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Discussion Starter #1
Well, it`s time to get the MTD,"Ol`Blue", going again.It`s been down and out,and as neglected, as neglected can get.




http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=81463 post #9 has a bit of background on it.After seeing Blacksmiths,nice 990 on the web,I thought that was the model I had too. But after doing some Research I think what I have is a 1973 Model 960.Unfortunately I can not find any numbers on this tractor,and the Hood Decals are unreadable except for a very Faint 16HP up near the Headlights.The Decal seemed to have had a Foil type trim edge on it also.I`ll get some better pics tommorow and Maybe the Folks who`ve done a fair bit of reasearch on these tractors can pinpoint the Model a little better, than what I`ve been able to come up with.I`m saying it`s a 1973 mainly due to the Engines ID markings.I`m confident that the Engine is original, as equipped from New. It`s a Briggs 16 HP Single cylinder, Cast Iron Engine. Model # 326431, Type # 0136-01, Code # 7211281 . According to the Code it was Built 1972 (72), 11`th month (11), 28`th day (28), ASSEMBLY LINE AND MANUFACTURING PLANT #1 (1). So seeing how the engine was assembled late 1972 ,I`m taking a Guess that the Tractor is a 1973 model.Does anyone Know where the Model # plate should be on this tractor, or Serial # Stamping on the frame somewhere? I sure would like to know this sort of thing ?

I guess I`ll post a few pics up since I`ve learned everyone likes pictures around here.
 

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hey i am new to the site and i want to post some pics on my new tractor how do i post the pics. every time i upload the picture it says it exceeds the size limit. im lost
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Sorry the Upload thing tells me I can`t repost pics.So some of them you`ll have to go to the above Link to see.

Currently I have the tractor sitting in front of my house.I had to Dig it out of the Ground,because it sat so long.I tugged the engine over Yesterday and I had no Spark,but I`ll fix that tommorrow.I found another Carb, so I`ve installed that, but it`s missing the Fuel inlet, where the Fuel line hooks up.I`ll rig something up Tommorow, for temporary use. I`m still looking for the original Carb,I know it`s around here somewhere.I`m hoping to have a short Video of Ol`Blue, Running Tommorow.Since the Tractor will need to be completely Re-Wired, I`ll probably be Tugging it over with a Rope.I guess after a few times starting it like that,it will give me good incentive to Get the Wiring, and Electric start working again..LOL
 

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ROJ
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your i d tag should be either near the bottom of the plastic dash or on the console under the seat but they are foil tags and a lot of them arent there or are unreadable.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks Rusty..I guess I`m Back to Guessing,at what I`ve actually got then..LOL. Does anyone Know for Certain,Are all "990 Series" Hydrostatic Drives? And what other possible Model could this Machine be, aside from a "960 Series".? It has a 4 speed Manual Transmission. It`s raining here this Morning again,so I`m thinking of going out and Finding a New Generator/Starter drive Belt. Anyone Know what the Belt Specs are for that. Briggs has 2 part numbers, 68898 (Low Position Mount) = 35.75" long, and ,68878 (Hi Position Mount) = 36.75" long.. I didn`t find any info on top width etc. Gates Belts X-Ref. to 68898 = 7360 , & , 68878 = 7370 , but their Dimensions don`t seem to match exactly to the Briggs Description. I don`t have the Original belt anymore, so I can`t just match it.Can`t remember what I did with it.Think I was beginning to have electrical problems when it last ran,and the Original Belt, is probably sitting with the Original Carburator somewhere. I must be getting Ol`Timers Disease,Can`t remember much..Think Next year, I`ll be able to hide my own Easter eggs..LOL :sidelaugh
 

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That one is a little differant, maybe Glenn would know
 

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Discussion Starter #9
.Thank you Glen. 3/8" X "which length" will I need for this Model, do you Think ?

..Jeeper,I sent Old Skool a PM Last night, with a link to Google Picasa.I gave him a couple hints on Shrinking his pics. Down to size.He got back to me and said it was working for him..Told him ,We want his Pics..LOL Haven`t seen any from him yet though..

..Have a Few pics and short Video as Promised Just have to do some editting and upload it to YouTube..Am I allowed to post a link in this thread, to the Video? I don`t want to get on the Wrong side of the Law, around Here...

..Hope everyone is having a good evening,our weather Cleared up a few hours ago, so I was able to Fiddle with, Ol`Blue,for a little while after supper..Back a little later..Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Then,I needed to get Spark back.. I bought a Mega-Fire II Ignition Module, just because I wanted to try that Gadget out.. I had no Spark initially,my points had a Crust on them,and I`m pretty sure that`s why I had no Spark..I installed the Electronic module in about 3 minutes.I didn`t want to cut any wires so,by removing the Points Cover, loosening off the Points wire ,and twisting the Positive pole on the Module to that wire, with the supplied in the Kit "Marret",I made my hook-up.I used one of the Points covers` long Screws and put the Ground wire to it,and made the Ground connection through the Points Frame. Ta Daaa!! Got spark immediately.I did this set-up as a temporary fix Just to get my engine to run again.Definately not a permanent fix..I`ll most likely go back to points,and do a good comparison later on.

