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Gravelyyard.com
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A theory well supported by what is known Ron. Perhaps what happened to mine.

Some questions I'd like to hear your thoughts on.

In the scenarios you suggest, do you think a space of frame way up under on the frame, and hidden might be missed entirely?

Perhaps the pics of the underside of the running boards do not prove they had no red paint ever. I need to examine those areas a little closer.

Also, in the discussions earlier in the thread concerning whether the engine is a CKK (tag on black tin) or a CKKA (what the PO believed it to be) do you agree with Dave and John it most likely is the original CKKA? i did not have enough experience to recognize the tin might be from somewhere else. Sure am on a new learning curve here. Here's the pic of that tag.

A couple of more different questions. Regarding my post #6 in this thread? This is a tag from a newer Onan engine than the CCKA - a B48 I believe? Could it be used as a re-power on a Gravely? What would be needed to do so? Can we tell what it's year of manufacture is? What is your opinion of it's value, coming with the tractor in post #6?

I'm happy to hear all opinions on these questions guys.

As always thanks for your time.
On the missed spots on the bottom, yes, this would be common. Remember, these are assembled tractors with minimal disassembly fro painting. There would be variances between dealers, depending lots of stuff, like how good the painter was, how big of a hurry they were in, ect. The factory would have been very consistent if they were repainted there.

From the looks of the engine, matching red paint over yellow, I would agree that it is most likely the original engine. The black tin is just a replacement for the lost original tin. Gravely never used a CCK and a CCK replacement engine would need the crank replaced with the Gravely stepped shaft. Not sure if that would be easy. That's a boomer question.

Replacing the CCKA with a B48 would require that stepped shaft. If a CCKA shaft would not fit a B48, you would have to get the B48 shaft machined to fit the double drive gear. How broke are you willing to be? :sidelaugh
 

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Discussion Starter #44
Thanks Ron. i was actually thinking of the B48 on a different tractor.

Does anyone know what an Onan B48 Gravely compatable crankshaft costs?
 

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Discussion Starter #46
I have to put a different engine on my sister's 8122 at some point. I like the idea of a twin cylinder and thought perhaps a modification was a workable idea.

I believe Richard-tx did some of that to use Onans. Just investigating an idea.
 

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club
al, has asked me to join the party here. ( this thread )
i agree with wjohn, the engine tag says miller welder,
1106 F.
onan did not start the spin on filter until spec G.
SO, i believe this is a matter of the wrong side tin.

as to the B and P engines they both will work,
the gravely crank will be needed ( the sears engine shown is to short )
the OTHER MAIN thing most of these were not drilled for
the top two bolts of the adapter plate. ( some have pilot holes)

i do stock NOS cranks for the B 43/48
as well as the CCKA and big block. ( P 224 and CCKA use the same one )
thank you. boomer ( the used onan engine parts guy )
 

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Discussion Starter #48 (Edited)
I got a little time on the 450 over a warm weekend. First is to just start understanding what i am looking at. A mess! I'm asking several questions here, so if you're in a hurry, just answer one. Perhaps someone else will answer another etc. And many thanks for the help. Your time is very appreciated.

Well I knew it was a mess to be honest. ALL the wiring is totally suspect. So is the fuel delivery system. Some evidence to that:
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[/URL][/IMG] I plan to re-wire everything. I will be carefully mapping out all current connections, checking the diagrams i have collected and probably asking questions here

I'm not sure what I have in the points box, as I've never looked in one. Is anything obvious i should know about? In the picture above you can see the box is missing one of it's screws. I'll find a replacement. Hopefully being partially open like that didn't create some problem.
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I plan to just start replacing suspect stuff so i am not chasing everything. One of the first will be the ignition switch of course. Actually that appears to be one of he newer components, but it's getting replaced. Is this the correct ignition switch can anyone say? What is the ideal one to put in an older 400 series w/CCKA
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The coil(s) are probably something I should just install something I know is functioning correctly. I think the original is on the tire here.
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The current one is barely held in place and the wires to the spark plugs are cracked and brittle. Ideas about sourcing and so on? Should I replace the wires and see if this one is working? or just replace it?
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Pulled the dipstick and found a very thin sustance way above the fill line, and it smells like gasoline. BTDT with my Kohler Magnums. I guess that means we'll get any cruddy stuff cleared out. How the gasoline got in there? Is that the same as would be the case in my Kohlers?
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I hope the starter will crank. The PO said he was cranking it but it would not catch. His efforts look to be sort of helter skelter.
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OK, first dumb question - or am I up to 2 or 3 already? Is this a 6v sytem or 12v? The battery is not labeled either. How does one tell?

