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mikey
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8 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
New member, just purchased 3016 Ingersol with some issues. Previous owner replaced coil and carburetor with new stock but still no sparks or fuel, plugs are dry. Found center wire on rectifier metal connection broken off . Would this affect the no spark issue? Coil has 12v on and when cranked. Fuel moves slowly thru fuel filter but doesn't appear to make it to carburetor. Ordered new rectifier and will try again for spark. Any ideas or links to threads for help appreciated. Will post photos .
 

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Registered
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97 Posts
A 3016 should have an Onan Performer - P216 in it. the Owners and parts manuals are available here: https://casecoltingersoll.com/forumdisplay.php/7-Technical-Library

That engine uses a Battery Ignition type system:
Brian Millers site has a TON of information on small engine ignition systems. Ignition Solutions for Older Small Engines and Garden Pulling Tractors

You should be able to make a spark with only a charged battery, a working coil and a spark plug. Each time the points close and open you should see a spark at the plugs. Engine service manual is availabe online here: https://manuals.casecoltingersoll.com/ServiceManuals/Onan Service Manual 965-0762_watermarked.pdf should have troubleshooting info and wiring diagrams.

Originally that engine had a pulse type fuel pump, which age, get gummed up, etc. That is also covered in the service manual..
 

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1,610 Posts
New member, just purchased 3016 Ingersol with some issues. Previous owner replaced coil and carburetor with new stock but still no sparks or fuel, plugs are dry. Found center wire on rectifier metal connection broken off . Would this affect the no spark issue?
The rectifier has no connection to the ignition system
Coil has 12v on and when cranked.
Does the voltage change as it cranks? If not I'd suspect the controller under the flywheel.Fuel moves slowly thru fuel filter but doesn't appear to make it to carburetor. Ordered new rectifier and will try again for spark. Any ideas or links to threads for help appreciated. Will post photos .
See notes above and earlier recommendation for on line manuals for troubleshooting the ignition trigger and trigger ring.
 

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Hemlock Case Guy
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312 Posts
A 3016 should have an Onan Performer - P216 in it. the Owners and parts manuals are available here: https://casecoltingersoll.com/forumdisplay.php/7-Technical-Library

That engine uses a Battery Ignition type system:
Brian Millers site has a TON of information on small engine ignition systems. Ignition Solutions for Older Small Engines and Garden Pulling Tractors

You should be able to make a spark with only a charged battery, a working coil and a spark plug. Each time the points close and open you should see a spark at the plugs. Engine service manual is availabe online here: https://manuals.casecoltingersoll.com/ServiceManuals/Onan Service Manual 965-0762_watermarked.pdf should have troubleshooting info and wiring diagrams.

Originally that engine had a pulse type fuel pump, which age, get gummed up, etc. That is also covered in the service manual.
No points. It has a spark control module under the flywheel. They do often cause issues. Especially when the condenser is not correctly connected to the + post of the coil. The condenser protects the spark module rather than the points and needs to be on the + terminal on the coil or it will be damaged.

There are detailed tests for the module. Google will show many people doing these tests and their version of the test. Try to stick with the actual mechanics, not the owners who are first-timers. But, I have not had any luck using them. You are dealing with readings that are fractions of a volt. I have had modules less than .3 volts from the target that does not function and it is hard to claim your meter is that precise. It really stinks when you become a parts changer and the part is $150 for the module, condenser, and magnet. I would buy all 3 parts as it is not easy to back and change them later, except for the condenser which you should change anyway.

But the first part should always be the ignition switch purchased from a dealer with few exceptions.

When you buy older tractors for their durability you must either be a mechanic or know a mechanic. But, Google can teach you a lot. It is how I learned.
 

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mikey
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8 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Update on 3016 ingersol looks like I will be pulling the engine to replace the ignition module. After reviewing the wiring diagram and testing I found the previous owner had wired the module wires on the positive terminal of the coil and the condenser wire on the negative side destroying the module. We all make mistakes and that's why service manuals were written. Any links or info on engine removal and tips for removing the flywheel would be appreciated. Your feedback is very helpful. Our last tractor is the Case 448 that I gave to my sister in 1990 with the tiller to use in her garden. She will let me borrow it if I ask nice.
 

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mikey
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8 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Progress made! Engine is off the tractor. Took about 2 hours . Difficult part was the coupling bolts to the pump. Used two box end wrench's, one to hold a bolt while loosening the other. Allen set screws loosened but would not move. Will remove shrouding next and then the puller. If anyone has pulled one of these flywheels please let me know any specifics. I have removed many on small engines but never on the Onan. Also looking for recommendation on supplier for new ignition kit. Thanks again!
 

