[NDwrench]

I have recently picked up a pair of little John Deere riding mowers. I was browsing this site looking for information as I was working on them and decided I should post my project on the site. If anything it will be a good showcase of how to get into a great big mess with used mowers...

So here I go. I bought two mowers from a CL add, an S-82 (I'll call mower #1) and a model 68 (mower #2). The 68 had been re-powered at some point with a different 8hp. It was running and kinda in working condition, it had been re-painted and cleaned up but it has had a long tough life. The s-82 had a blown engine, but everything else showed very little wear, the deck was in great shape, wiring looked new. Initially I thought I could make one good machine from he two and have plenty of parts if I should ever need any. Well thats not exactly how things are panning out...

When I got #2 I new the spindle bearing in deck was bad, howerver #1 was in very good shape, so I swapped the decks, changed oil, and mowed my yard with #2. It did a good job, however, in heavy grass it started smoking, and it got worse as it warmed up... crap! I suspect its rings and that the engine in #2 is just worn out. I have since mowed again and the smoke is pretty steady, also the engine seams to turn over easier when its hot, another bad sign.

 

[NDwrench]

My intial plans with these were to take the 8hp out of #2 and put it in #1, strip #2 down into parts and sell or discard what I didn't want to keep. Now that I need an engine I need to keep #2 running while I fix #1.

So I found a nice used briggs, guy told me it was a "runner" and "just needs a tune up". Well folks, just have look at the pictures and make you own conclusions...

I took the top off and entire engine was caked solid with dry grass, I took the picture after I had pulled most of the debris out. The plug wire was all torn up, so the coil is junk. Oh yeah and it has the worst carburator I have seen in a long time. Water sat in the carburator bowl for years, it froze and crushed the float.

 

[NDwrench]

Well all is not lost, I pulled the head and discvered the bore looked fantastic, and the valves appear to be in good shape. No signs of bad overheating, trust me I was shocked.

Knowing this is a rebuildable engine I scrounged a new coil from my brother and tossed that nasty carburator in my trusty ultrasonic cleaner. An hour later I pulled it out shook my head and put it back in for another hour with fresh solution.

 

[Pocketraisins]

Looking good so far!
How well does that ultrasonic cleaner work? I have been thinking about getting one but cant seem to justify one right now so its carb cleaner and solvents.

 

[Glen.T.Hale]

I'm new to,fixing engines. What is the ultra sonic cleaner?



Sent from the MTF Free App

 

[Nouveau Redneck]

I'm not familiar with the one in the picture, or for using ultrasonic cleaners on engine parts, as I used to use one to clean eyeglasses back when I was an optician, but they are all basically the same. A compartment with some sort of cleaning liquid or solvent. and you put the thing that you want to clean into the liquid, and it has some method of sending ultrasonic vibrations through the liquid (ultrasonic just means vibrations at a frequency higher than the average person can hear). High frequency vibrations just make things work faster generally, as they cause the molecules of the cleaner or solvent to come into contact with molecules of the dirt or grease or grime more often over time than they would if the parts just sat in the liquid without the vibrations.

 

[NDwrench]

I bought an industrial Ultrasonic cleaner on ebay a few years ago, it's millitary surplus (don't ask me what they used it for). High frequency vibration is how they work. Fill the tank with hot water and cleaning solution, drop your parts in and turn it on. You can get solutions for just cleaning carburators, many people use simple green, even dish soap.

This unit is an odd-ball, the tank is separate. These are used for cleaning carburators in many repair shops. Nothing works better.

As far as claening engine parts these things are the cat's meow. They work great for hydraulic vlaves, and transmissions too. The carburator turned out pretty nice, though I had the use a float from another carburator, the old one is toast.

