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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, i have a 10A with no spark. I've done all the easy stuff so far; new points/plug/condenser with no success. I believe the coil is behind the flywheel on this version, so that is next. I've come across suggestions for checking the electrical system with a tester but i don't really understand them. I have very little in the way of tools, or experience but I'm willing to do what it takes. What do i need to pull the flywheel? Thanks

Rick




 

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If it were mine I would put an external coil on it. It is what they did with later engines. Hook the + terminal of the coil to the ignition switch, the - terminal to the points along with the condenser, tape off the other lead coming from the engine and you should have gobs of fat healthy spark.
 

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Rick,

Has this tractor ever run for you, or is this a brand new Gravely for you? I see no evidence of a coil ever being mounted on the outside of this engine; which leads me to believe you have an early magneto system.

You need to get all the way down to section 6-7 of this manual,

http://www.oldgravelys.net/pdf/Kohler_K91_K141_K161_K181_K241_K301_K321_Serv_Man_0472.pdf

The early magneto ignition systems have a special coil behind the flywheel which is part of the magneto, hence no external coil.

I do not know how to repair that ignition, or if parts are still available; but you may be able to change over to a battery/coil/points system. I know that Richards sells a kit to convert breaker less back to a battery/coil/points system, it sounds as if you are more than half way there.

You have an electric start tractor and a stator charging system; it should be easy to convert to coil/points if you cannot find easy replacement parts for the magneto system.

Good luck, Roger
 

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Rick,

In your second photo I see two wires/harnesses coming from behind the engine covers.
Is one of those the spark plug wire, then magneto ignition...

Roger,
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Roger, I have never had this tractor running. The two wires on the right side go into that clip visible in the photo next to it, i'm not sure if one is the spark plug wire, as that comes out of the engine on the left side. If this is a magneto ignition would it be possible to install an external coil?
 

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Rick,

Can you post a picture of where the spark plug wire comes from?

The two wires or harnesses coming from behind the cover on the right side, one harness should have two wires in it and that comes from the stator and feeds into the rectifier on the outside of the battery box. The other wire grounds out the magneto coil to stop the engine.

I do not know if magneto parts are still available for your engine. You do not want to just add a coil to that system.

What Richard-tx was suggesting was converting to a battery/points/coil system.

You have the points, you need a proper Kohler coil, a new plug wire from that coil, and change the wiring of the points.

If you wish to go that route there is a basic wiring diagram at the end of this doucument.

http://www.oldgravelys.net/pdf/Com_10A_12_IPL_0872.pdf

What is called the magnetic switch is just the starter soleniod. The diagram does not show a capacitor between the negative terminal of the coil and ground, but there should be one there to keep the points from arcing.

You can give Richard's a call and ask about a kit with instructions,
or you can ask about magneto parts.
http://www.gravelyparts.com/

Roger,
 

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Rick,

In your first photo someone has added a black wire to the condensor, can you tell where that black wire goes? I wonder if someone did hide a coil under the engine covers.

Do you have a voltmeter? Stick a thin piece of plastic in the points to open them, has to be something non conductive, turn on the key to run, not to the start position, what do you measure on the wire going to the points?

Roger,
 

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I did forget to mention one thing about the coil conversion, a new ignition switch will likely be needed as well. Given the frequency in which they fail, a new ignition switch is not a bad idea regardless.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Roger and Richard, thanks for the help. Here are photos that show where the spark plug wire comes from, the 2 wires on the right of the tractor and where they go, and a better pic of the condenser. Thanks again for your help.

Rick


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While the one wire seems to be an add-on I think it is needed. The black wire likely runs up to the ignition switch and gets grounded when the ignition switch is in the "OFF" position to stop the engine. The painted wire likely goes to the magneto.

On the other side of the engine the connector looks stock. The other wires in that connector are for the alternator stator and go to the rectifier/regulator.

What can be done is to temporarily disconnect the wire that goes to the ignition switch. That will help narrow down the fault by eliminating the ignition switch as a possible cause.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
thanks, i will try that. I should add that this tractor originally had a push button to start it, but that has been disconnected.
 

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The pushbutton start was an interesting idea at the time. Whether or not to use it is a matter of personal preference.
 

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Rick,

My 1970 C10A with breaker less ignition has a push to start button and a key switch that grounds the trigger module in the off position; works just like the magneto setup.

Richard mentioned removing a wire from the ignition switch. I believe that would be the black wire and that would be a ground wire to stop the engine.

Can you tell us what happened to the one single wire coming from the right side of the tractor engine cover; where does it go, if anywhere?

You cannot just add a coil to your magneto ignition system. You can either try to find out if parts are still available or you can convert.

Someone may have replaced the ignition switch at some point in time. That is fine if the right kind of switch was used. With your magneto ignition system, you never want to apply 12VDC to that stop wire, that is a no-no and is possible if the wrong type of ignition switch is substituted; applying 12VDC to a magneto may burn a primary winding in the magneto coil.

I guess your current key switch has a start position, correct? And that would have been rewired to the starter soleniod.

Roger,
 

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Rick,

In your second set of photos, in the second picture, how many wires exit the top of that connector? We can see an add on ground wire in that photo just above that connector but we have no idea where it goes; that wire may have been removed from the top of the connector.

Roger,
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I ordered the parts today from Richards to convert this to an external coil. Hopefully it will be an easy process, thanks for all the help and direction so far.

Rick
 

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Rick,

It should be a very easy conversion, but be careful with the wiring on that ignition switch.

Good luck, Roger
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Ok I give up. I know this is very simple for most of you but i can't for the life of me figure this out. I got the parts for this from Richards and am ready to rewire it but i just can't decipher the diagram. Can someone please just tell me where the wires go? I've even tried using some of my other tractors for comparison and just keep getting myself confused. These are the only logical places to connect wires to, what i believe is the starter solenoid, and the rectifier (maybe?), and of course the coil (not shown). I can figure out from the coil to the condenser and I understand the connection between the battery and the starter, that one is easy (maybe they all are, but not to me so far lol).







beneath the red wire in the pigtail is a black wire.

Thanks again, I feel like a dope.

Rick
 

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Providing you now have a Gravely 19223 switch for battery ignition systems and the new harness as shown:
Blue wire will go to Starter Solenoid coil terminal. The small one on the can.
Red wire will go to the Starter Solenoid battery cable post. Side post of the solenoid.
White wire will go to the + terminal of the new ignition coil.
Black wire will go to the + terminal of the Regulator.
Yellow wire would go to light switch or any accessories you want to power. Normally not used.

Negative wire of coil will go to points. Condenser will also connect there.
 

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Rick,

I think the rectifier-regulator is wire wrong in the picture.
I must be missing something. I don't see a rectifier/regulator in any of the pictures.
 
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