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Discussion Starter #1
Have a 3520 with a 300X loader and don't think it is lifting as it should. The book says that it can lift around 1,340lbs. Is there a way to test to see if the hydralic pump is putting out the pressure it is supposed to?
I am having trouble breaking out of a pile of gravel or dirt. It just sits there until I start backing out of the pile and then it will begin lifting. It just seems a little weak.

Has anyone used a CX loader and an X loader on these tractors and if so, could you tell a difference?
Thanks
 

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Just a quick hyd lesson if I may.
The hyd pump does not produce pressure. It produces flow.
Pressure is created in the valve body via a pressure relief valve. Pressure is restriction to flow.
When talking about your loader, Pressure = power and Flow = speed.
So.... to test for flow (pump) a cycle time test would be in order. Example would be... how long does it take the main lift arms to fully extend. Of course the shop method is to install a flow meter and read the results. But the cycle time test remains a good down and dirty field method of troubleshooting.
To test for pressure, a pressure gauge would need to be used to check and set system relief pressure.
By the looks of the date you received your machine, you should still be under warranty, I would take it to the dealer and operate it to show them exactly what it's doing. Now is the time to get it in there before the big spring rush!
Let us know how it panned out.
 

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I've used several loaders with the same type of results. When that loader is jammed into anything, be it gravel to fill sand, it really gets stuck in there. I've had some instances where it will pick up the back of the tractor by picking up the loader, and other instances where the loader just won't move and can't even curl the bucket. Just last Sunday was the last time this was happening. I also noticed that it seemed a little "stronger" as the fluid got good an warm, thus flowing through the valve, lines, and cylinders easier.
 

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The hyd pump does not produce pressure. It produces flow.

Well in principle this is correct, but as it turns out, the pump is "responsible" for pressure as well. And it is "PRESSURE", not "FLOW" that is responsible for "lifting capacity".

if the pump suffers from excessive blow-by (or if you pressure relief valve is malfunctioning), it will produce "all the flow you want" at zero pressure (no load), because at zero pressure blow-by is minimal. Doing a "cycle time" test tells you almost nothing about the pump's ability to build pressure and lift weight.

If you want to do a test, use this:

Gravel, loose, dry = 95 lbs / cu. ft.
Gravel, w/sand, natural = 120 lbs / cu. ft.
Gravel, dry 1/4 to 2 inch = 105 lbs / cu. ft.
Gravel, wet 1/4 to 2 inch = 125 lbs / cu. ft.

Measure the volume of a plastic bucket or pail, using whatever means you want, then use the bucket to load the FEL with the requisite amount of gravel, to set the weight. Start with 1000 lbs, and keep increasing it, one bucket at a time, until you get to the point you can't lift the FEL any more.
 

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The hyd pump does not produce pressure. It produces flow.

Well in principle this is correct, but as it turns out, the pump is "responsible" for pressure as well. And it is "PRESSURE", not "FLOW" that is responsible for "lifting capacity". Pressure is not "made" by any valve. It is "made", or built-up by the pump.

If the pump, or any part of the "high pressure side" of the hyd. circuit suffers from excessive blow-by or leakage (or if the pressure relief valve is malfunctioning - ie: opening at a lower pressure then expected), you will get "all the flow you want" at zero pressure (no load), because at zero pressure blow-by is minimized. Doing a "cycle time" test at "no load" tells you almost nothing about the pump's ability to build pressure and lift weight.

Of course, if the pump produces no flow at all (because it's totally busted), it will naturally be incapable of building pressure as well... but that would be pretty obvious. No cycle-time test required.

If you want to test lifting capacity, here is a simple method (assuming you have a pile of gravel that you mentioned in your original post):

Gravel, loose, dry = 95 lbs / cu. ft.
Gravel, w/sand, natural = 120 lbs / cu. ft.
Gravel, dry 1/4 to 2 inch = 105 lbs / cu. ft.
Gravel, wet 1/4 to 2 inch = 125 lbs / cu. ft.

Measure the volume of a plastic bucket or pail, using whatever means you want, then use the bucket to load the FEL with the requisite amount of gravel, to set the weight. Start with 1000 lbs for example, and keep increasing it, one bucket at a time, until you get to the point you can't lift the FEL any more.

cheers fellas
 

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Hi

Wouldn't a 300x lift a heaping full bucket of gravel without trouble. You may run out of space in the bucket before you run out of lift capacity. You may need to use something denser like metal to get to the limit.


