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New Addition (My New 816)

143K views 636 replies 45 participants last post by  yamato72 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
OK guys here it is: my nostalgia machine. S/N 13345 which puts it at 1972 (the same age as me!). Classic styling like my family's old 424 but the better drivetrain of the 800s. And the big, fat-XXX look of the Onan twin.







The Good: It has a functioning liftable hitch and rear PTO. Rear tiller. Appears to be mostly complete, it has the axle latches for the snowdozer. Paint is original. It runs and drives. Rear tires are in good shape.

The Bad: Likely needs a new PTO clutch (which contributed to a really good price). Non-existent brake. Most of the switchgear was replaced with patch jobs. Faulty fuel pump was replaced with an electric unit (wired into the headlights!) which continuosly floods the carb. Front tires are shot.

The Ugly: The whole thing is ugly.

This machine was 20 minutes from my house, and I looked over and passed on a very dilapidated 817 before striking a deal on this one.

At first glance I thought it had the later rack-and-pinion steering but I must not have looked hard enough since the S/N indicates it is too early of a model. Hopefully in the next week I can get it pressure washed and start making it mechanically sound.

It came with what is supposed to be a 50" mower deck but I need to check it over some more. I'd like to try the deck on my 18G to see if it is any more maneuverable than the 60" when mowing my tiny yard.

Short term goal will be to get the fuel delivery working and replace the wonky switch gear. Likely PTO replacement over the Winter, though if I can get it running well I'd like to put the dozer blade on it. I also want to get the tiller refurbished and ready to go in the spring.

Longer term, I'd like to look at repowering my 18G and moving its Magnum to this tractor. Clean up and sell the Onan, which runs nicely. I can tell they really are stout motors.

Far in the future I'll restore it from the ground up.
 
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#3 ·
Nice find. It reminds me of the way the 814 looked when I found it. The tiller is a nice bonus.
Being a '72 like mine, it should also have the limited slip dif. unit. They DO work.
Like I said on the other thread, I had no wheelspin when plowing snow last winter, and without chains. I felt it engage (or disengage) once in awhile (a very slight pulsating feeling through the tractor for a second or two is the best way I can discribe it)
and I always kept moving without spinning a wheel. I was surprised.

Hearing the sounds of some Onan twins at the mow in, I'd like to try one myself one day.
P.S. I'd like to get my hands on one of those u-haul trailers.
 
#16 ·
Being a '72 like mine, it should also have the limited slip dif. unit. They DO work.
Interesting you mention the limited-slip, because with no brake, an engine that wouldn't stay running, and the tiller on the back dragging the ground, t was a challenge trying to get it up the ramp and onto the trailer. I watched the tires and only one would spin, making me think I it was a later machine.

Funny that the later 800s dropped the LSD but gained the rack-and-pinion steering. I wonder why?
 
#6 ·
Is that a B43 engine? I have a B43M as a replacement on my Sears, and it's a good engine. The thing that trips most people up with them is the diaphragm fuel pump. They will wear out in time, and too much ethanol in the fuel (including from seafoam and other additives) can cause them to stretch and not work. I had to replace one mid winter last year, and it wasn't fun doing it out in the cold. The carb is mounted to the intake manifold and you can't get it off without a LOT of disassembly, so I did the rebuild in place.

It's a very sophisticated engine for being so small, and I love the sound they make. You'll pay for a carb rebuild kit, but look around on-line and you can get an OK deal. If you find you can reuse the float and only need the gasket kit, it will save you a good bit of money.

I seem to recall someone having a thread about re-lining brakes, I think on a Gravely. If not, it's somewhere here in the lawn and garden forum. On the electrical, are you going to go for a factory correct rebuild, or put together a new and improved wiring set with more modern connections? I think I remember Summit Racing carrying a set Deutsch connector set now, and Cat uses them.

Given the quality of your last rebuild, I can't wait to see how this one turns out.
 
#12 ·
Is that a B43 engine? I have a B43M as a replacement on my Sears, and it's a good engine.

I seem to recall someone having a thread about re-lining brakes, I think on a Gravely. If not, it's somewhere here in the lawn and garden forum. On the electrical, are you going to go for a factory correct rebuild, or put together a new and improved wiring set with more modern connections? I think I remember Summit Racing carrying a set Deutsch connector set now, and Cat uses them.

Given the quality of your last rebuild, I can't wait to see how this one turns out.
That engine should be a CCKA. All cast iron cylinders and block. It should have a mechanical fuel pump on top of the block. It's a very solid and smooth engine.

Save that brake band and reline it if you can. They are very expensive to replace.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Well the brake and fuel pump are definitely first on the list, I'd like to get the switchgear close but wouldnn't mind using a modern, weatherproof key switch. I actually would like to look at wiring in a safety switch for the seat since I would like my kids to be able to ride it when they got older. We'll have to see though.

