9n sat for a couple of weeks and now won't start

2874 Views 71 Replies 10 Participants Last post by Vigo, 9 mo ago

Benson Hill

Discussion Starter · 10 mo ago (Edited)

Guys, hi, and thanks in advance for any advice.

So, I am a real noob when it comes to tractors and the internal combustion engine, in general.

I needed something to haul logs from the woods, so a neighbor sold me a 1945ish Ford 9n 6 volt

It ran well enough when I was testing her out. Drove it home. The carb was leaking, I knew this, but was keen to get stuck in and learn a thing or 2. I was busy with house repair, and let the tractor sit for a couple of weeks. Yesterday I took the carb off, gave it a good clean. The float needle seemed a little sticky. I have a new one on order, but reseated it as best I could and so far, the leaking is drastically reduced/addressed

However, when I went to run her, she just wouldn't bite. Starter works, belt drives the shaft, but no spark or explosion, best as I can determine. I put in new 437, and then 216 plugs, for less resistance and a smaller gap. When I hit the ignition with the new plugs, I hear a loud electrical whine the first time, but no crank. It cranks after that first try however.

On 2 occasions, once today and once yesterday it almost coughed into life, very briefly.

I drained the carb, took the plugs out, added some oil to the plug holes, I can feel compressed air coming out of the holes when I turn the ignition on. I even tried warming the plugs with a lighter.

Battery reads at 6.3, so seems fine. It was a new one too, I am told.

So, where do I go from here? What is next on the list of things to try?

I have already looked over one or two threads related to engine flooding and hard starting and tried all I could find from those.

Thanks again guys. Really hoping to get her operational soon. I have many logs to haul!

Benson

21 - 40 of 72 Posts

Benson Hill

Discussion Starter · #21 · 10 mo ago

Smalljob said:
I watched your video and one thing jumped out at me. On my 9N and all others I have seen you have to hold the choke out. It springs back if the know is let go. Not your starting problem unless something is not connected correctly?

So please clarify. Will it stay running with the choke on? Can you try starting it with a little more throttle to start? Usually if an engine runs only with choke it is an intake leak or carb is dirty/ mal adjusted.

One other thought. Pull the drain plug out of the bottom of the carb to make sure the bowl is filling. You mentioned that the float needle was sticking.

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Ye, I definitely have a sticky needle issue. I had to tap the housing with a rubber hammer to stop it leaking on one occasion yesterday. I am giving her 4/5 notches of throttle to start. Where I left it yesterday, she will run continually, but only with the choke out. I was playing with the idle and fuel mix, best results were achieved that were way off the recommended turns. I took off the sediment bulb to check for dirt. The gasket fell apart and now I have to wait for a new one before I can try anything else.

I will have to search for a vacuum leak

609745

· #22 · 10 mo ago

Benson Hill said:
Here is the carb. The needle and valve do not look original to my untrained eye

in your right hand photo, i see the outside of the seat all buggered up and holding the needle into the seat, that needle needs to float in and out easily for gas to fill the fuel bowl

the float level must also be set properly as to level and drop

Reactions: 1

Smalljob

· #23 · 10 mo ago

Sounds like it is starving for gas

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609745

· #24 · 10 mo ago

Smalljob said:
Sounds like it is starving for gas

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

do you see the buger i saw in the seat? that needle is stuck closed

Smalljob

· #25 · 10 mo ago

charles g said:
do you see the buger i saw in the seat? that needle is stuck closed

I see what looks like someone over torqued the seat with a screw driver deforming it. I can't tell if that is impacting the movement of the needle. If it was stuck closed he would not get it to run on full choke. It certainly could be cleaned up with a small file or Dremel tool. Last week I was working on a small carb on a little K161 engine and the needle would not consistently slide. My needle had 3 sides that touch the sides of the seat. I used some 400 grit sand paper and cleaned up all three sides. Really didn't do much more than polish it. Works perfect now. Going back and looking at the picture and it looks like the gasket might need to be flipped around. Some times they line up better one way. It could also be the way the picture was taken.

Bill

Reactions: 2

Alien5044

· #26 · 10 mo ago

Just for kicks, can you attach your spark test lamp to one of the plugs so you can see it when you try to start it.

What you are looking for is the lamp to show spark as you crank it, and as it begins to run, then goes out when it quits.

This, just to eliminate the possibility that the ignition system is quitting upon start up or release of the starter.