Regards
Brian
 

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Discussion Starter #8
How much gravel will a 61 inch bucket carry in cubic yards? I have a set of portable truck scales that I can use to measure the weight of the aggragate.
All I can tell you is that I will not lift the rear tires off the ground with no ballast. You can lift something high, and then back out from under it, and it will bring the rear wheels off the ground, but it won't do it on its own.
 

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Just a quick hyd lesson if I may.
The hyd pump does not produce pressure. It produces flow.
Pressure is created in the valve body via a pressure relief valve. Pressure is restriction to flow.
When talking about your loader, Pressure = power and Flow = speed.
So.... to test for flow (pump) a cycle time test would be in order. Example would be... how long does it take the main lift arms to fully extend. Of course the shop method is to install a flow meter and read the results. But the cycle time test remains a good down and dirty field method of troubleshooting.
To test for pressure, a pressure gauge would need to be used to check and set system relief pressure.
By the looks of the date you received your machine, you should still be under warranty, I would take it to the dealer and operate it to show them exactly what it's doing. Now is the time to get it in there before the big spring rush!
Let us know how it panned out.
This has been an argument in the pump world for years... Pressure is created by restriction of any kind... But we would not have pressure if not for the pump trying to put more fluid where it cant go...
 

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Is your 3520 a ehydro with that load match feature? If so maybe its limiting how much flow its sending to teh loader to stop the possibility of the tractor stalling. This is something i am trying to get used to with my 4520.. its a strange feature to have when your used to a old tractor....
 

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How much gravel will a 61 inch bucket carry in cubic yards?

If you have scales, then just load up the bucket until the tractor can "barely" lift it an inch or 2 off the ground.... then drive onto your scales and weigh the tractor.

Then dump the bucket and weigh the tractor again.

The difference in the 2 weights is your load you tried to lift in the bucket.
 

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All I know is that I've NEVER wanted for a 300CX loader, the 300X will take a big enough bite out of the ground that unless you have some serious ballast, you will be in trouble.

When I do loader work by Backhoe is on, and I've never stopped the machine it's never moaned or groaned, my brand new Cub 6284D wouldn't even lift half what the deere does.
 

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Hi

It sounds like something is not right. The breakout force is over 2000lbs on that loader so it shouldn't be lazy loading gravel.

Brian
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The load match is designed to not let the engine stall when you are lugging it to hard. For instance, if I shut it off and try to push a stump, it will spin and then power down and die, if i have my foot all the way down on the hydro. With it on, it will back off the hydro automatically, so the engine stays reved up. Neat feature, but I don't think the loader is really affected by that.

All I know is that it doesn't lift the rear wheels off the ground unless you change something to the bucket and back out from under it.

Does anyone know if there are adjustments that can be made to the flow, and or pressure on these things?

Thanks for the responses.
 

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I have a 07 3520 w/ 300x loader and experienced the same thing. Talked to my dealer about it and he mentioned something about an improper setting at the factory. They checked it and made some adjustments. Now it will lift a full bucket of black dirt, gravel, everything I've tried, without even a drop in RPM.

I still wish I would have bought the 300CX.
 

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Change the lift cylinders, that's the only difference between a 300x and a 300cx, other than the sticker of course.
 

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I would have the dealer check the relief valve pressure setting. This is probably what claybuster was referring to. You can do it yourself if you have pressure gauge and hook it up to one of the FEL pressure ports, then open that port with the joystick at full RPM and get a reading. Should match or be close to what your FEL owners manual says is the max pressure. If it's less, a few shims (i.e., thin washers) installed in the relief valve will increase the pressure. I adjusted the pressure on my old JDX485 from 1,000 lbs to 1,200 lbs at max RPM to get more lift out of the FEL by installing a few .2mm shims. But, if you're under warranty, I'd have the dealer check it out first.

Or, you're trying to move too much weight with the auto match feature on and it's limiting the hydraulic pump output to keep the engine from stalling, like someone else pointed out.
 

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The arms are different, as well as the front linkage. There are also more options for different buckets and skid steer type attachments for the 300CX.
Yes the CX does have the level lift linkage in the front, but what other attachments are available for the CX that can't be mounted on the 300x? they both have quick detach bucket setups.
 
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