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There are no more super garden tractors anymore.
You might argue that because the X595/X748/X758 dont have a 2 spd rearend that they arent in the same class as the 430 but I think 4WD/AWD make them even more capable at least for my needs. I do get the argument around plastic panels depending on how you want to use the machine though. But even that is a tradeoff between how good they look in the long run wo a paint job vs how much abuse they can survive. For me, thats an easy one as my painting skills suck but I'm pretty good with a power washer and polisher.
 

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I think the X700 series qualifies as a super garden tractor. I believe it is the last of the breed. The market now calls them SCUTs. There are a bunch of SCUTs from many different manufacturers. Like pretty much everything, they got super sized.

I remember when the Civic was a small car. I had a '90 Civic Si. It was a small car then, but had already grown significantly larger than the Civic of the 80's. My nephew has a new Civic. It is bigger than the Accord of the 90's. It is the same thing with garden tractors they keep getting bigger. Since many believe bigger is better, it just makes sense that things get bigger.

While there are some people who like the classics, most just want something that does the job that they need done. I don't really need one, but I do want a "baby" tractor. I already have a CUT to do my big tractor jobs. It is both too small and too big. There are a few tasks where having more weight and more capacity would be helpful. There are more jobs where I really need more agility and stability (lower CG). I could put wheel spacers on to increase stability. Not sure exactly how much it would help, but it would also probably decrease agility. I also upgraded from an X300 to an X534. It does a lot better, but I am not sure it really mows better. The extra weight causes more compaction and leaves marks on the lawn. My X300 with AGs never did that. So, for mowing more weight in not better.

I think of the 430 like a do a truck from the 40's or 50's. I really like the style of them and a nice one is very nice, but I would much rather drive my Ridgeline to the lumberyard. It rides and drives like a large sedan. Most trucks drive like a truck. You can do a LOT more with a "real" truck, for sure. When I need that done, I hire someone to deliver the 10 yards of gravel. I don't need to be driving/paying for capability I don't need most of the time.

But, whatever works for you is great. I had a friend who liked big things. He got a CDL just so he could drive his big rig around. He really liked big things, others like fast things. I like agile things.
 

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“The 430 is around 1,200 lbs without a deck, the 425 is only around 850 or so.”

Frankly I thought that all 4xx models were similar in capacity but that’s certainly a meaningful weight difference. For my needs both machines would get the job done but if someone wanted to pull a plow the 430 would be the ticket.
 

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Discussion Starter #204
When my neighbor brought the 430 home he used a borrowed 5x10ft single axle trailer. The trailer had a 1,500 lb capacity and it was pretty much maxed out if not overloaded with that 430 on it with its deck.
Keep in mind that most weights given by the manufacturers tend to be 'dry' weights, meaning without any fluids.
So figure if the bare machine weighs in at 1170, add in the weight of the coolant, hydraulic oil and engine oil, plus a 357 lb deck, and your likely pushing close to 1,550 lbs with a full tank of fuel.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that someone did a comparison weighed a 430 and a same era Kubota G series diesel and the JD weighed in at something like 1,780 lbs 'as tested' with two 75 lb JD rear wheel weights and a three point hitch installed. (It was noted that they added the two wheel weights because the Kubota came with rear wheel weights). It made the Kubota look like a toy at almost half the weight of the Deere 430. It was clear they weren't in the same category other than both had 3 cylinder diesel engines and 19 and 20hp. The Kubota was closer weight wise with the 455 and earlier 332 models but still even lighter than either of those. .

The 430 is sort of in a class of its own, none of the other diesel garden tractors come anywhere close it the 430 in size, weight or ability. To me it looked like they had taken the hood, grill, and engine from a CUT and built a garden tractor around it.
 

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Actually, the Simplicity 4040 has nearly identical dimensions to the JD 430. I thought it actually is heavier, even though it has an air-cooled twin Onan. Too bad they made those before use of diesels became common. Something unique to Simplicity/AC was the three range hydro.
 

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Sounds like the modern day equivalent of the 430 is the 1023e. But, the 1023e weighs more and has 4WD. If you need more tractor and less mower that or the 1025r are good choices. Tractor Time with Tim really loves his. SCUTs are really popular, some people use them to mow and like them. I think they are good when some tractoring done, but don't have too big of a job.
 

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That is a big but. The 430 era equivalent of the 1023/1025 was the 755/855, both also great machines that have been under significant price pressure the past few years.
 

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I think I have a good comparison, and it’s been mentioned above. I also collect Savage 1899/99’s. The Savage forum I hang out on is made up of almost every 1899 collector in the world. If every one on that forum committed to buy a new 99, it would not be worth it to tool up to make a run. Same here. All the people here, that love the 318/430’s, are pretty much it. When we go to my farm for a range weekend, the 30’ish guys may be realy Impressed that I can hit a golf ball at a 100 yards with my 1912, 22 HiPower, with a 3 power Malcolm scope. They may want to shoot it. But, they don’t want one. The people that want those cool old tractors are getting fewer and fewer.
 

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I think by John Deere's line of progression, the 430 was the first of its class, then it was replaced by the 455, then the x495, then the X740, but size and weight don't stay consistent. They got lighter, had more plastic, less metal and got more compact. JD most likely was trying to make them more appealing to the larger homeowner customer base rather than the much fewer large estate owner. I think the 430 is more on the commercial side than its newer replacements. As time went on JD seems to aim more for a broader customer base rather than just building an ultra heavy duty tractor.
As far as I'm concerned plastic (Poly carbonate) as no place on a tractor, it doesn't take cold weather well, it doesn't age well, and is extremely hard to repair. If I'm buying a tractor, I want something that can take a certain level of abuse, not something that brushing too close to some tree branch or plowing snow in the winter is going to leave me without a chunk of hood or grill, In colder climates, its rare to find a 455 or any newer machine with a few years on it that doesn't have some sort of damage to its hood or grill. I was never a fan of John Deere's use of fiberglass either, but I dislike plastic even more. I don't see why they just didn't do a stamped steel hood like so many others.

