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Another Angle of the Dump question.

785 Views 26 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  Dave55
I had a small business that required a 7x12 dump trailer. After retirement I didn't need that big a dump trailer and I traded it for a smaller 5x10. Well that wasn't great even though I got a couple thousand with the trade. My first and most important need to do is replace that ram with one that moves the dump angle where I don't have to pull out half of the load. Mine currently is probably 20 to 30 degrees.
My Question:
Where can I find a company that can recommend a ram (cylinder?) with a longer throw. OR- who can advise me on changing the fittings to increase the angle. I've done a lot of reading on the subject and most everything I can find is comparing the scissor, ram and telescopic type of dump mechanisms. The other articles I find are engineering math. No thanks, someone out there is paid to do that. I'd like to reuse the existing ram with frame mods or replace the ram with longer throw. I live in Sherwood, Oregon. The trailer is used for smaller loads < than 4 yards.

Ideas?
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Has Tractor Supply got anything that might work?
I'll check them out, thanks.
Has Tractor Supply got anything that might work?
Are you sure the lift mechanism will work with a longer cylinder? It has to both fit in the available space when retracted, and also not hit anything when extended and the scissor still work properly.

Someone did the math on that setup, in particular, on the scissor mechanism, so that it uses that particular cylinder, for both the weight being raised and the angle.

You might consider at least checking that the scissor itself can support raising the bed higher, by raising the bed, supporting it somehow, disconnecting the cylinder, and then trying to raise it further, perhaps using a winch or comealong.

Moving the attachment points of the scissor mechanism towards the pivot point would do the job, but doing that will reduce the lifting capacity (by how much is determined by how much it is moved, but that's a math problem), and may also be a structural issue, and at least needs someone who can weld properly to reattach it at it's new location, as there is a lot of force involved lifting the bed (much more than the 4T or so that the load may weigh).
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I'm not sure what the proper word is. Ram? It is a single piston that rises the bed of the trailer not a scissor type. Anyhoo, I thought If I purchased a longer Ram? and changed the attachment point I could use the existing hydraulic mechanism to push the new cylinder. Perhaps I'm looking at a complete change or just keep pulling that stuff out. In many cases even driving forward doesn't release the debris.
Are you sure the lift mechanism will work with a longer cylinder? It has to both fit in the available space when retracted, and also not hit anything when extended and the scissor still work properly.

Someone did the math on that setup, in particular, on the scissor mechanism, so that it uses that particular cylinder, for both the weight being raised and the angle.

You might consider at least checking that the scissor itself can support raising the bed higher, by raising the bed, supporting it somehow, disconnecting the cylinder, and then trying to raise it further, perhaps using a winch or comealong.

Moving the attachment points of the scissor mechanism towards the pivot point would do the job, but doing that will reduce the lifting capacity (by how much is determined by how much it is moved, but that's a math problem), and may also be a structural issue, and at least needs someone who can weld properly to reattach it at it's new location, as there is a lot of force involved lifting the bed (much more than the 4T or so that the load may weigh).
What you would need is a 2 stage cylinder the same overall length of your old cyl. It would give you the extra stroke length in the package size of your original cyl.
If you're going to play with hydraulics, one thing is guaranteed, you are going to play with formulae and associated numbers.

You won't be hauling 4 cu-yd without sides at least 3' tall in a 5' x 10' dump box.

Figuring out the cylinder volume needed is easy. Figuring out everything else gets complicated really quick.
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A 2-stage cylinder is unlikely to be the answer for this application...

IMHO:

A longer cylinder is probably also not the answer, as typically the scissor mechanism is designed to operate with a cylinder of a specific length. I suggested a test that would tell you if it would.

Moving the existing mechanism closer to the pivot would be better, but the cost is reduced capacity.

A new scissor mechanism, with a longer range of motion and/or higher rating, mounted at the right spot, would be IMHO the best, most correct way of doing it. But also the most expensive.

