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Jack of All Trades
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Is there a way to pull a sample out of a tank and test it to determine the ratio of oil used in the mix? This would be for diagnostic purposes to determine if the customer is using the right ratio and to help in failure analysis.
 

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I know of no way to do that type of testing with out sending it to a lab...but I have found if the plug is oil fouled the ratio is to rich and if the piston or cylinder wall are galed then the ratio is to lean on the oil mixture.
 

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the particular one I am on now is an Echo srm-280t . The plug was built up almost to the point of shorting the electrode with gray hard carbon build up. Put in new plug, pulled the spark arrestor off the muffler and fired right up, but with the same condition customer complained about. After about 30 seconds of running full throttle, a small piece of carbon blew out and the unit started running great. Let it cool down, now it wont restart. Pulled plug and it was a little wet, with a gray color to the moisture. Only one thing I know of causes that, FINE aluminum powder :14_6_5: is the next step...:Stop:
 

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Greetings Midniteryder !
I don't beleive there is a test to check mix ratios of gasoline, most oil analysis labs will not take a gas oil mix for testing.
The deposits you are referring to are formed by impurities in petroleum based 2 cycle oil.
All the oil eventually burns with the gas, when these impurities are burned they create varnish deposits at lower temps, and hard carbon at higher temps, the hard carbons typically form around the hottest area's of the engine like the piston rings, spark plugs, exhast ports, and exhaust screens.
Another huge problem small engines have is fuel quality.
Oxgenated fuel (Think Ethanol Blend ) is death on small engines, and especially 2 cycle engines. When you purchase ethanol/gas from the pump you have no idea how much moisture the ethanol has already absorbed. Ethanol has a stronger bond to water/moisture than it has to the gasoline, when the ethanol is fully saturated with water it breaks the bond with the gasoline and joins with the water, when this happens the water ethanol mixture sinks to the bottom of the tank and forms gums and varnish that plug fuel flow passages, which causes a lean burn in the combustion chamber that greatly increases combustion chamber temperatures. This lean burn condition creates extreme temperatures in the combustion chamber beyond what any lubricant can protect. The result is stuck rings and/or scored or melted pistons.
Leaking or cracked crankshaft seals, and leaks on the engine side of the carburetor also may create a lean burn situation on 2 cycle engines resulting in the same type of failures listed above.
One of my customers is the Volunteer Fire Department in West Union, Iowa. They were having startup and performance issues with their 2 cycle equipment, not good when live's are on the line.
About 4 years ago I recommended Amsoil Sabre 100:1 mixed with either Aviation gasoline or racing gasoline, these 2 fuels contain no ethanol and have an octane rating of 95 to 110 depending on which one you purchase, these fuels also stay fresh much much longer than pump gas.
The results have been amazing, startup and performance issues have disappeared altogether, they are very pleased with the results.
Midniteryder, I would like to offer you a free sample of the Amsoil Sabre 100:1 to try, if you are interested PM me with you shipping address.
For anyone wishing to research further, here are links to Amsoil Sabre and Amsoil Quickshot.
http://www.amsoil.com/redirect.cgi?zo=531421&page=storefront/atp

http://www.amsoil.com/redirect.cgi?zo=531421&page=storefront/aqs

Have a great day !
Don
 

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Another huge problem small engines have is fuel quality.
Oxgenated fuel (Think Ethanol Blend ) is death on small engines, and especially 2 cycle engines. When you purchase ethanol/gas from the pump you have no idea how much moisture the ethanol has already absorbed. Ethanol has a stronger bond to water/moisture than it has to the gasoline, when the ethanol is fully saturated with water it breaks the bond with the gasoline and joins with the water, when this happens the water ethanol mixture sinks to the bottom of the tank and forms gums and varnish that plug fuel flow passages, which causes a lean burn in the combustion chamber that greatly increases combustion chamber temperatures. This lean burn condition creates extreme temperatures in the combustion chamber beyond what any lubricant can protect. The result is stuck rings and/or scored or melted pistons.

I couldn't agree more....^

With the Sabre 100:1 can I mix it at the level the manufacturer recommends? Or is the 100:1 totally safe with all equipment and disregard the recommended ratios.
 

