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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

I bought a 196? International diesel B414 that I have some questions on for the electrical.

It has a 12 volt alternator on it and a 12 volt battery. The starter looks original as it still has the starter switch on the top of it that is activated by the lever to the bottom left of the steering wheel. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be 6 volt or 12 volt.

According to Tractordata.com the tractor should be positive ground but the battery is hooked up with the negative grounded to the tractor. That and the alternator (not generator) make me think there's possibly been a negative ground conversion done on it at some point.

Before I bought it I did ask the previous owner if it was 6 volt or 12 volt and he said he wasn't sure and didn't even know anything about 6 volt systems.

There's currently no lights on the tractor but I'm planning on adding some back on so I can use it at night and early in the morning. I'm worried that it's still supposed to be positive ground and that he hooked up the battery backwards not knowing any better. It's either that or somebody did do a conversion.

If it's supposed to be positive ground, would the starter still work OK? Would the glow plugs still work (they do work)?

I find the starter doesn't wind the engine over like I expect it to but maybe that's just age and/or the strength of the battery (larger CaseIH battery but not sure what CCA).

I don't want to wire up new lights and then have them all blow if it's backwards to what it should be.

Hoping somebody here is more experienced in 60's tractors/positive ground conversions and how to tell what's what.

Sorry, but I don't know exactly what year my tractor is as somebody removed the S/N plate off the side of it at some point. :eek:(

Appreciate any help and info you can provide.

Grant
 

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:MTF_wel2:..

I base my answer on what is done on the Ford N's.

If it has a 12 volt alternator on it and a 12 volt battery, it should be a negative ground. The starter does not care if its 6v or 12v.

Also on the N's, there is an inline resistor to reduce the voltage to the coil to 6v.

I hope this helps..:trink40:
 

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Lights and glow plugs are not particular as to if they are on a positive or negative grounded system (they are not polarity sensitive). A permanent magnet DC motor will turn backwards if you switch the polarity, while a wound stator DC motor won't care. I believe starters are of the later type, and would still spin the proper direction.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks a lot - appreciate the info guys.

Went to start it on the weekend and it looks like the solenoid switch (mounted on the firewall not the starter) packed it in. Maybe that's part of my not so great starting.

Of course I was still able to start it by crossing 2 terminals on the solenoid (spins the starter) and holding down the start handle (engages the bendix) but it's a pain to remove the muffler, air intake, unlock the hood, lift it, etc.

Need to source a new solenoid now.

Grant
 

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Stay with the 12v negative ground and the biggest battery you can get in the box. A diesel engine needs a lot of cranking power.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yes for sure I plan to.

Wish I knew what CCA the battery is but there's nothing on the outside of the case displaying what it is. It is a fair sized CIH battery though. Hopefully it'll do the job this winter.

Grant
 

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i used to work for someone who had 414 diesel. good little tractor. the boss said it originaly used two 6 volt batteries wired in series. the 6 volt batteries have more cold cranking amps. yes it is a 12 volt system. hope this helps
 

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The British always loved positive ground electrics for some reason. Sounds like yours has been converted to negative ground, especially if it has an alternator rather than the original generator. Yes they are originally 12 volt systems.
 

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If you decide you need a battery don't get crazy on some of the high dollar battery. A Wal Mart, EverStart, 875cca starts may IH 706 and 1466 with no problem. I think they have one now that is 1,000cca.

They also seem to hold up good. My sister just had the one in her p/u go bad yesterday. It was 8 years old this month. I have one in my Kubota B6100E that is 8 1/2 years old. I have two cars that have them over 7 years old. I gave my neighbor one last year for his Ford diesel forklift. It is over eight years old. These are all 7 year warrantee batteries.
 
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