For all the the solutions, doing a bunch of math to work out lengths, mounting points, and resulting load capacity will be cheaper and faster than trial and error with buying hydraulic parts and seeing if they work.
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After rereading the OP he did not say weather his trailer has a scissor linkage, but did suggest a longer cylinder. If i read it wrong, bad on me.
Yes I haul less than 4 yards but I do have 12" of wood sides above the 2' walls. I like to think of things on paper before actually trying changes. Sounds like from the comments buying a new ram is not the solution.
If you're going to play with hydraulics, one thing is guaranteed, you are going to play with formulae and associated numbers.

You won't be hauling 4 cu-yd without sides at least 3' tall in a 5' x 10' dump box.

Figuring out the cylinder volume needed is easy. Figuring out everything else gets complicated really quick.
No worries, I'm the one who doesn't know what I'm doing. LOL
After rereading the OP he did not say weather his trailer has a scissor linkage, but did suggest a longer cylinder. If i read it wrong, bad on me.
Just looked at a few trailers online and a few have a straight lift system, Big Tex is one of them but doesn't give a dump angle. Hopefully OP will give more info.
No issues, Bro.
The o.p. did mention "scissor" in his original post, but it isn't clear what kind of lift the trailer currently has.
Mine was a one or three off allegedly built by a manufacturer but no such business exists anymore. The address came back to a semi rural area in Gresham, Oregon. I think the guy wanted to build trailers and gave it a go. Not terrible but some minor irritating issues. No D rings, skimpy welding, low angle for the box. Going to have to do some rebuilding on this one.
Yow, hopefully it's not because the manufacturer was sued out of existence because the trailer was poorly designed/built and some accident happened because of it...
Less than or equal to 4 yards is not much info.
4 yards of brush/trash is a lot different than 4 yards of sand as an example
Reading between the lines I am guessing brush/trash is your payload, having to drag it out.
So I am going out on a limb and also guessing we are talking 3 or 4 thousand pounds worth of load versus over 16000 pounds of sand for a load.

A picture of what you have for a lift setup now would help with any suggestions.
Also is the current setup power up and gravity down or is it power up and down.
Power down would eliminate a telescopic cylinder as an option.
Power down also reduces the need for a large tank since both sides of the piston have fluid on them.

I will also say a cylinder with a longer stroke or a telescopic cylinder is going to take more fluid to extend, so most likely a larger hydraulic tank would be in order.
Yep, I'll get a shot of it tomorrow.
Less than or equal to 4 yards is not much info.
4 yards of brush/trash is a lot different than 4 yards of sand as an example
Reading between the lines I am guessing brush/trash is your payload, having to drag it out.
So I am going out on a limb and also guessing we are talking 3 or 4 thousand pounds worth of load versus over 16000 pounds of sand for a load.

A picture of what you have for a lift setup now would help with any suggestions.
Also is the current setup power up and gravity down or is it power up and down.
Power down would eliminate a telescopic cylinder as an option.
Power down also reduces the need for a large tank since both sides of the piston have fluid on them.

I will also say a cylinder with a longer stroke or a telescopic cylinder is going to take more fluid to extend, so most likely a larger hydraulic tank would be in order.
Don't think they got that far. Oregon Corporation Division didn't have them on their Corp website.
Yow, hopefully it's not because the manufacturer was sued out of existence because the trailer was poorly designed/built and some accident happened because of it...
Buying a new cylinder is the solution. Doing the math for the geometry to find the correct size of cylinder and then make a new scissor lift to fit is the problem.
Yes I haul less than 4 yards but I do have 12" of wood sides above the 2' walls. I like to think of things on paper before actually trying changes. Sounds like from the comments buying a new ram is not the solution.
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Yes - a while back I got about a yard of (wet) black dirt, hauled it in my 1/2 Chev w/8' box. Was weighted in an out, 2,000 lb on the nose. Truck was way over loaded and low in the back. And it didn't make a very big pile in the box.

"4 yards of brush/trash is a lot different than 4 yards of sand as an example"
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