I think the goal of the 430 was to make a CUT that would work for the homeowner and light commercial owner, in do so they created a whole new category. The price likely put it out of reach for many intended customers, as does the price of many new machines today. Not many home owners can or will fork over $11k to 17k for a mower. Its likely the reason why they now sell cheap junk in the big box stores to get at least a piece of that market.
When the 430 was built, Home Depot and Lowes weren't even a side thought I suppose, the idea of a JD in a department store wasn't part of the plan. They were still building machines that they built their reputation on, as time went on, that all seemed to change
That holds true for most other brands as well. Cub Cadet sold out in 1980 to MTD, Allis Chalmers/Simplicity went away from their tried and true design around 1987, Bolens did the same around that time. JD is one of the only brands that are still under the same ownership as back in the day. Bolens and CC are MTD, AC. is and Agco brand, and Simplciity was part of Briggs Stratton and now it appears they've been sold off again. Kubota I believe is still its own company as well although production these days isn't solely in Japan and they've had their issues as well with quality.

I think a few magazines did comparisons back in the day, just about everyone I remember put the 430 out on top with the only complaints being that its too big to haul in a pickup truck, or that it was the most expensive machine tested.
Not one ever complained about its design or build quality. I do remember a few commenting about how easy it was on fuel compared to the competition.
It would be pretty cool to see someone do a comparison now on those same 80's era machines to see how they held up and which one's lasted the longest. My guess is that the 430 would come out on top again. The simple fact that we're still talking about a model that was built no less than 28 years ago, and not any of the other brands says a lot.
Even though the 430 likely wasn't sold in huge numbers, I seriously doubt the competition sold anywhere near as many diesel tractors in those years. If they did, where are they now? Its super rare around here to see an older Kubota G series or a Cub Cadet with a Kubota diesel. Its even rarer to find an old diesel Bolens HT or a Simplicity 7790H with a Lombardini in it. They either didn't sell that many or they didn't last. (Try finding parts for an air cooled Lombardini twin these days). At least with the John Deere, they still support most if not all major parts on the older models.
 

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Knock on wood, I've never had an issue with my 17 year old 1100 machine hour plastic and it clears its fair share of snow/ice in all temps. It also looks like new with maybe 10 mins of polishing every spring. My 25 year old 1500 machine hour metal paneled mower looks like a 25 year old machine that needs a refresh. Plastic seems like a good compromise to me for this machines intended purpose. I'm not a big fan of it on my similar vintage CUT but haven't had any issues with it either.
 

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Discussion Starter #211
I talked to my neighbor with the 430 this afternoon, he said he had a few calls on the tractor but so far no one has shown up to see it. He said some guy he spoke to emailed saying he had to have it, said he was going to come see it on Sunday but never showed. Another guy emailed a few times, said he wanted it but never showed up today either. The count so far is only 4 people to email the ad, three to call, and none to actually come look at the tractor. When i was down there this morning he was using it to pull a 10ft trailer around full of from a guy two doors down that just dug a new septic system. He was using that to move the trailer and using my old Simplicity to level the dirt out with a belly scraper and dozer blade.
He said he also used the 430 last week to pull a tow behind mower to clear a tall grass field for some guy up the road.
There's no doubt its a capable machine, the lot he cleared was a good mile or so away, and he picked up the mower on the way there from another buddy of his. From what he said, the field had grass and weeds 3ft tall, so a mower deck wasn't an option. He said the mower was wheel driven, and pulled simply on the hitch off to one side. It sounds like a mini hay cutter or similar to me.
He's probably put about 4 or 5 hours on it in the last month.

I'm most surprised at how fast they start for being diesel, every diesel truck or tractor I ever had took a long time to crank to start, that thing kicks off almost instantly after the glow plugs cycle.

He moved about 5 yards of dirt in about 5 or 6 trips from up the street. I took the thing for a ride just for the **** of it and in high gear, that thing really gets moving. Its twice as fast as my Simplicity 7116 which I thought was pretty fast for a garden tractor. It was fast enough I wouldn't dare try to make any quick turns.
Power steering is also nice.
 

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Bought a used 430 and ran it for many years.

It was always very easy to start.

Wish now that I would have kept it so I could join the 'collectors' club :cool:
 

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Really, it finally sold? I was tempted to drive down there and buy it just to end this thread!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Well I'm glad it finally sold! Even if you didn't get it, Mark.

And TrakFan, ha, if it's only 1170, then I'm glad I didn't waste my time and try to buy it :)
 

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So after all the discussion about what a 430 is worth - does anyone know what it ended up selling for? Glad to hear it sold for both the buyer and seller. If both of them are happy that's all that matters!
 

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Hopefully it doesn't mean there will be a flurry of 430 parts popping up on eBay now.

Its about time someone saw that had some cash in hand. I've been watching several other ads on CL that are just lingering, in that area for no good reason.
My take is that the area has no cash. Even at face value that thing is worth more than what they were asking.

From what I can see, there's no dealers in that area, so JD and CC are likely unknown there or out of reach of most buyers beyond what's available at HD.
There's no other way to explain it other than economics in the area. A diesel anything would sell in hours in most areas.
 
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