 

[Flannelman]

Hi NDwrench,
I also live in Grand Forks and I had seen those on CL and thought he was going to have a tough sell on them. If you need a motor 8hp briggs I have one that has compression and a good starter but beyond that is unknown. Anyways lmk

 

[NDwrench]

Flannelman, these were not in the shape I expected when I saw them, but these mowers are the perfect size for my yard, they fit through my gate and roll into my storage shed. I haggled a good bit on them, and I sold my old Snapper for what I paid for these two.

I am going to try and replace the engine in #2 eventually, I think I have an 8hp I can use. If I can sell it for little cash it would pay for the overhaul of the S-82.

These little RER's are very quiet and smooth, the quality of the cut is better, the deck is better, and they turn better than my Snapper. I can also mow in 3rd gear most of the time and it has shaved about 20min of my cutting time. It's kind of like mowing your yard on a go-kart. Most of the new stuff in the big box stores is absolute crap, I'd rather tinker with these I guess.

 

[Flannelman]

I was trying to get the 68 off him to move over the motor I have to and resell. I think they are good mowers just I don't need one for myself so I didn't want both of them. Good job on talking him down I've found these don't really hold their value so he was to high for what 2 mowers needing work are worth in town.

 

[NDwrench]

More progress this weekend...

Pulled the blown engine from the s-82. My God everything was a mess, that thing must have gone off like a grenade! Took the pressure washer to it and cleaned it up.

 

[NDwrench]

Next I turned my attention to the replacement engine. I decided to tear it down, give it a light hone, and replace the seals. I have actually never overhauled a flat head briggs and figured why not give it a try. I have standard rings and a gasket set on the way.

The fly wheel gave me some trouble, let it sit over night with penetrating oil and it still wouldn't budge. I had to strike my make-shift puller with a hammer break it loose. The end of the crank mushroomed a bit, I will have to dress that up when it goes back together.

There was also trouble on the output side of the crank. The old snapper drive disk and pulley were still on and soon I found out why. There was an allen screw stuck in the hub, some had tried unsuccessfully to drill it out. I tried with a HSS drill bit but had no luck, set screw was too hard. I tried to rotate the set screw with a cold chisel and hammer, it wouldn't budge. I thought about cutting the length of the hub with a grinder, and even using a torch. Instead I tried something I have never done before. I drilled a series of holes around the stuck screw to relieve the threads... it worked. I was able to spin the screw half a turn and then use a puller on the hub.

Hit the engine parts with the pressure washer while I had it out. I should get it torn down this week.

 

[NDwrench]

It pulled the 11hp apart and it is definatly a low time engine. The internals look pretty good. I cleaned up the head and gasket surfaces and rinsed the cases with mineral spirits. The bore is very good, should need a light hone to seat the new rings. The original piston and rings look very nice. For an engine of this age that had some bad sings of abuse I think I got lucky. When I first took the the pull start and top cover off of this motor I was worried I'd be left with a boat anchor.

I have been thinking about the exhaust for this engine. The original setup for the 8hp is very quiet, like golf cart quiet. I wanted to try an use the muffler but I would have to fabricate an exhaust pipe. The donor engine came with teh exhaust form a Snapper I believe. Since the engine is turned 180 degrees in the john deere I can't use those parts either. I was looking at tubing sizes and parts I had laying around thinking about how I was going to make it work. I then found out that the s-92 had a 38" deck and an 11hp on the same frame as the s-82. I called around at some slavage places and discovered that an s-92 is by no means common these days. I did eventually find the parts I needed... in Missouri...

 

[NDwrench]

I am no stranger to engine work, but like I said earlier I have never torn one of these completely down before so I have a few questions.

The gasket kit came with 4 case gaskets, some are normal gasket material and some are the plain paper type. which type are you supposed to use? Can you add or remove gaskets to adjust the end play in the Crank? The thicker gaskets would add a few thousandths to the end play compared to the paper type though I don't think it really matters either way.