Oddly, this is exactly what I experienced with an old Dodge whose ignition ballast resistor had failed. It was literally exactly what your video shows. Unsure if anything similar is in the 9N ignition system.

Alien5044

· #27 · 10 mo ago

The more I hear your video playing in a loop, it sounds like it is starting on all 4 cylinders and for a second, and running evenly before quitting completely.

A key question here: Does it restart and fail like this when you retry starting it??

If it does the same over and over again, I am leaning heavily on an ignition problem. Double check to see that the spark is present during starting and continues through the stall out. If the spark goes out, then you know something in your ignition isn't right.

May I suggest that you buy new condenser, points, and coil. just to be sure. Also I hope a 9N expert can tell us if there is anything like a ballast resistor in this old ignition system.

Smalljob

· #28 · 10 mo ago

yes there is a ballast resister, mounted up on the back of the dash

Smalljob

· #29 · 10 mo ago

Here is what it looks like

Circuit component Jewellery Passive circuit component Font Metal

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Benson Hill

Discussion Starter · #30 · 10 mo ago

Smalljob said:
I see what looks like someone over torqued the seat with a screw driver deforming it. I can't tell if that is impacting the movement of the needle. If it was stuck closed he would not get it to run on full choke. It certainly could be cleaned up with a small file or Dremel tool. Last week I was working on a small carb on a little K161 engine and the needle would not consistently slide. My needle had 3 sides that touch the sides of the seat. I used some 400 grit sand paper and cleaned up all three sides. Really didn't do much more than polish it. Works perfect now. Going back and looking at the picture and it looks like the gasket might need to be flipped around. Some times they line up better one way. It could also be the way the picture was taken.

Bill

New seat and needle on the way. I will double check the float adjustment too once the parts come in.

Benson Hill

Discussion Starter · #31 · 10 mo ago

Smalljob said:
Here is what it looks like View attachment 2561016

I have one of these on order too. Mine is a little crudy looking

Vigo

· #32 · 10 mo ago

I would say the most likely thing is not getting fuel into the float bowl. IF the fuel is getting to the carb (i believe there is a screen at the fuel tank outlet and a screen at the carb inlet?) then it is probably not getting past the needle/seat of the float valve. Is it possible you accidentally bent the float parts in a way that is holding that valve closed even though the bowl is empty? Could also be misassembled.. the float arm should 'slot' onto the end of the needle valve, if you have it simply pushing on the end of the needle valve it would probably hold it closed at all times.

Also, if the carb bowl has a drain on it that makes it very easy to test this theory. If everything from the tank to the float bowl was working correctly, taking out the drain plug for the float bowl would get you a pretty steady stream.

Reactions: 1

Alien5044

· #33 · 10 mo ago

On my old Dodge, the mechanic who fixed it for me told me that the starter would drop the ignition voltage (or maybe it was the amps, just don't recall which) momentarily doing what the ballast resistor was supposed to do, allowing the engine to fire for maybe one revolution. But when the starter disengaged, the ignition immediately failed to fire without the working ballast resistor.

I must have tried to start that car 50 times and each time it acted exactly like what your video showed. One right after another. Being a lot younger then, I tossed everything I could afford at it to no avail. In those days the ballast resistor was a minor cost, but the lesson was priceless.

You could try starting fluid through the carb intake. If you can keep it running on that, then it is a fuel issue. If it still fires then immediately dies, it is ignition.

Benson Hill

Discussion Starter · #34 · 10 mo ago

Vigo said:
the float arm should 'slot' onto the end of the needle valve, if you have it simply pushing on the end of the needle valve it would probably hold it closed at all times.

This is new and key info. I will check this out immediately. Thank you.

Smalljob

· #35 · 10 mo ago

If you do the test that both Vigo and I suggested ( remove the drain plug at bottom of the bowl you will see if you are getting good flow and if the float/ needle is hung up

beenthere2

· #36 · 10 mo ago

Benson Hill said:
Guys, hi, and thanks in advance for any advice.

So, I am a real noob when it comes to tractors and the internal combustion engine, in general.

