My Tractor Forum banner

1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Greetings,

I'm servicing my hydro trans and have a few questions. Existing fluid is the same color as a red ATF that's been running in it since I bought it in 2014. What particular brand of ATF (if indeed it is ATF) do I use? I have a filler tube under the seat, but no fill level indicator. Do I fill to the top of the case? No issues, but I thing she's a little low. Any other tips related to the hydro? Thanks.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
21,369 Posts
Massey recommends ATF type A (now Dexron) as the alternate for that hydro.

My foggy memory says there is a dipstick or plug for checking fluid level on the front left corner of the hydro. Keep in mind that I sold my old MF 12 in 1985, and haven't touched the fresh one that I acquired just before a go-around with cancer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
To my knowledge earlier versions of the mf 12 had a dip stick on the front left of the hydro, mine a 68 has a clear tube attached there that goes up to a small tank under the seat and a sight tube on the tank. I first thought someone had added this but it is in the shop manual. I just keep the tank half full.
 

·
not quins. but sextuplets
Joined
·
15,213 Posts
To my knowledge earlier versions of the mf 12 had a dip stick on the front left of the hydro, mine a 68 has a clear tube attached there that goes up to a small tank under the seat and a sight tube on the tank. I first thought someone had added this but it is in the shop manual. I just keep the tank half full.
I have 2 MF 14's.. I think the trannies r the same.. one had a tank & the other had a tube with a cap on it..
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
21,369 Posts
I have 2 MF 14's.. I think the trannies r the same.. one had a tank & the other had a tube with a cap on it..
Different hydros. The MF14/16 has a Sundstrand Series 15 coupled to a Peerless 2500 2-speed final drive. The MF12 has a smaller hydro with a gear motor rather than the piston motor in the Series 15, and it is coupled to a lighter Peerless 2400 single speed final drive.
 

·
not quins. but sextuplets
Joined
·
15,213 Posts
Different hydros. The MF14/16 has a Sundstrand Series 15 coupled to a Peerless 2500 2-speed final drive. The MF12 has a smaller hydro with a gear motor rather than the piston motor in the Series 15, and it is coupled to a lighter Peerless 2400 single speed final drive.
well that proves me wrong.. one of mine still had a tank & one had a tube.. what I was thinkin was the 12 was the same as the 14.. instead the it is the 14/16.. my mind is going wacky..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
What years are your 14’s?
I would have thought if they continued with the tank idea moving forward from the later 12’s both would have it. My parts manual lists the tank used on 12’s from ser# 1446 506 953 and up.
 

·
not quins. but sextuplets
Joined
·
15,213 Posts
What years are your 14’s?
I would have thought if they continued with the tank idea moving forward from the later 12’s both would have it. My parts manual lists the tank used on 12’s from ser# 1446 506 953 and up.
I do have the years list but I don't know which had the tank.. if u want the tank I could send it to u.. for a price & postage.. when I made the 14's into a project I didn't use the tank.. I could look & see if I still have it..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
I personally do not need the tank, but thanks for the offer. My 12 has the tank and is a well kept well running machine. Only thing I need and haven’t had for a good many years is a decent hood front bezel. Broke mine in about 5 pieces.
 

·
not quins. but sextuplets
Joined
·
15,213 Posts
I personally do not need the tank, but thanks for the offer. My 12 has the tank and is a well kept well running machine. Only thing I need and haven’t had for a good many years is a decent hood front bezel. Broke mine in about 5 pieces.
well there was a guy that was makin some but I think it fell under.. neither of my 14's have one..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Ok, I have to reopen this thread as I have more info and confusion to share. I only use the tractor in the winter to push snow, hence I finally added the Type A fluid recently. The reason I added fluid was based on a hunch. Last winter I noticed one day fluid leaked some on the snow where it sat for a few minutes, and it also appeared that the transmission was sluggish due possibly to a heavier workload. Also, the transmission has always dripped very slightly, maybe an ounce (one oz.) per year.

I have no sight glass or dipstick to determine level. Last week, I opened the filler cap and noticed I could see innards that due to hunch again, needed to be covered with fluid. So I added about 3/4 qt. Type A which covered the top of those innards (sorry don't know the part name could be pistons?). At any rate, am now getting somewhat of a grinding/binding noise, and I don't have top-end speed like I did. The slight drip remains, but no other leaks or gushing has occurred.

I have the service manual that tells you how to R&R the transmission, but lacks any service info, including changing fluid and filter. Not even a peep about fluid capacity, level indicator or removing air from system. With an idea of capacity, I could drain fluid, refill at say 1/2 to 3/4 capacity, while making small additions for max performance.

The next dilemma is purging air and how determine if this needs to be done.

