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Discussion Starter #1
Here is my dilemma. I have a couple different weight brackets that hang on my 3 point hitch. They work ok, but they sag over time, even with the lockout valve closed. I would like to have a weight bracket that mounts directly to the frame but still allows use of the 3 point hitch. I am not aware of any that are available that don't interfere with the 3 point. I have been looking at the rear of the tractor and I think I could fabricate one that sits just above the 3 point. The one downside I have identified would be a little less stability by the weight being above the axle. Any experience would be appreciated.
 

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Don't rely on the lockout valve to keep the 3pt up. Adjust it so it physically can't drop. Or maybe fabricate something to hold it in position, something that can be removed.


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Discussion Starter #3
That's an interesting suggestion, it might be easier to fabricate a fixed stop that I can easily remove if I want to use the hitch. I'll look at that in the light tomorrow.
 
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Here's a thread on how to lock your 3pt in the up position -

Raise it all the way up and then screw the depth stop screw in. It's a bit wonky how the 3pt works but it does work.

 

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Discussion Starter #5
Screwing that rod in and out is a PITA. I damaged the rod last year. I think it happened when I was using the loader. Must have been when I had lots of weight hanging from the 3 pt and I bounced over a bump, but that’s just a guess. It was absolutely horrible to remove once it was bent. I ended up cutting the rod in half with a sawzall to get it out. Because of this experience I will not use it as the up stop.


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Screwing that rod in and out is a PITA. I damaged the rod last year. I think it happened when I was using the loader. Must have been when I had lots of weight hanging from the 3 pt and I bounced over a bump, but that’s just a guess. It was absolutely horrible to remove once it was bent. I ended up cutting the rod in half with a sawzall to get it out. Because of this experience I will not use it as the up stop.


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Talk to this Guy D&L Creative Concepts | eBay Stores He is a Member Here dternus Bet He could Fabricate a weight Bracket for You! Deere use to Make a rear weight bracket for the 425 thru 455 But finding them can be a PIA Deere also Made a frame Mount Ballast Box for the 425 thru 455 (y)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I think I'm going to go in a slightly different direction and make a bar to lock the 3 point hitch at a fixed height. It will be easy to remove when I want to use the hitch, but keep it up when not in use. I'll post an update if it is successful.
 
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When you have an implement on the 3PH, you don't need the weight bracket or the extra weight.

In the war between hydraulics and gravity, gravity wins every time. Make a habit of dropping the 3PH weights or implements to the ground when you park the tractor. It's really easy to pull the lever to raise them back up when needed.

Locking the 3PH in the raised position with a bar just means more work for you if you need it to be active. A chain is less labour intensive, but you still have to get off of the tractor to release it. Either method will result in shock loads to the 3PH and its mounting points from bumps that would normally be soaked up by the rubber lines on the cylinder.
 

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When you have an implement on the 3PH, you don't need the weight bracket or the extra weight.

In the war between hydraulics and gravity, gravity wins every time. Make a habit of dropping the 3PH weights or implements to the ground when you park the tractor. It's really easy to pull the lever to raise them back up when needed.

Locking the 3PH in the raised position with a bar just means more work for you if you need it to be active. A chain is less labour intensive, but you still have to get off of the tractor to release it. Either method will result in shock loads to the 3PH and its mounting points from bumps that would normally be soaked up by the rubber lines on the cylinder.
He's saying whatever is on the 3 point hitch tends to drop even with the lockout valve closed.


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Discussion Starter #10
It's not an issue when starting out. I always drop the implements when I park. The issue is while I am working the weights on the 3 point can sag. The weight bar has a 2" receiver on the bottom of it. My rock shaft runs on the same circuit as my angle/curl circuit. I have a lockout valve that I keep switched to shut off the 3 point lift when doing most work with the loader or plow. I forget about the weights back there, and then they sag and the bottom of the hitch drags on the ground. I was thinking I could lock it in place then only worry about it when I need to use the 3 point lift.

I could also make a weight bracket that bolts directly to the frame and would allow the 3 point to move independently. I have a drawbar with just a 2" receiver that is light enough that it wouldn't sag the hitch while the tractor is in use. This option is more work, but would be better in the end.
 