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Greetings Indy452 !
Amsoil Sabre Professional 100:1 is designed to replace all other recommended ratios, this allows you to get down to 1 can of mix for all your 2 cycle premix applications, except for premix outboards. Amsoil has a Sabre outboard 100:1 for premix outboards that replaces all other outboard ratios, it has a slightly different formulation due to outboard engines cooler operating temperatures, as they pull in lake water for cooling.
Amsoil Sabre 100:1 premix is engineered to be mixed at 100:1, it has been tested as high as 250:1 and still meets all the wear requirements, you have a two and a half to one safety factor at 100:1. Use it in confidence, it has been perfoming flawlessly for over 30 years !
Indy452 PM me if you would like to try a free sample.
Thank you !
Have a great day !
Don
 

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I believe a simple test would tell you how much oil is in the fuel...

Locate a way to measure fairly accurately.....a graduated cylinder would be best....

1) Agitate the fuel/oil mix in the machine to ensure a homogeneous mix.

2) Extract a sample of the fuel mix and accurately measure 100 ml and put into a container such as a wide mouth jar...

3) Allow the gasoline to evaporate. (this, of course, will not be a fast process...may help to sit the sample in the sun if possible?

4) Measure how much oil is left behind (it won't evaporate)

This is about the only way you can measure this....that is, of course, if you don't have access to a chemical lab like I do... :)

Even the above method may be tough due to the small amount of oil that will be encountered.....

Going by weight with a lab balance would be best.....the balance I have will measure the weight of ink in a signature! I would evaporate a sample of gasoline without 2 stroke oil in order to determine how much residue is left simply due to the gasoline....then subtract that amount from the 2 stroke residue.....
 

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Greetings Indy452 !
Amsoil Sabre Professional 100:1 is designed to replace all other recommended ratios, this allows you to get down to 1 can of mix for all your 2 cycle premix applications, except for premix outboards. Amsoil has a Sabre outboard 100:1 for premix outboards that replaces all other outboard ratios, it has a slightly different formulation due to outboard engines cooler operating temperatures, as they pull in lake water for cooling.
Amsoil Sabre 100:1 premix is engineered to be mixed at 100:1, it has been tested as high as 250:1 and still meets all the wear requirements, you have a two and a half to one safety factor at 100:1. Use it in confidence, it has been perfoming flawlessly for over 30 years !
Indy452 PM me if you would like to try a free sample.
Thank you !
Have a great day !
Don
Thanks, I'm actually using a sample you sent me a year or so ago....I'm currently using it in one of my leaf blowers and a trimmer. So far so good...I really want to try it in one of my old 16:1 engines but the nervous factor always prevents me.......I like the concept, its just that old habits die hard you know...

Is Sabre synthetic or oil based? Paraffin or what?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I believe a simple test would tell you how much oil is in the fuel...

Locate a way to measure fairly accurately.....a graduated cylinder would be best....

1) Agitate the fuel/oil mix in the machine to ensure a homogeneous mix.

2) Extract a sample of the fuel mix and accurately measure 100 ml and put into a container such as a wide mouth jar...

3) Allow the gasoline to evaporate. (this, of course, will not be a fast process...may help to sit the sample in the sun if possible?

4) Measure how much oil is left behind (it won't evaporate)

This is about the only way you can measure this....that is, of course, if you don't have access to a chemical lab like I do... :)

Even the above method may be tough due to the small amount of oil that will be encountered.....

Going by weight with a lab balance would be best.....the balance I have will measure the weight of ink in a signature! I would evaporate a sample of gasoline without 2 stroke oil in order to determine how much residue is left simply due to the gasoline....then subtract that amount from the 2 stroke residue.....
Ok, you gave me an idea or two. Accuracy is the must here. Weigh a given amount of gas. Weigh the same given amount of the mix in their tank. Have the wife do the math. (She the math brains of the operation here) That should give us the ratio in the tank right? I realize that given the small amount of mix in the tank it would not be 100% accurate but would give a general idea. i talked to the operations manager of the company whose equipment I have and he admitted the field guys are bad about mixing on the fly or in the tank until it looks "about right". We are going to have a sit down with their upper management and try to implement a program that can help prevent these issues.

It is amazing what a lab can do though. Years ago I had a gig pulling underground gas tanks. The procedure was to dig a sample with the backhoe under where the tank sat. Wearing rubber gloves, take the dirt sample off the backhoe tooth so it is a solid sample and not a composite one of mixed soil. As an example, the lab came out and had me take a sample without wearing gloves, and when the results came back they broke it down so far they told me exactly what brand of soap I had washed my hands with last. They did this to show how accurate their results were, as well as to show how important it was to follow proper procedure. A legitimately clean site could show up in a lab as a highly contaminated site if the proper procedure wasn't followed.
 

