My Tractor Forum banner

1 - 20 of 44 Posts

·
Subsurface dweller
Joined
·
194 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So...I have this KwikWay loader and this 8122 which doesn't get much use. I actually tried to sell it on eBay & Craigslist a couple months back but had no takers. So I guess I'll cob up this Gravely and paste that loader on there! I don't need it to mow since I am far happier with my souped up Wheel Horse for that so it will be dedicated loader only.

Here's a shot after I altered a feature that I thought would be annoying when using the loader...



So... what do you think has been changed (aside from the cribbed up sub-frame and removed hood) and do you want to see more?
 

·
Subsurface dweller
Joined
·
194 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Ooops. Forgot about those Bearing Buddies...they were on there when I bought the machine a while back. Tho' that's not what has really been changed. Something typical of 8122's is missing... now what could that be? Hmmm....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
Different rear tires? What about the seat? Maybe the deck and the lift arm is what your talking about?

So what you talkin' about?

Matt
 

·
Subsurface dweller
Joined
·
194 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Where's the clutch
A winnah!!

This all started when I bought a used (a bit tweaked) KwikWay loader. The slightly newer variety found on mid-70's Sears. Self leveling. I think it was originally on a JD. I was not going to buy a tractor to put it on when there's a half dozen candidates around here. I first looked at either of my Wheel Horses. Well they're both hydros and I got concerned about all the hand controls and not enough hands! This Gravely sat there. I couldn't seem to get rid of it. Nobody wanted it. It runs fine but I simply prefer the way that Wheel Horse C161A mows (especially with the steering modifications I made and which I may also perform on this Gravely if needed)...this Gravely couldn't come close to the ease of handling of that C161A when mowing our mess of a yard (not lawn...it's ugly!). I then considered putting the loader on an idle gear drive Jacobsen Chief 1200. I have run gear drive tractor/loader/backhoes before and you just feather the foot clutch as needed. Well, I found the old Jake had some serious mechanical problems...engine and trans. Back to this Gravely.
What to do with the hand clutch? Well the later G's have a foot treadle. But if you look at the parts diagrams and manuals, while the clutches and springs are similar as this 8122, the actuating mechanism (even the lever plate mounted to side of frame) is completely different. I could work my way around that tho'. But could I make foot clutch for the existing late 8000 type over center clutch latching mechanism? Why not?
Well, I managed to come up with an interesting solution. It seems to work very well and becomes reasonably intuitive despite its awkwardly first appearance. I like it so it's running this way...for now! This is why the above pic is from this side... the side that would normally have the Gravely treadle control.
One thing that has irritated me about these little machines is having the controls all backward. I have plenty of heavy ag and industrial equipment around here. I just do not understand why a more concerted effort is not put in to arranging the controls in a somewhat standard arrangement. The left foot should be gears/clutches and the right foot takes care of brakes.

Anyway, I left the brake where it was. And created a whole 'nuther mess on the left foot board for a forward clutch pedal and a separate heel operated reverse. And before the purists get their undies in a bunch...NOT ONE SINGLE HOLE HAS BEEN DRILLED OR A SINGLE WELD TO THE TRACTOR. It is strictly bolt on and no stock components have been altered. It will free up both hands to steer and manipulate hydraulic valves and both feet get into the action!

I'll post some more pics if desired. Perhaps this eve.
 

·
Gravelyyard.com
Joined
·
5,922 Posts
Heck yes on the pictures! I'm interested! Don't worry about the purist, they only want to look at these things. Lots of us want/need to use them and any new and improved ideas are always welcome. I an very impressed that you were able to do it without and major modifications.

I had a Quick-Way and the only real problem with it is that you really needed 3 hands to work it. I was going to move it to a foot controlled G, but I sold it before that project was complete.
 

·
Gravely bug bit.
Joined
·
8,733 Posts
Standard way of building a tractor is clutch on the right and brakes on the left. Hand control on a JD 1010/2010/3010/4010/4020 for direction/gear was on the right. If you check a 24-G or our 35-G you'll find them that way. Brakes were kept on the right when Gravely did away with the dual brakes of the 400s so that you got off the tractor with ease on the left. They changed back over to left brake in the -G series when they went to the foot pedal.
 

·
Subsurface dweller
Joined
·
194 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Standard way of building a tractor is clutch on the right and brakes on the left.
I can only assume you mean standard way for a garden tractor. All the ag tractors I have are arranged with the clutch on the left foot, the brakes on the right foot. That includes Allis, Massey, Ford, White, Oliver, Minneapolis Moline, etc.

I haven't seen pics yet but I'm guessing this mod would be even easier on newer machines with the trunion clutches.

This is a later 8000 series with the trunnion clutches vs. rollers. Thus the goofy over center forward clutch latch on the left side linkage plate. You'll see in the next few pics.