Reverse clutch looks brand new, forward clutch is toast BTW.

I would definitely buy the decal set from rggraphix.com and use the proper paint colors.

I am actually trying to figure out the tires, these are 23X10.5-12 and I will either go back to 23X8.5-12 (for space reasons, I need to keep this guy's "footprint" small), OR I'll get matching tire sets for both tractors.

I would like to be able to put a modern Pro-G style engine guard on this one, easy enough if I move the Magnum to it, but complicated by the liftable hitch.

This one will definitely stay "ugly" for a while but my head is already full of ideas. I would say I want it to eventually look "stock" except for the powerplant and perhaps the tires.
 
#9 ·
Nice find. Good luck with the future resto and getting all the particulars worked out to get it fully functional.

There was a thread awhile back on relining the brake band. The fellow member bought the brake lining material from McMaster-Carr and used J-B Weld to attach it to the brake band. He said it was holding up well when he posted about it. Maybe this is your way out instead of paying upwards of 80 bucks for a brake band.:goodl:
 
#10 ·
Nice haul.

Check to see if it has the axle block installed as well on the right side. Assume it does. You may find you need a set of "saddle bag" weights on the front to keep it down during tilling. I've been looking for a nice 816 or 817 for a while now as well. The parts situation has scared me away so far though. I'm basically looking for a slightly better winter plow machine and maybe something I can run a York rake off the back of for soil prep and limestone work.

Some thoughts on your comment about the 60" deck maneuverability on the 18G. I've got virtually the same setup on a 20-G and really don't like the big wide turning radius or the front end instability problems. Believe both can be partially attributed to the wide front turfs. Don't like them so far and may swap them out for a set of 16-6.5x8's.

Good luck.
 
#13 ·
CKs have starter/generators. CCKs have exposed flywheel weight/pulley. B4xMs have stationary screen over rotating screen. 800s used CCK or B4xM depending on the model. 816 used the CCKA. 816-T used the B43M.

Trivia:
Only 1 CK powered 400 series is known to exist.
 
#14 ·
Boy, where to start?

First off, I think this is a later 816 than the motor, based on this:



and this:



Here are the S/Ns, I'm assuming the adaptor plate came along with the motor:





There's the usual crud everywhere:





And I have a crack in the frame, left side behind the foot rest. I'd like to get that welded sooner rather than later:



I pressure-washed the tractor but haven't taken pics yet. Of course the electric fuel pump is going to have to be figured out. My neighbor came over and we figured out what the rag under the air cleaner was for: the crankcase breather tube got torn and rather than replace it, the PO stuffed a rag in the there.

The double chin was a 30lb iron weight bolted to the frame rails; directly above it someone in the past had stuck five more 4-lb lead weights. Fortunately it was easy to remove, I'll put wheel weights out front instead.

Gas tank is in good shape. Battery is decent. Axle shaft for the rear PTO is right where it should be.

Brake band is MIA:



Next steps are basically to source a brake band and re-line the forward clutch, rebuild the carb and figure out the fuel pump. I'm debating what to do to get the crack repaired right the first time.
 
#15 ·
The 50" deck is another story.

Based on the IPLs this appears to be an early 70's deck, what with the way the skids are tube steel and bolted on. Overall it appears to be in good shape, with only one problem: the PO ran into or backed into some immovable object and put a big crack along the top, right along the back edge of the reinforcement plate. The whole shell crumpled enough that the outside blades contacted the shell and started digging in. So the deck won't see any use this season. I'll see next year if welding and straightening is feasible.

Aside from it's recent abuse, I'd say this deck got used for a few years and then got stored in a barn for a couple decades. Paint appears to be original and the metal is otherwise decent.









 
#17 ·
Yep, I would agree. It looks like the frame is newer that the engine. The splined clutches and rack and pinion steering are newer than 72. That's the disadvantage to the old style serial number on the adapter plate. Is there another serial number on the underside of the dash?
 
#23 ·
Can anyone with an 816 tell me or snap a picture of the correct location for where the negative battery cable is screwed to the frame? The PO replaced both cables (and interchanged the colors!) and the IPL on oldgravelyes.net doesn't have the 816. The 817 is close and I will probably re-wire based on that, but I would like to know the correct location.

TIA
 
#24 ·
Don't have a picture but both cables are original RED.

Working from memory it mounts under the hydraulic tank on the left frame rail. I just remember it being a serious pain to replace when I first got my 816S. I'll have the hood off later this week and can get you a picture then if you still need one.
 
#25 ·
You are correct, it is supposed to bolt underneath the upper lip of the frame rail with the dash weldment, behind the hydro reservoir.

Since I don't have tiny arms and fingers, for now it is attached on the other side of the frame.

Since pressure-washing and replacing the battery cables, the ignition system isn't working, so I believe it is time to remove the patchwork electrical and re-wire some things, so that is now first on the list, ahead of carb and fuel pump rebuild. And the brake.
 