I needed something to haul logs from the woods, so a neighbor sold me a 1945ish Ford 9n 6 volt

It ran well enough when I was testing her out. Drove it home. The carb was leaking, I knew this, but was keen to get stuck in and learn a thing or 2. I was busy with house repair, and let the tractor sit for a couple of weeks. Yesterday I took the carb off, gave it a good clean. The float needle seemed a little sticky. I have a new one on order, but reseated it as best I could and so far, the leaking is drastically reduced/addressed

However, when I went to run her, she just wouldn't bite. Starter works, belt drives the shaft, but no spark or explosion, best as I can determine. I put in new 437, and then 216 plugs, for less resistance and a smaller gap. When I hit the ignition with the new plugs, I hear a loud electrical whine the first time, but no crank. It cranks after that first try however.

On 2 occasions, once today and once yesterday it almost coughed into life, very briefly.

I drained the carb, took the plugs out, added some oil to the plug holes, I can feel compressed air coming out of the holes when I turn the ignition on. I even tried warming the plugs with a lighter.

Battery reads at 6.3, so seems fine. It was a new one too, I am told.

So, where do I go from here? What is next on the list of things to try?

I have already looked over one or two threads related to engine flooding and hard starting and tried all I could find from those.

Thanks again guys. Really hoping to get her operational soon. I have many logs to haul!

Benson

Without reading all the replies, I'd suggest going to a dealer close to you and talking about trading up. The 9N's are good for what you want to do, but the 8N's are better.. then you can go up from there and get hydrostatic transmission with FEL and rear attachments and the list goes on. If you like the mechanic work, then continue with the 9N. If not, see a dealer and find something more up to date and more trouble free.

Paladin

· #37 · 10 mo ago

Benson Hill said:
New seat and needle on the way. I will double check the float adjustment too once the parts come in.

Go to the www.ntractorclub.com website. everybody on the site is an N tractor enthusiast. They have a whole page of downloads on rebuilding the carb and the distributor and just about anything else on the tractors.

i own 12 N tractors including my parts supply N’s (wife not happy) and I have restored a whole bunch of them over the years. while it does my heart good to see you rebuilding the carb as a learning experience, you might be better off buying a rebuilt and tested carb. if you buy a rebuild kit it will have you changing out the jets and it’s too easy for the novice to snap one off.

Ford changed the jet sizes over time. The economizer jet got larger to eliminate hesitation. You want the revised jet sizes.

The website that I mention has a download entitled something like “25 Tips For The N Tractor Owner”. it covers troubleshooting from A to Z.

i recommend www.just8Ns.com for parts. the stuff from a tractor supply is junk. I think that just8Ns will also swap out your carb for a rebuilt one.

The starter is a bigger deal. if you can free up the bendix and get it to reliably engage so far so good. If you have badly chewed up or missing teeth on the flywheel it’s a much bigger problem that involves splitting the tractor and having a shop shrink fit a new flywheel gear.

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Paladin

· #38 · 10 mo ago (Edited by Moderator)

Benson Hill said:
Ye, I definitely have a sticky needle issue. I had to tap the housing with a rubber hammer to stop it leaking on one occasion yesterday. I am giving her 4/5 notches of throttle to start. Where I left it yesterday, she will run continually, but only with the choke out. I was playing with the idle and fuel mix, best results were achieved that were way off the recommended turns. I took off the sediment bulb to check for dirt. The gasket fell apart and now I have to wait for a new one before I can try anything else.

I will have to search for a vacuum leak

PS - The brass socket for the carb needle can be a real pain to get out. i built a L shaped wrench out of flat stock. You may need the carb in a vice, a screwdriver ground to fit and vice grips. I have already had to send a couple of screwed up ones to a friends machine shop to have them drilled out.

Paladin

· #39 · 10 mo ago

Benson Hill said:
I have one of these on order too. Mine is a little crudy looking

PPS - The needle must be matched to the seat. You always replace both together. the newer needles have a rubber tip, which is a valuable feature. If you absolutely can’t get the seat out i’d try it with a new rubber tipped needle and see what happens. it is possible to polish the seat with a pointed piece of dowel stick and toothpaste or metal polish I always make sure to get the seat out and replace both.

cojhl2

· #40 · 10 mo ago

beenthere2 said:
Without reading all the replies, I'd suggest going to a dealer close to you and talking about trading up. The 9N's are good for what you want to do, but the 8N's are better.. then you can go up from there and get hydrostatic transmission with FEL and rear attachments and the list goes on. If you like the mechanic work, then continue with the 9N. If not, see a dealer and find something more up to date and more trouble free.

Ran 9N for years then 8N and now 860.

Therre is absolutely nothing wrong with a 9N, just not as handy as the newer machines.

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