So, I come to you on this cold wintery fall day in Michiana with hopes you can provide the following and/or other applicable info:

1. Transmission fluid capacity. Also, to drain, do I remove the reservoir pan?
2. How to purge air from system, and whether it's necessary.
3. Purpose of free wheeler valve and how to adjust for better performance.

Thanks all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Quick adder, I meant to include this picture. Shows what I think to be the check level plug (allen plug) in upper right corner which is what Mr. Tudor is addressing in his response above (post #2). If this is correct then I should be able to remove this plug and let drain down to correct level. Concur?
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
Drain plug is on the bottom of the flat pan.
Could you post a pic of your filler tube you say is under the seat as I am aware only of the dipstick fill tub on the side of the transmission or the fill tank under the seat.
If this only started after adding fluid try drawing some out but having said that the version with the tank like mine to my knowledge simply has a fitting instead of a dip stick that a clear tube is attached to and runs up to the tank under the seat. In other words you can’t over fill the trans.I will have to dig out my shop and parts manual to see what the capacity is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
Re read your post with pic. What you are referring to and proposing to remove is a metering valve assembly, I wouldn’t touch it. #100 in my pic. Level is determined by a dip stick or tube and tank attached on the other side of trans. #9 goes into hole #10.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
Slow moving today, I keep thinking of things after I post.? free wheeler valve is supposed to be just that, horizontal Is free wheel and straight up and down is engaged although to tell the truth mine has always been pretty hard to push in free wheel anyway. Hydro-Trans capacity is 3 US quarts. I don’t think there is any real air purging procedure, I never have had to do it when changing fluid. One last thing, the hydro- trans is normally sluggish in cold weather till it warms right up, I usually take it very slow for the first while till I feel the difference and when first starting the motor I keep the clutch in and just let it out slowly and back in quickly a few times before trying let the clutch out and leaving it out. Sure your grinding binding noise is not the belt and or worn idler wheel protesting trying to turn a cold hydro trans?, just a thought.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Great info CNC, thanks. Here's what I have. Attached pic shows filler tube/plug that leads to top of trans (silver nut). There is no dipstick attached to the plug, nor does it appear there ever was one attached. Notice the blank hole. There is nothing down there other than top of trans. casing.

Really appreciate the diagram, but that stick is the breather tube only. I had to bend some to remove it due to flanges and casing. It has no gauging on it to indicate fluid level. Still searching for plug indicator or dipstick.

What really helps is capacity at 3Q. I'll drain and replace 2Q, assess and adjust as necessary. I'll report back when I learn more.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
Ok, I see your problem or at least a problem. First the silver bolt is neither factory or the hydro trans fill. It is the fill / vent for the rear diff., separate to the hydro trans and takes 2 US pints. There is a square plug to drain and a square plug that is 1/2 up the diff housing. Fill through the top till it starts to come out the pug 1/2 way up the diff. That bolt you have should be replaced with a pipe nipple that can accept a piece of rubber tube. Filled to the top and sealed the oil has no place to expand and will force it’s self out of axle seals.
See pics. Next the vent pipe is indeed also the dipstick hole and filler for the hydro trans. might be they did away with the dipstick and just put a vent pipe on some models before going the route of a hose and tank, but as per the parts diagram I posted it shows both. Armed with your serial # I might be able to see if this was the case. In any event the hydro trans needs to be pretty much full to the top and purging is simply running the tractor a few times moving the lever forward and reverse then re checking level. You can see why they added the tank, fill it half way and call it a day.
 

Attachments

·
Moderator
Joined
·
21,369 Posts
2. Purging is not necessary. Operating a hydro as normal will automatically purge air from the system.

3. The freewheel valve is at the top left of the hydro. The operator's side is a long roll pin installed in an offset manner for leverage. It's normal position is vertical for drive or for freewheeling, but I can't remember if the short end of the roll pin is on the top or bottom for either.

The freewheel valve opens a passage between the two sides of the hydro motor to allow fluid to pass back and forth allowing the tractor to be pushed by hand with some resistance. When it is open, the tractor may be able to move under its own power, but it won't be able to do work. When closed, pushing by hand takes a steady force for an extended period of time, but it can do some serious work. There is no fine tuning for that valve. With the handle vertical, it is either open or closed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Update: shocked to learn there were only 1.5 qts. in trans. Say 0.5 qts. didn't drain which totals 2.0 qts when I test drove and experienced binding and noise. Will lacking 1.0 qt. cause binding and noise? There was no debris in the used fluid, and it was relatively clean.

I saw your additional info on pulley and belts which I will inspect. What was really evident was that the range of speed reduced significantly and the noise when load was applied. Still holding out for check level plug or some sort of level indicator. Appreciate any additional info.
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top