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The problem is that the cylinder needs to be resealed. It's leaking internally, which is normal to a limited extent, but gets to be annoying when you have to lift the 3PH every 5 minutes like I had to do with mine just before I retired it.

Unlike the cylinders that JD uses, the ones on the MF1655 are easily rebuildable.
 

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... The issue is while I am working the weights on the 3 point can sag.... My rock shaft runs on the same circuit as my angle/curl circuit. I have a lockout valve that I keep switched to shut off the 3 point lift when doing most work with the loader or plow. I forget about the weights back there, and then they sag and the bottom of the hitch drags on the ground....
yea - you dont want to open the lockout valve to be able to re-lift the 3ph occasionally, because then every time you use the other implement on the front, the weights go up and down at the same time.
but when you close the lockout valve, then you can't raise the weight bracket with hydraulics after it sags... because that circuit is locked out.

The only solution I see is to set up a chain as a "stop" on the 3ph... or other mechanical means.
 

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yea - you dont want to open the lockout valve to be able to re-lift the 3ph occasionally, because then every time you use the other implement on the front, the weights go up and down at the same time.
but when you close the lockout valve, then you can't raise the weight bracket with hydraulics after it sags... because that circuit is locked out.

The only solution I see is to set up a chain as a "stop" on the 3ph... or other mechanical means.
He has the threaded depth stop On his 3 point to lock it up But doesn't want to use it(as it sounds like he stripped it once) The OEM Lock out Valve is not a true Lock out Valve it is really a diverter Valve as the design was suppose to Let some of the Hydraulic fluid still go into the On Board Hydraulic cylinder as Deere engineers did Not want the On Board Hydraulic cylinder to dry out of Hydraulic fluid!

Now this after Market Hydraulic lock out Valve Heavy Duty Lockout Valve For Loader Lift Applications 425 - is a True Lock Out Valve and Not a diverter Valve

Now to the Original Poster replace Your 3 point depth stop and Invest In this tool Amazon.com: BAL R.V. Products Group 21100003 Cordless Drill Adapter: Automotive Then You Can use a cordless drill to Lock & Unlock the depth stop (y)
 

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thanks for the clarifications.
The lockout valve - even if fully closed (ie aftermarket one) - will not necessarily solve the problem... especially if the cylinder has a slow leak around the piston... it will result in a sag no matter what.
On the comment of deere engineers not wanting the cylinder to dry out?... Huh?... how is oil trapped inside a tube supposed to dry out??... I mean these are long-life tractors, but i'm quite sure they won't live for 5,000 years..... so i find this very strange.... maybe there is another reason?

isn't the threaded stop there exactly for this purpose?... if memory serves me corrrectly - it is a thick 3/4 or 1" rod?.. how does one strip it??... to strip it you would need a 4-foot wrench!?... but regardless - perhaps a secondary nut on the rod can serve as the lock so that the existing nut does not have to go over the stripped area?... or perhaps one can drill a thin hole through the rod and put a pin through it instead?... i wouldnt think a 2-3mm hole isnt going to affect the rods' structural integrity....

cheers!
 

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thanks for the clarifications.
The lockout valve - even if fully closed (ie aftermarket one) - will not necessarily solve the problem... especially if the cylinder has a slow leak around the piston... it will result in a sag no matter what.
On the comment of deere engineers not wanting the cylinder to dry out?... Huh?... how is oil trapped inside a tube supposed to dry out??... I mean these are long-life tractors, but i'm quite sure they won't live for 5,000 years..... so i find this very strange.... maybe there is another reason?

isn't the threaded stop there exactly for this purpose?... if memory serves me corrrectly - it is a thick 3/4 or 1" rod?.. how does one strip it??... to strip it you would need a 4-foot wrench!?... but regardless - perhaps a secondary nut on the rod can serve as the lock so that the existing nut does not have to go over the stripped area?... or perhaps one can drill a thin hole through the rod and put a pin through it instead?... i wouldnt think a 2-3mm hole isnt going to affect the rods' structural integrity....

cheers!
Well that what they told me when I interviewed a few of the Deere design engineers for a Book I was writing at one time They purposely designed it to be a diverter Valve that does not cut off the Hydraulic fluid supply completely .