This particular 8122 has the two 1" holes thru both frame plates that were used with earlier clutch/brake arrangements. They just left them in and vacant. I removed the hand lever, pivot, and link bar. I had some used bronze hat bushings left over from a machine overhaul. They were a tad long so I lathed them to the 3/8" length under head to match the thrown flange in the frame holes. One was pressed in each frame from outside in and then re-reamed to 3/4"...




The over center clutch latch mechanism is at the left. The welded blob on the vertical plate just to the left of the hammerhead neutral return (which is attached to brake pedal) is the pin where the hand clutch linkage attached (and hence where I will attach this goofy foot control). These bushings are where we'll install a shaft to get the clutch functions on the other side of the machine.

More a bit later.
 

·
Subsurface dweller
Joined
·
194 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Next we slide a 3/4" shaft thru the two bushings to transfer clutch duties to the left side of machine. At this point we need to figure a link to connect the shaft to the over center latch (that welded blob pin mentioned above). This means an arm needs to be attached to the shaft. There will need to be another arm on the left side. One can be welded on but the other needs to be removable. I'll make this side removable since I anticipate complexities on the far side. Those may be better handled with a weldment.
So here's the right side linkage and arm...




The blue circle is the "hole" that the original hand clutch link (a 1/4" X 3/4" flat wire item) passed thru. I used the same stock size for this link. It is arched so as not to interfere with the neutral return "hammer mead" actuator. Should handle things just fine since the original was under compression (for fwd motion) and completely unsupported for it full 18" length or so. I milled the arm out of scrap steel, broached it for a 3/16" key, and then cross drilled for the pinch bolt. It passes the shaft at the tangency so as to give added torque transfer by acting as a cotter.
It cam be seen that no ratio is has been changed yet. The vertical bar where this link is attached, has a pivot to pin spread of 1-1/4". The total travel from full locked forward to hard reverse pressure is 7/8" travel on the linkage. I kept the same 1-1/4" pivot distance on this new arm. No change thus far.

Next we'll get to the left side.
 

·
Old Iron Connoisseur
Joined
·
2,785 Posts
I'm 90% of the time a purist... but at this point if I'm going to keep collecting I have to show a NEED for them and they have to work for justification from the boss. I am 110% behind this modification and it looks like lots of time has been put into it. Nice fab work so far and keep the pictures coming!

A modified and used machine is better than an unmodified but sitting machine any day.
 

·
Subsurface dweller
Joined
·
194 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Now on to the left side of the torque shaft. As mentioned, the arm ratio has been maintained thus far. I need to address how much effort will be required for a foot operated mechanism. The hand lever affords quite a bit of leverage for the arm. A leg operated device can run effort up much higher since the leg is much more powerful. These Gravely riders sit pretty tall. This places your lower leg more vertical than most other machines. Not exactly the most powerful output position. So we may need to keep it lighter than say a 150 HP field tractor! By shortening the arm on the shaft, we ease the force, but then travel is increased. That is the crux of mechanical levers! We can lengthen the arm and travel is decreased but effort increased. We'll get to that later. Right now, I also need to figure out how to rig up a reverse lever. Both were taken care of with dual, diametrically opposite arms...




The arm on bottom is for FWD, the upper is for REV. Since we placed the FWD arm on the bottom and the arm on right side was on top, the action is now inverted... a pull forward on the lower arm will twist the shaft CW (as viewed from left side of tractor) and since right side arm is on top, force the over center link to engage forward clutch and latch.
Meanwhile, the upper arm will rotate toward the rear of machine. This arm will work the reverse (and prior to that, unlatch the over center link) clutch. That will be more evident in another installment.
You can see a round item with a flange welded to it and this is bolted to the two factory holes in the foot board. See the shiny nuts? This is the pivot shaft for the reverse pedal. It is a 5/8" diameter rod, flatted to accept the mounting flange. The inboard end has a 1/2" dia X .1" long pilot (spigot) turned on it and then is tapped for 5/16NC. This spigot enters a pre-existing hole in frame and thus supports the inboard end of shaft. I suppose these holes were for the factory steering brakes. They were there so I just wormed all the doodads to fit. Note the arched upper REV link. This allows the link to travel thru its range without needing to cut up the foot board. Again, it is 1/4"X 3/4" flat stock. The arms have 3/8" sections of a SHCS welded in place and a cotter hole drilled to retain the links. The lower link is similar material.
The larger diameter on the reverse shaft is the actual pivot sleeve that the reverse pedal and arm are welded to. The REV arms are longer than the FWD arms. This gets the link lined up better for the existing hole for the link to pass thru. I did lengthen the arm on the REV pedal to reduce the travel of REV pedal, sacrificing low effort.
So far, we haven't touched the tractor! This all didn't happen in a matter of minutes... the arms took 4 fit ups and re-work sessions. Trial and error. It ain't worth messing around with CAD. Just cut it out, tack it on and test it.
Next we'll head forward for the pedal and some junk yard parts.
 

