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do you think the engine is ruined?

  • yes

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  • no

    Votes: 2 66.7%
  • maybe

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello my son rolled our JD 1025r unto its side it continued to run for 15 to 20 seconds with a black smoke rolling out and then it shut off we were not able to shut it off with a key. I had my local John Deere dealer come pick it up to make sure it was okay or if it would need repairs. They had it for weeks almost 4 weeks and then told me that the engine was ruined it would need to be replaced. This all without doing a compression test or a leak down test to make any discernible diagnosis. They did replace the air filters...that's it. After what they told me was extensive troubleshooting, they did tell me that they ran it for a few minutes and black smoke was rolling out the muffler so they took the muffler off and ran it again for a while and then put the muffler back on and again black/blue smoke was coming out. They also told me that the cab would also need to be replaced as it was so badly damaged. Only damage I really saw to it was when the recker pulled it back up and the windshield broke, up until then it didn't appear that anything major had happened. I'm including a video / picture and would like to get feedback to see what your thoughts are on this engine.
 

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The other problem with the engine running while on its side, is the lack of oil pressure. Engine might have good compression, but may not have any bearings left in it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The other problem with the engine running while on its side, is the lack of oil pressure. Engine might have good compression, but may not have any bearings left in it.
Do you think running 20 seconds will ruin the bearing? What about those demonstrations where they drain all the oil and run a diesel engine for 30 minutes claiming there is no damage done?
 

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Hi David 1025R
Wheel Tire Tractor Vehicle Motor vehicle
I am so sorry to hear about your troubles with the tractor.....to attach a video you will have to post it to a 3rd party like Youtube or vimeo and then post the link on here ...I hope you can get this worked out without going for a new engine...and I hope your son is ok after the roll over
 

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Welcome, glad you son was not hurt.

I would get a second opinion.

I would have thought that all the fluids would be drained, filled and checked again.

Good luck and keep us posted, I see a lot of value in this resolution for others here.

CCMoe
 

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Sorry to hear about your accident. What happened? How was the tractor ballasted?

If you have insurance just go with what the dealer says.

Hopefully it never happens again, but I think most of us would have kept the machine on site and done some of our own diagnosing for a week or so. The usual recommendation after a roll is to get the tractor upright again. Then let it sit like that for several days minimum before attempting to re-start. Do a thorough check of fluids etc before the re-start attempt.

Upon re-start, a fair amount of black smoke is expected. It takes quite a while for all the oil that got into wrong places to burn off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi David 1025R View attachment 2561007 I am so sorry to hear about your troubles with the tractor.....to attach a video you will have to post it to a 3rd party like Youtube or vimeo and then post the link on here ...I hope you can get this worked out without going for a new engine...and I hope your son is ok after the roll over
Yes, thankfully my son was alright. I am hopeful that I can resolve the issue without a $8000 engine which is what the dealership mechanic advised me would be best alternative. Thank you for letting me know about the video issue.
Welcome, glad you son was not hurt.

I would get a second opinion.

I would have thought that all the fluids would be drained, filled and checked again.

Good luck and keep us posted, I see a lot of value in this resolution for others here.

CCMoe
I did let the tractor sit 5 days without doing anything before the dealer was able to pick it up, so most if not all fluids should have drained back down. Yes, I plan to consult with a friends, friend who has been a diesel mechanic for 30+ years. I'll see what he has to say as well. I'm going to pick up my tractor from the dealer tomorrow.
 

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Do you think running 20 seconds will ruin the bearing? What about those demonstrations where they drain all the oil and run a diesel engine for 30 minutes claiming there is no damage done?
The demonstrations don’t show those engines 50 or so hours later. The dealer isn’t going to tell you the engine is ok, because without a tear down, it’s impossible to know. I’m not saying it’s junk, but it’s a possibility. The best option is to make sure the oil is changed and at the correct level and then run it. As UrbanTractor said, it will take a bit to burn off the oil that got into the wrong places.
 

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I would suggest taking it to another mechanic, or diagnosing it myslef. Running on it's side will mess up oil flow, so parts of the engine could have been damaged from lack of oil, but I would lean towards not much. I would take still having blue smoke coming out the exhaust with a grain of salt, as running on it's side, oil gets to places it's not expected to, and it can take some engine running time for that oil to finish getting burned up (for example, the breather tube between the crankcase and the intake).

Alternately, you might just make sure all the fluids are filled right and use the tractor as is. If something is bad in the engine, it'll fail and then you'll know for sure, but I think you'll find it's still work fine for a good long while.

Now, if you are considering some kind of insurance claim, then doing what the dealer says, or taking it to another mechanic to confirm it/do some actual diagnosis might be the way to go.
 

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Did you hear it yourself? make sure fluids are full & run it. listen to it. When the dealer ran it, did it smoke w/o muffler? then smoke with muffler? if so, the muffler has some fluid in it.
 
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Can't edit my post so I'll post as an answer. Many, many years ago I had the misfortune to roll a Case CK580 on its side. Engine ran for several seconds. The only issue we had was getting it started after getting it upright. It was very low on fuel when it rolled over and sucked air into the pump. We didn't realize that right away, but once we did and bled the lines it started and ran for years afterward with no ill affects.

The reason it wouldn't shut of with the key was because it was getting fuel from another source, the crankcase oil.
 

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I'll add my voice to the call for a second opinion. I've also rolled my MF GC2310 with similar results. The difference was that I tore the engine down to inspect the bearings and journals for damage, unlike your dealer. There was no damage after the over run with the ignition off after rolling the tractor. However, one of the injectors seized and had to be replaced, and even then the engine hasn't sounded quite right, but it runs fine. I suspect that the injectors need some professional help.

As for the cab, well, there are replacement artists and there are repair technicians. Here is the result of my rollover with the ROPS.
 
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