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mikey
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8 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Update. Before I ordered the ignition system kit I decided to do a compression test. Right hand cylinder had no compression. Pulled head and found piston not moving! Suspected broken connecting rod, left side ok. Previous owner said it ran fine but lost spark. With new carb, plugs, oil change and coil I never thought engine would be junk. Anyways, paid $500.00 for it and I think my local dealer will take it for the same price, fix it and sell it. Going back to my troybilt push mower. Hope some of this information will help with your purchases and lessons learned.
 

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468 Posts
Or sense the engine is out, pop the "pan" and see how bad the crank and cylinder are, "MAYBE" it's an easy fix.
 

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Hemlock Case Guy
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312 Posts
Update. Before I ordered the ignition system kit I decided to do a compression test. Right hand cylinder had no compression. Pulled head and found piston not moving! Suspected broken connecting rod, left side ok. Previous owner said it ran fine but lost spark. With new carb, plugs, oil change and coil I never thought engine would be junk. Anyways, paid $500.00 for it and I think my local dealer will take it for the same price, fix it and sell it. Going back to my troybilt push mower. Hope some of this information will help with your purchases and lessons learned.
Many twins will run on one cylinder. You can easily verify that both cylinders are working from the heat coming off the exhaust on each side. It is usually the first thing you check. Losing spark on an Onan, which always sparks both sides at the same time, is pretty much always a broken rod or piston.

Your mower is still worth $200. When a "deal" seems to good to pass on often it turns out the owner is trying to dump it. The lower the price the less you scrutinize the purchase.

The engine, most the time, can be overhauled with new rings and a used rod. If the block is in decent shape you can have a nearly new engine again. A machine shop can measure the amount of wear. I just overhauled an engine with a broken rod that had only .001 of cylinder wear. It was ridged honed to a perfect bore and with new rings, it will be like a new engine again.

Rods go bad for several oil or heat-related issues. The main bearings are usually perfectly fine. The cam bearings are hit and miss, but not expensive.
 

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mikey
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8 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Another Onan opportunity. As DL North suggested I decided not to give up and for curiosity purposes I pulled the base and found a busted connecting rod, some looks like scoring on the crankshaft but see no other internal damage. The cylinder in question has surface rust but may be able to be honed. I found a shop about an hour or so away that is offering repair service specializing in Onan. Used engines bench tested start at $400.00 and up but he may be able to repair mine cheaper or trade it for credit towards a purchase. If anyone has an idea of costs for this repair I would be interested.
 

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A new rod, just be careful to get the correct one, there are at least 2, and maybe piston/rings, a quick run through the bore with a berry brush, and a bit of crocus cloth on the crank and your good to go. :)
 

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mikey
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8 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Just researching this now . Can I tell what rod type I need by looking at the other one? The damaged on was all in pieces and the piston has large pieces missing from the sides. The shop wants $400 to do the repairs and yes, It would be a complete running engine again but $500.00 for the 3016 then $400.00 more for the engine seems like that is more than the machine might be worth.
 

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Hemlock Case Guy
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312 Posts
Just researching this now . Can I tell what rod type I need by looking at the other one? The damaged on was all in pieces and the piston has large pieces missing from the sides. The shop wants $400 to do the repairs and yes, It would be a complete running engine again but $500.00 for the 3016 then $400.00 more for the engine seems like that is more than the machine might be worth.

That is not that bad. You will at least know where you are at with the engine. The only other choice is trying to trick or lie to someone hoping they buy a $250 tractor for $500 and then you have nothing.
 

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mikey
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8 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
The engine repair road trip didn't work out very well. The $400.00 repair was changed to $600.00 with no idea when it would be finished. A friend offered a Kohler 18hp magnum to try to adapt to this tractor and thought I would ask if anyone has attempted this?
 

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Hemlock Case Guy
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312 Posts
That is still a good price as long as the repair is done right. There is not an engine on the planet can be the age of either engine and it not need work. You did not buy a new tractor.

You and others, I applaud you in buying real tractors. But, know that you either have to be the mechanic or pay the mechanic as part of the package of an older tractor. You will not fix them one time and it will magically be new. It was new in the 70, 80, or 90's.

Facebook has an astonishing number of people who know nothing about engines and mechanical things that have bought an old tractor. They somehow think they bought new old. The quality build does not mean that it will not need work. Being in good mechanical shape is only temporary.
 
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