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Hi there donsoil, Amsoil 100:1 looks interesting - as I have the following:
- old Pioneer chainsaw @ 16-1
- LawnBoy at 32-1
- Stihl trimmer @ 40-1
One premix, for all 3 pieces of equipment / that's a great feature & Amsoil has a very solid reputation.

off topic:

Also, visiting the Amsoil website - I don't seem to know what syn. compressor oil is correct, for my unit.
(my old heavy duty compressor, is pictured below - 6 hp / 120 gal tank / 2 stage / V twin pump )
https://www.amsoil.com/a/Synthetic-Compressor-Oil-Lubricants

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Beaumont { :>)) www.petperfectexpress.com
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http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=135888 http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=136600&page=3
1992 JD 318 original paint w/484 hr. on P218g Onan & #49 snow blower / 1998 JD GT262 w/brand new Kawasaki OHV & 48" rebuilt deck
http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=135838
 

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I believe a simple test would tell you how much oil is in the fuel...

Locate a way to measure fairly accurately.....a graduated cylinder would be best....

1) Agitate the fuel/oil mix in the machine to ensure a homogeneous mix.

2) Extract a sample of the fuel mix and accurately measure 100 ml and put into a container such as a wide mouth jar...

3) Allow the gasoline to evaporate. (this, of course, will not be a fast process...may help to sit the sample in the sun if possible?

4) Measure how much oil is left behind (it won't evaporate)


This is about the only way you can measure this....that is, of course, if you don't have access to a chemical lab like I do... :)

Even the above method may be tough due to the small amount of oil that will be encountered.....

Going by weight with a lab balance would be best.....the balance I have will measure the weight of ink in a signature! I would evaporate a sample of gasoline without 2 stroke oil in order to determine how much residue is left simply due to the gasoline....then subtract that amount from the 2 stroke residue.....
Something to consider with this test, petroleum based 2 cycle oil does not have uniform sized molecules in it, there are many impurities in petroleum based oil, some of these impurities are molecules that are lighter than the oil molecule, and will evaporate with the gasoline. the ammount of these impurities will vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, depending on the source of the crude oil used to make the oil, not all sources of crude oil have the same properties.
Have a great day !
Don
 

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Going by weight with a lab balance would be best.....the balance I have will measure the weight of ink in a signature!
Specific gravity test? I have done it in the field to determine alcohol percentages before. I did not have to use a lab balance. i was determining if the alcohol was 70% or not. I think the specific gravity between 10:1 and a 20:1 mix would be easily determined but i am not a lab guy.
 

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Hi there donsoil, Amsoil 100:1 looks interesting - as I have the following:
- old Pioneer chainsaw @ 16-1
- LawnBoy at 32-1
- Stihl trimmer @ 40-1
One premix, for all 3 pieces of equipment / that's a great feature & Amsoil has a very solid reputation.

off topic:

Also, visiting the Amsoil website - I don't seem to know what syn. compressor oil is correct, for my unit.
(my old heavy duty compressor, is pictured below - 6 hp / 120 gal tank / 2 stage / V twin pump )
https://www.amsoil.com/a/Synthetic-Compressor-Oil-Lubricants

Greetings Beaumont !
Amsoil Sabre Professional 100:1 will work super in the equipment listed above, couple it with aviation gasoline, or racing gasoline and you will have a superior combination that will maximize performance, greatly extend engine life, and will keep fresh for months longer.
I would use Amsoil PCK SAE 40 Synthetic compressor oil in your air compressor. If you do, buy enough for 2 oil changes, reason being your compressor has been running petroleum base oil and has deposits caused by oxidation, these deposits will be in the form of sludge, varnish, and hard carbon deposits. When you switch to Amsoil Synthetic compressor oil these deposits will be disolved, if you dont change out the initial fill of Amsoil after 20 to 40 hours of run time, you run the risk of bearing damage due to the leftover nasties contaminating the oil, these nasties are abrasive and if left in for an extended time will do damage. Once you change out the initial fill of Amsoil, you may then run Amsoil Synthetic Compressor oil for up to 8,000 hours when using oil analysis.
Beaumont, PM me if you would like to try Amsoil 100:1 , or if you would like to set up a wholesale account.
Thank you !
Have a great day !
:thThumbsU
 
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