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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bough a massey ferguson 1450 made by snapper. its got the good sundstrand rear end. i was wondering if there was a possibility to make it 4×4? a bigger engine is on the way aswell as loader plans. instead of buying a 25000$ tractor i wanted to make my own! is it possible to put a rear end from another tractor in the front? has anyone done this and can it be done? thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
the massey ferguson 1450 is pretty big but i get your point. even if it would be complicated could it still be done? the new john deere diesel garden tractors have an awd system and previous models had a 4x4 system. i was looking to do something similar!
 

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Given enough time money and effort, sure it can be done.

I would expect it to be fairly difficult to find a front axle with the right gear ratio, get power to the front axle while not interfering with anything you want to keep.

If the tractor was a model where 4wd was an option for it, I would say it would be more likely to be fairly straightforward (assuming you could find a 4wd model you can use for parts), but if it wasn't, you probably wind up designing/making a new tractor using parts from your 1450 and other tractors...
 

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Unless you have a bunch of fabrication experience, and equipment to do it, and parts machines, it will be faster, easier and cheaper just to find another similarly capable tractor with a 4wd system.
 

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Yes... Grasshopper I admire your ambitions but my honest opinion is that trying to replicate a $25k 4WD with a loader on that chassis is just not going to work.

If I were you I'd clean that thing up, sell for profit and climb on up the totem pole to the next, better machine. Lather/rinse/repeat until your skills and inventory increase. You gotta learn to walk before you try to fly.

One step at a time. (y)
 

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I see little Kubota 4x4s all the time for $1500-$2500. That would be the direction I would go if I wanted a small 4x4 tractor.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
i got my inspiration from norman(isavetractors). he converted his cub cadet with a backo and front end loader. i talked to paul from pf engineering and he's done alot of attachements for tractors these size. my little massey has a sundtrand 15 which is found on thr bigger john deere 400's. i thought it was the perfect machine to start with. for sure im going to repower it. most likely with a honda gx690 or the newer igx700/igx800. i wanted to go all out and convert it to a 4x4 aswell. for example massey ferguson sells a gc1725 thats not really bigger and it has 4 wheel drive. i didn't got the chance to look underneath but im guessing the front is powered with a transfercase/shaft setup opposed to a belt driven one. do they even make belt driven 4x4 tractors? a front end swap would be easy if it does infact exist. here small diesel tractors sells for atleast 7000+. i paid very little for my 1450 so i thought it would be a good base.
 

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Well, you are free to ignore our advice, but at the very least, you need to find a front differential (with the right gear ratio, and you come up with some way to hook it up to the rear axle/engine so it spins at the right speed), if not a whole 4wd system, that you can look at and see how it fits in with your 1450 frame. Most likely, you'll find a bunch of things in the 1450 frame that are in the way and/or have to be modified, that you decide you need to make a whole new frame and at that point, you are designing a tractor.

It can be done, but you will need a bunch of money and/or a bunch of fairly expensive equipment (mill, lathe, welder) and knowledge of how to use them, and then expect to have to repeatedly go back and reworked things over and over again as you build it, because something is in the way of something else.

To me, it sounds like you have little to no experience fabricating things, no equipment needed to build it (nor the knowledge of how to use them). And if you have to pay someone else to do that work, save money and just buy a new tractor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
not at all! im taking all of you guys advice! i thank everyone for participating in this topic! my main concern is that the engine on the masseys and many garden tractors are mounted sideways. they use a horizontal shaft engine and the pulleys are either mounted to the right side of the chassie or the left side. To make it less difficult i would make into an all time 4x4 unit. so no need to build an actuator for it! The main reason i would want to build it is because of traction. the tractor will be used on a property to prep land for a house foundation. haul dirt, dig dirt, getting stumps out of the ground and to run a bush hog. when all of that is finished i will use it to haul around logs and mow grass. i do infact have knowledge in fabrication/welding. i have all the tools necessary(welder included). Im just trying to understand what it would require to do the swap and how much money it would cost in the end. i have trouble wrapping my head around how a 4x4 system would be possible on a belt driven tractor.
 

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So you also have a mill and a lathe? What would be the biggest project you've fabricated?

You need the 4wd system to even have a balllpark on what the cost would be, as that's the biggest cost driver and determines what you need to modify.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
i have the basics. rat tail multi size grinder, several other grinders, band saw, drill press, multi purpose welder and a cut off saw on its way. i have build a wooden stove many other projects. but pretty new to the mechanical stuff, still learning to this date. i will be on my search for a tractor axle. if i can find one for an affordable price i may end up going along with this project but if not. ill flip it like many recommended. it will be pretty complicated since the rear end is infinitely variable. The option of connecting the front directly to the engine is pretty much impossible. i will have to either get another trans hooked up to the front axle or get a set of clutches running from a pulley directly from the engine. im not sure if you would be able to hook up 2 transmission together instead of running them seperately. Its some pretty complicated stuff!
 