The only reason I picket up this engine was because it had pull start and electric start, I though that might be handy when the battery dies. This engine is also an industrial/commercial type and the top cover list all of these fancy features like "LubePower" and "Self Lubricating Main Bearings" (aren't they all?) The only difference I see between this engine and a standard B&S is the cast iron cylinder sleeve. Are these engines much different from the standard type, or is it just a bunch of marketing BS?

 

[NDwrench]

Didn't have much time to get into the engine work much. I was going to hone the block but I couldn't find the glaze breaker i founf every size except the one I neded (go figure). I did get the crank issue squared away. The top end got mushroomed when I pulled thye flywheel off so I was able to clean it up with a file and emery cloth. I polished and cleaned the output end of the crank and dressed the area on the journals where the seal rides. This crank is in very nice shape and I doubt there are any wear issues but I checked the rod journal anyways. 1.2497 to 1.2499 is within .0002" I don't think I am going to have any problems there! I am out of plastiguage but I doubt I will need it. I was unsure of corrosion issues expecially with an engine that has sat this long. I found almost none and aside from some slude bottom engine case this thing is near mint inside. I will get it set up to hone it then lap the valves and see how it goes back together.

 

[Todd_D]

Nice documentary, I look forward to seeing how it turns out.

 

[NDwrench]

Got some more engine work done, had a few minutes to hone the cylinder and lap the valves. I had to buy a new spring hone and I borrowed and old valve lapping tool form my Dad, it actually still works. The vlaves and seats are fanatstic. I checked the gaps and the new rings and cleaned up the short block, it will still need a bath before I start assembly.

 

[NDwrench]

I had made a list of a few things I need to do to the mower, new blade, drive belts, etc. While I was looking up parts I discovered that a 38in blade was available for these RER's. Seriously a Blade?

http://www.green-parts-direct.com/f..._&_401_FRONT_BLADES/10100002/1010D020D0100004

Then I found this old brochure, and it lists a blade as an optional accessory.

I wonder if a blower attachment for a 108 or 111 could be modified to work on my s-82? Hey if snapper can put blowers on their RER anything is possible.

 

[NDwrench]

The bulk of the rebuild is finally done.

I started with the crank assembly. The counterweight halves are a bit tricky to get bolted together in alignment. There is no dowel pin to line everything up so if the counterweight twists as you tighten the bolt it can bind up the crank. I had to loosen and re-tighten it several times to keep everything moving freely. I pressed new seals into the engine cases and installed the crank.

I forgot to get pictures of the piston but it got cleaned and I installed the rings, I did have to file the rings a bit as the end gap was a little tight. I shoot for .003 per inch of diameter if there is no minimum spec available. So now its time for a confession... I never use a ring compressor...ever. I have always used hose claps and shim stock. Does anyone even own a ring compressor? Because I am pretty sure the only place I have ever seen one was in a manual.

I got the internals back in the crank case and then closed it up. Earlier I was wondering about the extra case gaskets in I had in the kit. I was right in thinking they are for setting the crank end play. One gasket was all I needed to get between .002 to .008 end play. If this is too tight the engine can lock up, too loose and it might knock or rattle.

I had to grind on the end of both valves, the intake was just at the minimum but the exhaust valvw was way under. Lapping the valves does reduce the clearences a bit but not enough to account for the .006 or so the exhaust valve needed to be ground. This may be why the engine was retired, it might have had issues when it was hot. I have a fine Nichols file that works good for doing this by hand, but it takes a steady hand to get a good flat surface.

I was going to use head bolts from the blown 8hp but they are shorter so I need to clean up the old head bolts on this engine. For now I used the shorter ones finger tight to hold the head on so I can paint the engine. I have been painting the other parts as I get them cleaned up.

 

[MikMan48]

Hey Ndwrench i love RER's of any colour. You are doing on fine job on these JD's. Do you plan to restore any of them after the motor is rebuilt?

That is a cool idea with the front blade. I don't know how good it would work but it would be a good conversation piece. I have a few snappers and would love a blade just to play with

Keep doing what your doing


Mikey.