My 1`st impression on the Mega-Fire II.. I like it. Told me my coil was good right away.Very easy to install..I`ll give it a good work out later on, and see just how good it is Compared to points.. Was definately easier than Aligning & Gapping, a Condensor/Point set-up. I`ld say nearly Idiot Proof..Nothing Bad,that I can say about that product at this point.I would have to use it for a While, before recommending it to anyone else though.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Anybody see a Muffler like this Before? I`ve been looking at Other members pictures, and I haven`t seen anything like it .Is this a Factory equipped muffler ?

Last pic.is a clutch Rebuild that I did, when I was about 20 years old. I chopped it up from a Sheet of 1/2" Brake shoe relining material.Pretty Ruff looking job, but I think it had to do with making it work(fit) on/from the Size of Piece/sheet I had available to make the disk from..If I remember correctly the Sheet was full of Asbestos, and had a Brass type of thread woven Through out it..Guess what,, 24 years later,,It still works ..LOL
 

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It looks to be the same as a 990, which would be 3/8" x 35.75"

They both use the same grill, so the s/g should be in the same place.

That's my best guess.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks again Glen ,I`ll see what I can find for a Low cost,aftermarket Belt around here. I`ve pulled the engine over by rope, about 10 times so far,and that`s getting pretty annoying already.
 

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.After sitting out in the Field so long,I think the oil on the Rotating components in the engine has sort of "dried up". Here`s that video of the engine running (sort of),yesterday evening. If you listen closely you can hear it Clacking/Knocking. I haven`t changed it`s oil yet .The oil still looks Clean and new,actually it looks as if I just changed it yesterday, though, I think I would have remembered doing that. I really don`t want to open up this engine,but if I have to, I will..What you see in the Video is basically all the time that it has had for running ,minus the few seconds that it took to throw the rope down, and for me to turn around and grab the camera.. I sure wish Briggs had put a oil filter, and Hi volume oil pump in these old Cast Iron engines. I`m going to have to do something about Re-wetting the Internals of this Engine,with oil. I really don`t like the Idea of just Starting it again, and Waiting for the Oil slinger to "wet out" all the internal parts,while it is running.Doing that might just lead to a Permanent Knock,or worse..The engine May look Horrible,but it always had Fresh Clean oil,and was/is very healthy.It never had a noise like that before,I`m certain it developed due to sitting for so long, and not being run.

..In the Video if you look Closely you can see that my fuel Tank is not Hooked up..I think the Tank is Screwed,and I`ll need to find a New one,due to the Corrosion and Crud in it. If I can`t find a new one, I`ll re-line the interior of the Tank ,but would prefer to just get another..What I did to get it started was fill the Fuel line with gas,tossed some gas down the Throat of the Carburator, and a wee bit more fuel down the Spark plug Hole. The Carb is not properly installed to the Choke control, or the Govenor either.The throttle and Choke cable are both Seized, so that will need to be looked at and fixed, or replaced.This Carb., I have no Idea what it was originally on or from.I got it out of a Friends Junk Box.It was a Flow Jet, so I snatched it up,just so I had something to use for now.That carb has had a pretty hard life too.It has some sort of Plastic cap ,taped and wired on where the Big Welch plug is supposed to be located at the Bottom of the Carb,in line with the Choke plate. I did nothing to it, except bolt it on.That and what I described in an earlier post about a fuel inlet.If I don`t stumble across my original Factory installed carb for this engine,I`ll rebuild ,and re-Jet this one, that is Bolted to the intake manifold now.

..The next time I try to start the engine, I`m going to add a little 2 Stroke oil to the Fuel.At least that way I know the Top end is getting a bit of oil.If that doesn`t give the engine enough time to Splash oil, and re-lube the internals,and stop the clacking after 20 seconds, or so, I`ll pull the engine out of the tractor, flip it upside down,Rotate the Crank a few times, and re-install it again.If that doesn`t cure the engine Noise,then I`ll have to go in and take a look at what`s going on inside..I`m open to other ideas for getting the oil into the Rotating parts, if anyone has a suggestion,I`m listening.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsuFQE07Vj8
 

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It may have carbon coming loose ,after a motor sits a long time the carbon can come off the valves under the heads of them and the piston too..some old Briggs had cast iron pistons too,which always made SOME noise..often the camshaft makes a knock if its the type that has a hollow shaft with a pin going though it for its "axle" too,as they age and get a bit of slop..

I see you tried what I did,using a ford gas filter--it may or may not work for you,sometimes they wont allow enough fuel to pass through for the engine to run right,on gravity feed alone,they were made to be used with a fuel pump..and do I see another car style in-line filter in addition to that one?..if it is,I'd think that TWO filters of tha design may well cause problems,but by running it is the only way to tell for sure..