Well I I stripped the threaded Rod Myself on the depth stop rod. It can be done I replaced it so I know exactly what the OP is Talking about.

The rod has a Pin already through one end of the Depth stop rod for turning it
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Mine didn’t strip, it bent. Because it bent. It wouldn’t thread out so I had to cut it in half with a sawzall to replace it. I don’t know exactly why it bent. I do know it was a major fight to fix it.


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The lockout valve - even if fully closed (ie aftermarket one) - will not necessarily solve the problem... especially if the cylinder has a slow leak around the piston... it will result in a sag no matter what.
Absolutely true! Oil is sneaky and will find a way out no matter how well sealed a container happens to be. It just takes time.

I have a vertical log splitter for the 3PH of my GT. It plugs into the hydraulics with quick connects that have check valves. The splitting wedge is mounted to the cylinder rod and weighs about 15 lb, It was parked with the rod fully retracted when last used and left to sit in storage for several years. Last year, I had a reason to get it back in service and just the weight of the head had caused the rod to extend about 10" from the 3.5" diameter cylinder.

The head put the hydraulic fluid under about a 2 psi pressure. Four suitcase weights will put the fluid under about 50 psi with a 2" cylinder. Unlike the log splitter sitting inactive on the ground. the suitcase weights are an active load as the tractor travels over less than glass smooth ground. It is going to sag if only the hydraulics are used to hold it up, even if there is a fully closed lock up valve in a line..

How much it sags depends on the condition of the cylinder seals and the time involved. A cylinder in good condition will hold the load all day with a minimal amount of sag. If the seals are in poor condition, it won't even lift the load with the full output of the pump.

Seal leakage never gets better. It gets worse with time and use. Eventually, that cylinder will have to be repaired or replaced. Using a mechanical lock to keep the hitch raised means extra work when you do need to use it as designed. As a young man in good physical condition, I was not averse to a little extra work here and there. As an old fogey with decades of accumulated physical damage, sorry, not interested.
 

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Mine didn’t strip, it bent. Because it bent. It wouldn’t thread out so I had to cut it in half with a sawzall to replace it. I don’t know exactly why it bent. I do know it was a major fight to fix it.


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I hate to admit it, but I not only bent the one on my 739, I broke it.
I don’t know the mechanics of what caused it to bend and break, but I‘m pretty sure I know what I did to cause it.

I apologize for my lack of technical terms, but the place, on the rock shaft, where the depth stop rod is, has a pair of ears. One on each side of the rod. The roll pin, on the depth stop, will not screw in past those ears. I noticed that, even with the stop screwed in, the rock shaft still move an inch or so, when I raised or lowered my deck. It didn’t cause a problem, but I had to mess with it anyway.

I found that with the rock shaft raised all the way up, with the hydraulics, I could still pull the rock shaft up an inch or more, so I was able to screw the depth stop in further. I was actually able the screw the stop in finger tight before the roll pin contacted the ears. This stopped the rock shaft from moving, but I noticed that when the deck hit the upper or lower stops, I could feel the tractor sort of twist, and I couldn’t remember that happening before. It was a couple months from the end of mowing season, so I thought it would be OK until I could take it to Deere, and have them look at it.

Several weeks later, I can’t remember if I was raising or lowering the deck, but one day I hear this loud PING. Got off the tractor and looked, and the rod had broken.

When I replaced it, I put a piece of 1/2 inch pvc between the roll pin, and the big round piece of steel that the rod goes through, so I can’t screw it in too far again. I also noticed that the twisting problem stopped, and I assume it was because the stop wasn’t screwed in so far.
 

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Even though it is a pain to adjust the depth stop and removing those bent depth stops is a royal pain (been there done that), a stop bar might have its own challenges. The cylinder will still leak and the 3 pt will settle on the stop bar. The stop bar will need to fit well enough to support the 3 pt AND the weight on the 3 pt, plus prevent the 3 pt from lifting in the case of bumps etc. I would recommend any design be duplicated from side to side.
 
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