·
Subsurface dweller
Joined
·
194 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Now we need to connect the left side of shaft to the pedals. I didn't want to use a treadle like Gravely G's. I just didn't like the idea of one leg higher than the other. I've never had one, sat on one, or even seen one in person. I suppose it works just fine and nobody has any issues with their right leg higher than their left. I simply prefer symmetry if I can do something about it. So this means a pedal to push for FWD and of course, it locks down. But how to release it without using the brake if so desired? A second heel operated pedal that travels in opposite direction was selected...



Now this may seem odd...and I suppose it is. But think of it as a heel/toe shifter on a foot board equipped Harley. Since the FWD arm on the torque shaft gets pulled forward for FWD motion, the upper REV arm rotates aft simultaneously. This raises the REV pedal whilst the FWD pedal is depressed and vice versa.
The FWD pedal came from an Ingersoll YTsomethingorother (it's even a somewhat orange/red!). It was meant to be on the right foot so I slipped the rubber tread of and inverted it, then threw a joggle in it to clear the joggle in the frame rail. The we made a tab to which the link arm is attached. I wanted to place the link above the pivot axis (and thus the foot board) because I knew I wanted to mount a sub-frame for a loader so this keeps everything compact. The sub-frame can be raised up very high for both ground clearance and strength.
The manual lift was removed. I won't be needing that. However, I made the link hug the foot board reasonable close and it does actually clear the lift. So if inclined, I can re-install it at a later date and the foot control remains functional.
The pivot for the FWD pedal is a simple 1" bar, turned to 5/8" for the pedal. It is cross drilled to accept the 3/8" carriage bolts that fasten it to the existing two square holes in the foot board. This is quite sturdy. A cotter keeps the pedal from walking inboard and the shoulder on the pivot keeps the pedal from fouling with the foot board cutout.
I had tacked the tab for the linkage at a 1.5" center distance to keep travel to a minimum. Effort was very easy, but since the pedal went from feather to lock in such a short travel distance, I lowered the tab to 1-5/16" distance. This provides even easier effort while increasing throw for smoother feathering and clutch engagement.
The REV pedal still looks a bit clumsy! It is completely functional but I need to forge it out flat a bit where the heel strikes it. My thoughts are to make it similar to the Gravely brake pedal. We'll heat it up and smash it out and perhaps stipple it for no slip. I would have use a more elegant flat stock, but vertical clearance is at a premium. As it is you needn't raise your foot off board. Just raise heel and slide foot back and the pedal will slip under your foot. We can improve that a bit more with a flatted working section.
This is all fairly compact and leaves a large amount of the foot board clear for mounting the tractor. Clearly, there is a certain hazard if one should step on the REv pedal whilst the transmission is in a gear. The same as the treadle but this may be easier to accidently engage. I make it a point to dismount the tractor with brake engaged or at least sliding the gear selector into N.
As can be seen, it does work and work pretty well. It also can be seen that all the holes were already there.

If there is any desire to see the individual parts, holler. We will be disassembling the mechanism to paint it (with a brush of course!).
Now we will turn our attention to finishing the loader sub-frame and then figuring how to drive the pump off the PTO. I do not want to put that pump on the motor. Hmmm...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,507 Posts
Zippez, great pictorial, project and description. I can see that this project took alot of thought, time and fit-up to get it to this point. Not to mention the time in trial and error. Thanks for sharing it with us. I'm sure you will be an inspiration to those who may want to do this modification for a similar install of a front end loader. KUDOS to the great workmanship and machining of the parts.
 

·
Subsurface dweller
Joined
·
194 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Thank you folks for the kind words. As mentioned, there was a whole bunch of head scratching and trial and error with coat hangers and such to get a working solution. I think we made it. As to the actual practicality, time with use will tell. I do not anticipate any further modifications. I know there are not any adjustments in this linkage, but I think any adjustments can be made by altering the arch (more or less) in any of the three flat wire links will suffice... just reshape and repaint. Crude but entirely simple and wholly effective!
I did forge out the reverse pedal to look a bit more "finished". It actually looks like something intended that way! Used the time honored method of hot smitty: heat and beat! Get 'er orange hot, and then wail away with a 4 pound hammer. Dress it with a German planer.
Got around to glass beading the items and painting (oops, looks like that one arm escaped the painter!) with a spot on color match to the original paint. Mixed by eye. It'll work...




We are now shifting work to the pump mounting. I did not want to put a pump back on the engine for various reasons. I had wanted to put it on the PTO. But since that turns too slow and my pump to small... a speed increaser would be in order. It can be done but that is more effort than putting it back on the motor. Oh well. I need to keep the hitch intact so cannot clutter that too much. I think we have some ideas as to how to get this done. That will be the next installment to this thread if anyone is interested.
 
1 - 20 of 44 Posts
Top