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Well I knew this would be a big challenge - AND a big learning curve for me. I feel like I did 5 years ago when I first tackled working on the Kohlers I have come to understand some. Thank goodness for MTF!
 

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Good to see you diving into your 450. Whatever the sequence you decide to do everything else, I would change the oil, and remove the top half of the carburetor for inspection, and cleaning before you even try spinning the starter. It sounds like gas in your oil. Engaging the starter could send gas through your engine. The float could be bad, or the float needle is hung up, so that the bowl overflowed, and gas got into the engine.
It's also possible that your fuel pump, or fuel pump gasket is bad, and fuel was pumped into the engine.

As for the ignition switch, it does look newer. I don't know how many posts 450 switches have. Maybe someone with a 450 could check and let you know. Maybe which color wire goes to which post too. I did notice a hanging wire with a connecter that looks like it would connect to the ignition switch, as well as a switch post that appears to not have a wire connected to it.

The points box is complete with the points set on the left, and the condenser on the right. The points are removed via the two identical screws, and the machine screw at the top. The single different looking screw between the mounting screws is for adjusting the points gap.

And it's a 12 volt system. Don't forget to make sure that there is a good ground from the ignition switch to the frame (sometimes rust builds up between the dash tower and the frame) and the battery to ground connection.

Let's see, did I leave anything out? Oh yeah! I see that your tractor has the "Lightening Bolt" gas saver. It looks like a bolt (hence the name). It was inserted in the fuel line, and was guaranteed to increase gas mileage by 100%, and reduce engine noise 100%. And both at the same time! I don't know how they did it! :D
 

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Well this is timely.
In the picture that shows the fuel lines: the hard line from the fuel pump goes to the carb, the rubber line comes from the gas tank.
Along with what TT said about pulling the top of the carb off I'd open up the fuel pump too just to make sure it's clean and usable.
Now here's the timely part, I just got the gasket kits in today from Onan parts so I'll include part numbers for what I got. Basically most of the top end gaskets and a rebuild kit for the fuel pump.

The fuel pump kit, 0149-0526 $79 QTY 1
Onan fuel pump

Carb kit 0142-0033 $12.50 Marvel-Schebler VD Series Gasket Kit QTY 1
New Onan Carburator

Muffler gasket 0154-2806 $3.75 QTY 2
Individual gaskets : Onan Parts.Com, Rebuild Parts for Onan engines

Intake/exhaust gasket 0154-2769 $8.75 QTY 1
Individual gaskets : Onan Parts.Com, Rebuild Parts for Onan engines

I also ordered the valve cover gaskets because mine leak.
0110-3606 QTY 2 $3
Individual gaskets : Onan Parts.Com, Rebuild Parts for Onan engines

The quantities I listed are what you need to order, the QTY 2 are single gaskets and the price is doubled of whats posted.
You also need to make sure to double check the part numbers against what I bought as onan parts has a very strict no return policy. I'm assuming your CCKA and mine are the same.
There are other replacement options for the fuel pump if you want to do this cheaper, I opted not to because the kit is available and I've spent more on other parts. Plus the pump has lasted this long so a fresh rebuild and it should outlast me.
 

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don
i,m wondering why you did not order
the two head gskts?
this way you could do a de/carbon job,
and adjust the valves.

club i do stock all of the above mentioned parts.
thank you. boomer ( the used onan engine parts guy, also NOS and new )
 

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Boomer do you have a web site? I ordered where I did based on a google search. Decarbon job to come a little later.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
Good to see you diving into your 450. . . . . . I see that your tractor has the "Lightening Bolt" gas saver.. . . . .
Not so sure I am ready to do my usual dive Dave. The reason I stayed away from Onan engines until now is i feel quite intimidated by them. This will be Basic and slow steady as you go. Thanks for filling in some blanks.

Yeah the Lightning Bolt gas saver! Too funny. Old Al who I bought this from had a isolated gravity feed gasoline tank on there. Since he didn't get it started we found a lower number to agree on.

I'm in no hurry to crank it - probably a good distance off. Your thoughts on where to start are helpful. I see so many things that have to be addressed.

