell.com/home/content/aviation/products/fuels/types/avgas/

http://www.experimentalaircraft.info/homebuilt-aircraft/aviation-fuel.php

Availability and price of Avgas by zip code:
http://www.airnav.com/fuel/local.html

Future of 100LL Avgas:
http://www.epi-eng.com/aircraft_engine_products/demise_of_avgas.htm

Shelf life of avgas is about one year:
http://www.generalaviationnews.com/2005/12/16/what-is-the-shelf-life-of-avgas/

From my experience STA-BIL works well when mixed at correct ratio but when mixed too strong it can do what it is suppose to prevent, gum a carburetor.

I try not to use ethanol based fuels but it is sometimes impossible not to. I have replaced all fuel lines, etc. with ethanol compatible parts.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/news/ethanol/overview/index.htm

http://news.consumerreports.org/hom...our-lawn-gear-you-can-skip-itfor-a-price.html

 

[OldBuzzard]

How is the 80 octane used in aircraft engines? Or is this used for jet fuel?

80 Octane was used in the older aircraft engines.

I owned a 1946 Cessna 140 that used 80 Octane. On two occasions while on cross country flights, I stopped at airports that didn't have 80 Octane available, and had to use 110LL. The old Continental DID NOT like the 110LL, and in each case when I got home, it needed the plugs cleaned.

Using AvGas in our Lawn/Garden equipment just isn't worth either the cost or aggravation.

 

[JayC]

Does anybody run av gas in their tractors or other equipment? My father said that some of the guys at his work run it in their machines and run exellent. Also, its supposed to never go bad and not have any ethanol in it which would be great so I don't have to keep replacing eat up fuel lines and cleaning carbs. But I would like to know if it effects the engine in any harmful ways before I use it.:trink40:

AV gas is leaded, so it will destroy the valves in modern high performance engines. However, I think it'll be OK in a lawnmower engine - they're pretty low-tech. You will probably get a little less power and reduced hours/gal, but it might hold up better in storage.

It might be easier to drain the gas out of your equipment before you put it up. That's what I do.

JayC

 

[orangaemen1]

anybody use startron, does it really do whats advertized???


Jim

 

[wally2q]

I'm with Walt on this one.

 

[Walt 2002]

"AV gas is leaded, so it will destroy the valves in modern high performance engines. "

?? Valves is WHY gasoline had lead in it.

Walt Conner

 

[TUDOR]

AV gas is leaded, so it will destroy the valves in modern high performance engines..

JayC

It seems that I recall that that was the most used argument against no-lead gas when it was first mandated for automotive use. Small engine owners were also upset, even though the recommended fuel for those engines was no-lead in the first place.

The concern was that the lack of lubrication that lead supplies for the valves would cause the valves to burn out. Valve and valve seat metallurgical modifications were made in the automotive sector at the time to deal with this problem.