My Briggs 8 HP has a Flo-Jet too,I tried the ford filter,and ended up taking it off in favor of a screen type disc filter..it made the engine seem to starve for fuel when the tank was below half full,and it also had a 5/16" fuel hose barb,I had a hard time getting my 1/4" gas line on it!..originally they used steel or copper tubing on those carbs for the fuel line..which I prefer over rubber,but mine is staying rubber for now..

I've never seen a muffler like that one,but I'd say it looks factory..

Asfor those points eliminator modules,I like them,but they are getting harder to find locally,I guess all the shops think all the points engines are long ago scrapped or something..too bad they dont work on all engines,like my older 7 HP Briggs with a coil that has 3 legs,and more than one flywheel magnet..
Once I use one I never go back to points.on engines with them hidden under the flywheel,but those with external points I dont mind keeping them..its a pain pulling the flywheel off every year to clean points..
 

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sweet sounds like its coming along quite well. Mine has sat for a long time. I am sure I wont get as lucky as you did. but congrats on the fire up
 

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I've put megafires on my stihl chainsaw and another pushmower...they're great. Bought 3 of them on the web for future use since I always buy old equipment. Those filters will starve an engine, they're made for pressure gas not gravity feed. You might want to drive a punch threw that ford filter to keep the connection and put a screen filter on it. They sell them at tractor supply for 5 bucks.
 

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If you're worried about the top end getting oil then squirt some light oil in the spark plug hole....that way the rings won't slide dry and score the cylinder. Turn it by hand a few times.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Hi Everyone.Hope you all are having a nice weekend,and getting a bit of work done on,or,some use out of your Tractors. Myself, didn`t have a chance to do anything with Ol`Blue yesterday.Well, I guess that`s not totally true, I did manage to pick up a new belt for the Generator/Starter Drive. Plus, I managed to Put it in place around the Pulleys,but, not Adjusted for tension yet. I ended up Getting a Dayco #3L360 @ 3/8" X 36" .I could not get Fractional Lengths for that Belt.I had a Choice of 35",or 36" but no 35.750" Belt..I`m pretty certain that I`ll be able to Pull the Slack out, when I adjust the Generator/Starter away from the engine..Glen your Info was Bang on.Thanks again..By purchasing the slightly longer Dayco Belt @ $8.50,I saved about $20.00 by not getting the Briggs Name Brand. 66+% savings..I`ll Take it .So what, if it doesn`t say Briggs on it,It will function just as well..

..Tractor I suppose that carbon could have fallen off,,but, I would be more inclined to think that a valve is a little Stucky..It`s a sort of a Clacking sound, similar to the noise, a loose rocker arm on a Small Block Chevy makes. It`s a Noise that is Completely new for this engine,it didn`t sound like that before..I really don`t think, it`s the Noises you are describing about the Piston, and Cam.This tractor has been in the immediate Family for 29 years now.I would have recognized this Clack, same as I recognize my Sisters Voice.They`re both part of the Family..LOL. Please,,,just DON`T tell Her, I compared her to a Tractor..:sidelaugh

..Good Eye, Guys. Yes, it`s a Ford Fuel filter.A new Spare I had on hand for my 75, 4V, 429 C.I.Crew Cab. That Fuel filer is just a Temporary thing.The larger Canister type (old Dodge Style) Filter, like the the one Tractor Holic Spotted on the OLD fuel Line, is usually what I use on that tractor. Those have always worked really well for me on that engine,and I can find them for about $3.00-4.00 locally. If you look close in that video you can see the Fuel hose (has a Red Clamp on it) ,is leaned up against the Tank ,but not connected to that tank..That tank Is pretty much Junk..The hose I did use was just used to get fuel into the Float Bowl.I know,not the proper way to do things,but,all I wanted to do is get that engine fired up,even if it`s only for a few seconds at a time..I promise I`ll do things properly, once I find a new Fuel Cell. I have a feeling you guy`s will see Quite a bit more, "Jerry Riggin" out of me, Before, I give the Final "Ta-daa, it`s Finished"..

..Joe not sure how old your Stihl Saw is, but if it had an electronic ignition from Factory,,It`s warrantied for life,and a dealer will replace it free of Charge..

..Gents`,I`m going to test your Theory on The Ford fuel Filter today,and put the results on Video..The Filter that I screwed on to the Flo-Jet Carb is brand new so I`ll use that for the Test.I`m not saying you guys`, are Wrong about it being a "pump only" Filter.I just have an Inquiring mind and want to "see" for myself...I guess I`ll be doin some "Jerry Riggin" for this test..LOL.

..Wizard I sure do like your MTD in your Avatar.Was that a JC Penny Tractor? Some people don`t like the "Theme "of those Tractors, But I kind of Wish that my Ol`Blue,was Ol`Yeller..LOL. If that`s the tractor that you think I`m ahead of you with,I would have to say,"I beleive your Mistaken"..It was Saturday Last night So maybe you had a Few, too many..:sidelaugh

..Hopefully have something at least a little interesting this afternoon to show,Oh Yeah, the test results..See ya`ll later,Dave
 
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