Also good to get the basics about the points box and which screws do which function. That's the kind of basics I need.

I have been reading and reading about CCKAs. For example in DJs thread he discusses adding a point saver and
showed this close up of the points box.


Mine looks a little different

I was happy to hear it is all there. What is that item in the center that is not in DJ's engine?
 

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Discussion Starter #56
canary al
the green coil is NOT for this engine.
it is for a CCK gen set engine that
used a magneto ignition.
thank you. boomer
Thanks Boomer, and thanks for stopping in.

I sure would like to know how a genset coil got placed with this. Maybe it came along with the CCK tins from the miller welder, which are believed to not have been originally with my CCKA

Perhaps it should just be tossed? Is there any way to determine if it is still working properly?

Any point in trying to use the coil that is there? Or is it better to just be sure and find a new one? Do you have them in stock Boomer, and how expensive are they? I'm sure we will be doing some business.

Well this is timely. . . . . .
Now here's the timely part.
Thanks Don. So I need these gaskets to go through everything in the carb and fuel pump - installing my new muffler etc. - yeah I jumped on that one at Jacks the moment Rick posted about them. I hope you will be posting about what you are doing as you go through it. I sure will be watching.

I need some basics on this "de/carbon job" - I understand carbon can build up over time. The heads should be taken off? How then is the carbon removed? Good Heavens, I have to learn how to adjust valves!:maddd:
 

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Gravely1964
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With me now being a member of the running 450 club :thThumbsU

If I can be of any help let me know. I've only changed spark plugs so far. So im not a ton of help :hide:

Anyhow I got pics though :thThumbsU

P1020502.JPG

Haven't had the hood off yet so no help with ye old key switch either :hide:
 

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Gravely1964
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Not so sure I am ready to do my usual dive Dave. The reason I stayed away from Onan engines until now is i feel quite intimidated by them. This will be Basic and slow steady as you go. Thanks for filling in some blanks.

Yeah the Lightning Bolt gas saver! Too funny. Old Al who I bought this from had a isolated gravity feed gasoline tank on there. Since he didn't get it started we found a lower number to agree on.

I'm in no hurry to crank it - probably a good distance off. Your thoughts on where to start are helpful. I see so many things that have to be addressed.

Also good to get the basics about the points box and which screws do which function. That's the kind of basics I need.

I have been reading and reading about CCKAs. For example in DJs thread he discusses adding a point saver and
showed this close up of the points box.


Mine looks a little different

I was happy to hear it is all there. What is that item in the center that is not in DJ's engine?
Well that would be the points rod or plunger. Basically what opens the points. If you look real close its not in Dj's because its not on the motor :fing32:

Guess Dj don't carry the motor around with the points box :sidelaugh
 

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Discussion Starter #59
Well this is timely.
In the picture that shows the fuel lines: the hard line from the fuel pump goes to the carb, the rubber line comes from the gas tank.
.
This picture Don?


Thanks Don. That makes sense now. I was looking at all that and couldn't figure what the old guy had been doing? Why such a big loop of gas line from the pump to the carb? etc.
 

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Thanks Don. So I need these gaskets to go through everything in the carb and fuel pump - installing my new muffler etc. - yeah I jumped on that one at Jacks the moment Rick posted about them. I hope you will be posting about what you are doing as you go through it. I sure will be watching.

I need some basics on this "de/carbon job" - I understand carbon can build up over time. The heads should be taken off? How then is the carbon removed? Good Heavens, I have to learn how to adjust valves!:maddd:
Al I'm off shift the next few days and I'm hoping to get this done. I'll grab pictures for you.
De/carbon job, yup pull the heads. I usually use a brass scraper to knock the chunks off and finish with a fine wire wheel to polish in my dremel. The brass scraper is something I made from flat bar when I worked at the shipyard. You can use aluminum too or just about anything the is soft enough to not damage the head but hard enough to remove the carbon. You could use a flat tip screw driver but be very careful with the head.
Adjusting the valves isn't hard either, while the heads are off turn the motor over by hand to make sure the valve is seated, check the gap with the right sized feeler gage (I need to look that up) and turn the adjuster with a wrench until there is a slight drag on the feeler gage, not sure of the wrench size either as this is my first Onan too. Repeat until all four valves are done.
Anything else you need pictures of let me know.
 
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