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2001 JD 445 troubles

4966 Views 12 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  PA318Guy, 
C
A couple of days ago, while mowing ,running at full rpm, my 445 lost power for 1 to 1 1/2 seconds, backfired and continued running for 5 to 10 seconds then quit completely. Tried several times under numerous conditions to restart and it would not. Engine turns over but no ignition.

Checked spark and though bright daylight, saw none. Later, I rechecked the spark at the plug, removed it from the cylinder head and attached a clip from body threads direct to battery ground, cranked for a couple of seconds and NO SPARK. This time, cloudy overhead so could see good. Sprayed small amount of gas into cylinder to see if fuel problem, replaced plugs, and did not get any ignition. Cannot hear fuel pump run at all when switch is first turned on so I removed the gas line going to the fuel injection body and turned on the key switch to see if gas were being pumped, NO GAS comes out of the fuel line.

Started electrical trouble shooting by checking all fuses, F5 power, F4 lights and F3 fuelpump fuse and all are OK. Checked voltage at connector going into fuel pump and coming out of fuel pump relay and all seems OK.

What are the odds the fuel pump will go bad and the spark plug firing system will go bad at the same time? Am I overlooking something?

Any ideas??

Thanks for all help,
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D-Dogg
Being fuel injected, you may not see the fuel pump pumping until the engine is cranking and you get oil pressure.

Back to spark, have you tested the coil? Also if you have someone switch the key to off while you observe the plug do you get a single spark? That unfortunately might point to the ignition module.
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C
D-Dogg said:
...Back to spark, have you tested the coil...
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Thanks for the response D-Dogg, no I have not tested the coil. Any suggestions on how to do that?

...Being fuel injected, you may not see the fuel pump pumping until the engine is cranking and you get oil pressure...
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Also, I am not up to speed on how these things interact. Can you educate me on it?

I have the manual on it and will look in there also.

Jerry
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D
It sounds exactly like the switch is not on. I, like D-Dogg, think the ignition went bad. If it did, the starter might still turn the engine over, but since there is no power to the engine it will not start, nor will the fuel pump work.

I think this is a fairly common problem with John Deere garden tractors. I know it happened to me. I'm betting on the ignition module.
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dirtyratssurfrats said:
...I'm betting on the ignition module...
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OK, when you say ignition module you are referring to the unit that generates the spark, not the ignition switch?

Jerry
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Upper5Percent
Does the EFI light come on when you turn the key?
If not, With no fuel pump operation, nor spark, it sounds like your EFI module is not working. There is a fuse specifically for the EFI module, and it's not one of the two on the circuit board (where the green light is). By the way, the green means "all go" for start, so your safety systems are OK. I don't remember the exact location of the EFI fuse, but it's in a separate rubber holder that branches off the harness. It may have a rubber cap on it. It is in the circuit board area under the dash. Dig around behind there and look for it. It's a 15 amp I think.
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Nouveau Redneck
Being fuel injected, you may not see the fuel pump pumping until the engine is cranking and you get oil pressure.
Click to expand...
I'm not familiar with that model, but fuel injection requires fuel pressure to deliver fuel to the injectors for the engine to start. If there is a fuse for the fuel pump, then it's an electric fuel pump, and it should start pumping as soon as the key is turned to the "on" position, even before it gets to the "start" position. Fuel injection systems with an electric fuel pump usually have a return line to feed the excess fuel back to the tank. You could try pulling the return line to see if you have fuel pressure.
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C
PaulChristenson said:
...Does the EFI light come on when you turn the key...
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No, only two lights come on, the one on the left and the one on the right.

PaulChristenson said:
...If not, With no fuel pump operation, nor spark, it sounds like your EFI module is not working. There is a fuse specifically for the EFI module, and it's not one of the two on the circuit board (where the green light is)...
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There are two fuses on the circuit board and one fuse in a harness between the board and the fuel pump relay, the manual defines it as the fuel pump fuse. All three fuses are working, checked with ohm meter.

PaulChristenson said:
...By the way, the green means "all go" for start...
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This green light (LED) does stay on.

PaulChristenson said:
...I don't remember the exact location of the EFI fuse, but it's in a separate rubber holder that branches off the harness...

...It is in the circuit board area under the dash. Dig around behind there and look for it...
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Isnt this the fuel pmp fuse that I checked? 10 Amp?

Again, thanks for all your help!
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Nouveau ******* said:
...fuel injection requires fuel pressure to deliver fuel to the injectors for the engine to start. If there is a fuse for the fuel pump, then it's an electric fuel pump, and it should start pumping as soon as the key is turned to the "on" position...
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I have turned the key switch on several times and listened for the fuel pump, which I understand will come on for a couple of seconds because pressure will build up in that short a time but there is no pumping noise coming from the tank, no noise period.

Nouveau ******* said:
...with an electric fuel pump usually have a return line to feed the excess fuel back to the tank. You could try pulling the return line to see if you have fuel pressure...
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I have pulled the gas line coming from the back of the mower going into the fuel injection body, just before it branches, one part going into the injector body higher than the other which appears to go into the injector bady also, and turned the key switch on and see no flow whatsoever. I do not see a return to the gas tank unless I am pulling the return line and not the supply line to the injector body.

Unless there is some type of safety mechanism which will not allow the pump to go on for some safety reasons, seems the pump is not working. My delima is that there is definitely no spark either and I find it hard to believe both will go out at the same time, course, stranger things have happened


Jerry
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C
PaulChristenson said:
...Does the EFI light come on when you turn the key...
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Paul, I may have misunderstood this question. I assumed you meant one of the yellow lights that come on the dashboard, if the green LED on the circuit board is the EFI light, then it does come on and stays on.

I am new at this, please bear with me.

Jerry
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Chandler Mountain Man said:
OK, when you say ignition module you are referring to the unit that generates the spark, not the ignition switch?

Jerry
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On my 1993 445, the ignition(key switch) and ignition module are connected (wires soldered into the circuit board. I had recent no start issue. In my case I did not have 12volts at the fuel pump wiring connector on top of the fuel tank. I tried a jumper wire to put 12v straight to the pump and it still was no go. Also check the 3 fuses just behind the radiator : 2 on the ignition module and there will be one on a single wire somewhere above nearby. The lone fuse is the fuel pump fuse. Also remove your air filter and give it some starting fluid into the throttle body. If it runs on starting fluid then you know the issue is fuel. There is also a fuel filter screen inside the fuel tank on the fuel pump. In my case, the screen had to be replaced. ..
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Chandler Mountain Man said:
Paul, I may have misunderstood this question. I assumed you meant one of the yellow lights that come on the dashboard, if the green LED on the circuit board is the EFI light, then it does come on and stays on.

I am new at this, please bear with me.

Jerry
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the fuel injection light is yellow and in middle of dash. It should come on when key is turned on and go off after maybe 2 seconds. The Green LED on the circuit board is sort of an "All systems go/ready light. The red LED beside it is for the PTO.
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PA318Guy
@MowerGuy64, the thread you are posting in was from 2009. I suspect they've solved the problem by now.
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