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Discussion Starter #1
hello everyone
i have 77-78 Allis Chalmers 712(shuttle)
its in pretty good overall condition, no rot ... little surface rust here and there
ill get some pics up later.

kohler 12hp k301s-47642d
engine just died, its been burning alot of oil since i got it.
took it out of the tractor last night, poped head off and looked at the cylinder bore, and it doesnt appear to have any gouges.
the engine will not turn over with the starter, i can get the piston to move turning the crank ... but not easy
have not gone any deeper into this engine yet, im wondering what i should do ... try and have this rebuilt ? or get the vanguard 18hp conversion for like 1350 shipped..... :drunkie:

any advice on what to do ? , ive never rebuilt an engine my self so dont want to do that ... is there any further i should go to see whats damaged ?
im thinking its gonna need a complete rebuild and that would run around 800-1000 ?

i know the block is cast iron, but if it has been overheated is it still a good block to rebuild ?(im not sure if it did, but possible)

thanks for any help ! :thanku:

i've been considering just getting a new mower ... but i love having a "tractor"
for the price of a new mower, i could buy the vanguard and i think have a way better machine .....

im gonna clean up the engine compartment today, and am kinda geting into the idea of restoring her. theres a few other little quirks with the tractor that ill ask about later ...... :praying:
 

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Sounds like the rod and crank may be your main problem with it hard to move, but if it was using oil the rings are probably tired as well. You would have to have the bore measured for wear and out of round conditions. Depending upon the condition of the crank it can be turned undersize if not damaged too bad. Add a valve job and valve guides while you have it this far. That being said, the last Kohler I had done ran me around $385 for parts and machining, but prices will vary by region on the machining. If you do a complete job with crank bearings and all, I would budget around $750 for parts and labor.

If the Vanguard conversion comes with everything you need, wiring, muffler, etc.. you will like the extra h.p.

If it were mine, and this is just my personal preference, the original engine is a good engine and if gone through completely, will give you many more years of service with some change left over for tires, belts, etc.

I would get a couple of estimates for complete rebuilds from area shops including machiniing, parts, and misc labor for assy.
 

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I have two 712s's and they are good tractors. I personally would rebuild the kohler as it will outlast the vanguard down the road if you take care of it.

Have you used the tractor much before the motor problem? Do you like the shuttle drive? I swapped one of mine out for a hydro cause they are a nightmare to keep adjusted. Not that I am telling you to abandon it, but just know that it isn't a true hydro and can be a pain and would hate for you to be unhappy with a fresh motor.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks guys, the new vanguard is very tempting because it comes with new everything.... ill have to think about it some more

in reguards to the shuttle, i have had no problems with it going FOWARD in any gear ... except for a little grinding sometimes puting into gear , have to let up on the clutch a little then it goes in.
with the reverse on the other hand ... i have had some issues but have gotten it to work again .... is it supposed to put more of a strain on the engine when backing up ? the way the shuttle drive works is strange, if i am correct a strap engages that stops one gear from turning and reverses the rotation ?

that issue doesn't bother me too much as i dont use reverse that often...

there is 2 other issues one with the rear end .... i used this tractor to disc up about a acre of grass ... 4'disc.... also tried to pull some stumps with pulleys setup...... one time the axle seemed to push out and lost power to the wheel ... i took the wheel off and axle out .. all teeth look fine but it seems like theres not much holding the axle in there .... just 1 little screw on each end ?

the other issue is the deck ... it was squeeking and complaining a bit with higher grass ... but i didnt have the rear wheels adjusted as high as i had the lever ... so maybe that was it ?

if anyone wants to chime in on any of these issues ... please do :trink39:
 

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in reguards to the shuttle, i have had no problems with it going FOWARD in any gear ... except for a little grinding sometimes puting into gear , have to let up on the clutch a little then it goes in.
With the shuttle lever in the middle (neutral) detent, you should be able to shift gears without using the clutch pedal.

with the reverse on the other hand ... i have had some issues but have gotten it to work again .... is it supposed to put more of a strain on the engine when backing up ?
It should not put more strain on the engine in reverse.