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ry596,

I would find the house next door to jdcrawler and buy it!

I just don't see the belts doing the job on the load of work you describe.

Belts stay in the yard, IMO.

CCMoe
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
ccmoe i had the same exact thought! i would need to make something stronger because the belt will keep slipping under heavy load.

Thanks steve! your a life saver !! i was looking for something like you send me! the atv axle or mower axle is genious!! definitely going that route!
 

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ccmoe i had the same exact thought! i would need to make something stronger because the belt will keep slipping under heavy load.

Thanks steve! your a life saver !! i was looking for something like you send me! the atv axle or mower axle is genious!! definitely going that route!
Here's another build on a Cub Cadet. Guy has a bunch of videos on it. Check his page out and sort his vids by age so you can watch them in order.


 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
i have to local guys that sell tractor parts and atv parts. ill check with him to see whats he's got but i think ill go ahead and continue on this swap! sorry to all the nay sayers but i think the cheapest route will be on building my own tractor. the 1450 was bought in another province. i will be getting it the 30th off october. plans for the loader and backo were already bought! my local honda dealership quoted me 2500$ canadian for a honda gx690 engine. either ill go with that or wait for the newer igx series that will come out in 2021!
 

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I have a MF1655/FEL, as well as a MF GC2310 TLB which is the earlier version of the GC 1725.

The drive line in the 1450 and 1655 are arranged in inline north/south, not east/west across the tractor. The 1450 is shaft drive from the engine to the transmission. The 1655 is (twin) belt drive from the engine down to the shaft driving the transmission, and it is more than strong enough for heavy duty applications. The rear of both from just in front of the dash tower to the back of the tractor is identical. The 1655 is 4" longer ahead of the dash tower to accommodate the longer Onan twin cylinder engine, and the front axle has an enormous axle pivot courtesy of the front/mid PTO shaft that runs through it, and sufficient substructure to support it. This is important as will be noted later!

The front wheel drive on the GC originates in the final drive at the rear axle and exits the transaxle case in the front with a drive shaft to connect to a crown and pinion in the front axle. This cannot be duplicated with the Sundstrand hydro/ Peerless 2500 final drive. While it is possible, with enough mental effort, to devise a second transmission/final drive for the front axle, the space is not available to install it, if you want one strong enough for FEL duty.

The idea of using the 4wd system from an ATV has merit . . . for a lawn mower, not for a FEL. Forgive me for not knowing how much a fully loaded ATV weighs, but my 1655 with the loader and loaded tires with chains weighs 2000 lb scaled weight. Here comes the important part mentioned earlier, every 100 lb of payload in the bucket adds 160 lb to the load carried by the front tires. A 500 lb payload translates into 800 lb, plus the weight of the loader (400 - 500 lb), plus the weight of the tractor normally carried by the front tires (300 lb +) for a total of 1500 - 1600 lb +. I've had the load on the front tires of my 1655 up over 3000 lb with the rear wheels in the air.

I have over 2000 hours on my 1655/FEL, and over 1000 hours on my GC. If I had to downsize to only one, I would miss the power steering and back hoe of the GC. My main job for my heavy tractors now is snow removal and the 2wd with chains 1655 has the 4wd GC beat hands down.

Years ago when I was younger, I would have loved to have the GC with it's hoe instead of moving extra dirt to get the job done with the loader bucket. Having 4wd is just an excuse to not install chains or ballast the tractor properly.

You have a good platform for a loader as is. Set it up correctly and it will do amazing things for you. Mess with it trying to install 4wd and you will spend a lot of time and money, and be disappointed with the outcome, and you won't get any work done on your property during the process.

Build the loader, load the rear tires with Rim Guard, install wheel weights and 2-link tire chains, add counterweight to the 3PH, and it will get the job done.

BTW, a bigger engine will accelerate the tractor faster. You won't really notice any other benefits, but you may notice the higher fuel consumption. That's what I found when I repowered my 1655 to 20 hp.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Wow thanks tudor! very good information in that text! i forgot that the 1450 was shaft driven instead of belt driven like its bigger brother. i was planning on building a mini hoe for it aswell as the loader so it should counterbalance beautifully. my thought was that a bigger engine wouldn't bog down as much when using the loader while driving. i saw a 1655 with a 24hp engine on youtube. the guy said that the original engine didn't cut it for him. ive always been told that bigger is better but not sure if thats the truth. when scraping top soil and leveling a property. traction is very important thats why i wanted to go 4 wheel drive. maybe going the hole 9 yards isn't the best idea. you have given me very good advice thanks alot!

The original single cylinder kohler has been swapped with an 18 hp briggs opposed twin. The engine swap is pretty much non negociable lol. i wanted to go diesel but i can't find anything. so then i searched for old onan's but yet again there was nothing available. Thats when i saw the honda gx linup. The red cover of the honda gx would fit beautifully with the color scheme of the tractor. The igx800 is 28hp and the gx690 is 23-25hp if im correct. very efficient engine for a gasser.
 
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