All of the above symptoms point to being out of adjustment. Do you have the manual showing how to adjust the shuttle? If not, I can post it for you.

the other issue is the deck ... it was squeeking and complaining a bit with higher grass ... but i didnt have the rear wheels adjusted as high as i had the lever ... so maybe that was it ?
Take the drive belt off and spin the blades by hand to see if you feel any drag on the spindles. Could be an arbor bearing complaining and getting ready to cause some problems. Not hard to replace.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
i've taken the deck off , it seems to spin fine by hand...
no grease fittings tho.

what about the rear axle ? one side just held on with collar and little set screw ?
it didnt come out again since i fixed it .... but .....

im going to completely go through the adjustments on the shuttle, need new engine to test :trink40:


also what you think of the frame condition ? only rust on it is inbetween the sheet metal around the steering wheel where it meets the fame ...and around the battery holder,.... need to find some a/c orange paint
 

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i've taken the deck off , it seems to spin fine by hand...no grease fittings tho.
The arbors run on two sealed bearings. Some people put some grease in the arbor housings to reduce any internal rusting of the housing and arbor.

what about the rear axle ? one side just held on with collar and little set screw ? it didnt come out again since i fixed it .... but .....
The left hub is welded to the axle and slides through the transmission and axle torque tube and is held in location by the set collar and set screw as you described. Then the differential is mounted to the right side. When the collar comes loose it allows the axle to slide to the left just enough to come disengaged from the differential. I have never had one come loose but you hear about it every now and then.

also what you think of the frame condition ? only rust on it is in between the sheet metal around the steering wheel where it meets the fame ...and around the battery holder,.... need to find some a/c orange paint
Frame looks fine and a great candidate for a nice restoration if you want to take it that far. While it is down I would take the dash tower off and remove as much rust as possible, then coat with a rust converter type primer before painting it with the main color. It would make a really sharp looking tractor if you chose to do the whole thing, but should give you many more years in it's current state.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
thanks for all the help Mike, im not going to do a "show room" type resto , but i believe i can get it looking pretty clean touching up a few spots. i will be taking that tower off for sure, also getting a new seat .... the one on there looks original, and just about completely covered with duct tape ...lol
it was bought from a school auction ... im guessing around 1985, unit was sold in 78... so im not sure how long they keep them in service for and im assuming they keep their equipment inside. my grandfather bought it and its been siting in his garage since... then it came to me last year ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
tower came off fairly easy ... ill be posting pics as i clean her up ...

im trying to find a steering wheel replacement ... but cant find any that attach the same way as the stock one ... any ideas ?

:Orange_tr
 

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As far as steering wheels go, I am not sure about finding a new one, but they do show up on E-Bay. Any steering wheel from a Simplicity 70XX should work as well as Homelite T series.

Are your spokes broken, center hub loose, or does it just fit sloppy?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
center shaft broke loose from the wheel, so i drilled a hole through the plastic wheel and shaft and bolted it back together.... not sure how long it will hold up like this .


i cleaned up underneath her today ... and did some grinding on the rust under tower, sprayed some rust converter. now i need to find some ac orange paint and re-attach the tower .... i may be ordering the vanguard 18hp this week :trink40:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
new engine is on its way:bannana:

any other ideas on a steering wheel ?

also when removing the gas tank i pulled the plug out of the bottom of the tank tring to get the fuel lines off, it looks like there is a little bag filter on this .... should i replace this ?
 

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That is a clean tractor yes I would replace the gas filter and all fluids While it is down. grease all fittings found and as for paint you should be able to get it at TSC or if none near you any auto paint shop can match and custom mix even put it in a spray can if you want... keep up the pics looks great
 

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That is a clean tractor yes I would replace the gas filter and all fluids While it is down. grease all fittings found andas for paint you should be able to get it at TSC or if none near you any auto paint shop can match and custom mix even put it in a spray can if you want... keep up the pics looks great
 

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center shaft broke loose from the wheel, so i drilled a hole through the plastic wheel and shaft and bolted it back together.... not sure how long it will hold up like this .
My 7014S had two bolts holding the wheel to the center when I bought it 3 years ago. Still going strong!
 

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I've thought about the Vanguard conversion for one of my AC's....would be great to get an opinion of the fit of the kit and performance.

Heard a lot of good things about the Vanguards-doubt you will regret it. Would be interested how one could install an oil filter in that frame. Briggs does offer a remote oil filter kit....

Brent
 

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Discussion Starter #19
alright, ill keep the old wheel ...

im a still a newbie to tractor stuff here ... :1287:

i need a new "fuel tank gauge cap" took me awhile to figure that out ... look like i can get some JD ones ... thread should be the same i guess ?

also the plug in the bottom of the fuel tank ... what is that filter called or is it all one piece, either way where can i find one ?
it appears that the new engine has a inline fuel filter ...do i even need a new filter for the other ?

the rear end/trans takes 90w oil

what about the transfer case/pto ?

:thanku:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I've thought about the Vanguard conversion for one of my AC's....would be great to get an opinion of the fit of the kit and performance.

Heard a lot of good things about the Vanguards-doubt you will regret it. Would be interested how one could install an oil filter in that frame. Briggs does offer a remote oil filter kit....

Brent
ill let you know, should have it in in 2 weeks or so.:bananapow
im gonna have to look into that remote filter kit
 
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