#26 ·
Is anyone in mid-Michigan interested in swapping rear tires and wheels with me?

This tractor came with 23X10.5-12's and I want to go back to 8.5's. I'm just looking for a straight swap for a wheel and tire set in similar condition. These wheels have some scratches but will clean up really nicely. PM me if you are in the area and interested. There is nothing special about these tires, sorry, but if you are looking for wider rubber these are fairly new and in good shape.









 
#27 ·
I found a painted spot on the tractor "untouched by time:"



Did the red change in the 70's, or was it basically the same color from the 400s up through the 8000s? I'm just curious since this is way more orange-y than I remember. I may paint some bits here and there (thinking the shroud for the tiller and also the 50" deck), and this is the color I want to match to.

I'm definitely going to use the later-style switchgear but I will use the correct coloring on the wires where possible. I hope to tackle that in parallel with fixing the fuel system.

Here is a better picture of the hour meter, as far as I can tell it was installed at the factory.



I got the 50" deck completely torn apart over the weekend, it looks like it basically developed a line of rust right along the perimeter of the reinforcement plate so I'll see if I can get it welded over the Winter. The deck is almost perfect otherwise. It has been repainted, but I'm not sure why since the exterior is in great shape. I believe there is a little bit of play in the spindles so I'll look at rebuilding them. The motor and PTO have to take priority though since I want to be able to use the tiller come Spring.

And a shot of the rear with these massive tires. To me they don't look right on an 816:



There's only one bash in the sheet metal on the whole tractor, the left rear (where the reflector is missing). The attachment lift has had both arms welded, and one kingpin has been welded and the other replaced. The steering is just about perfect but it needs some sort of bushing to replace the hose clamp that is currently keeping the steering column in position.
 
#28 ·
Wish you were closer on the tires. I'd love to have some 10.50's to keep from sinking in the yard. The 8.50's I have aren't much though...lots of tread and lots of age. Slime is working wonders on holding them together through this season.

Looks like a fun project though and you are making good headway.
 
#31 ·
Sorry to hear about all of the "hidden" problems you have been finding. I hope it still looks like a fun project to you. Since you said you are doing more of a resto-mod than a total restoration, I'd encourage you to go deluxe on the wiring. I've never had to look at the wiring and color codes on a Gravely, but when I worked for Cat, I learned the benefits of a well laid out wiring system. Everything they did was color coded, wire numbered, well routed and secured, and designed both to last and be serviced. They had braided overlay on all of the wires for protection, and connectors at all components.

With a little bit of thought, you can make a good layout. While you may not have access to a wire loom braiding machine, you can easily use split loom with T-fittings and other loom connectors. Having all wires color coded and /or numbered makes things SO much easier to troubleshoot, and the connectors at each component made repairs a snap. We would lay out the harness on the machine, tie the wires together with standard wire ties, then pull it off and loom it. Waterproof connectors and splices that were soldered AND heat shrunk (with the better grade of heat shrink with the adhesive inside). made things durable. If you preplan for extra features you may want to add (lights, etc) then you can build in those wires when you put the harness together, even if they are just deadheaded. Mark up a Gravely wiring diagram while you are building things, and future problems just became a LOT easier to trace. A little forethought now and a few extra dollars for good heavy wiring and components can pay off in a lot less frustration down the road.

Just thought I'd toss some ideas your way. Good luck with the rebuild!
 
#32 ·
That's some really good advice. One thing I've seen on a lot of the Kohler powered Gravelys and riders is burnt connectors and wiring. Over time, the connectors corrode and cause a rise in the resistance. This will cause the connector and wiring close by to over heat and char. If it burns through, it will short out and cause even more damage. Look very closely at your connector blocks and I'll bet you will early signs on the tractors 20 year and older.
 

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#33 ·
This is the wiring I have to deal with:



As for this tractor needing a lot of work, well, the way I see it, I'm saving a machine from any more abuse, or at least from a future of neglect before it got parted out. I think of the cart and my snowdozer the same way (and as much $$ as the 'dozer ended up costing, that's how I have to think of it.... :fing20:

This machine has good bones, a lot of potential, and it's a real hoot having a "little" old machine like this to fix up. (and I have to tell you, 16.5HP and 10.5" wheels or not, this thing is dwarfed by my 18G)

Pics of the tiller (before pressure-washing, sorry):





And yes, from what I can tell, all the rear wheels on all the riders (except the 24-G and 900/9000) are the same 12" rim.

The wiring won't be bad at all, on this machine it's only 2 circuits plus the lights and hour meter.... :trink40:
 
#35 ·
I exposed the same true orangy "no, that can't be" color on the 814. I went ahead and painted it in the newest Gravely red as sold by "Gravely" today as I had already bought the paint.
Your tractor looks very solid and complete, a good re-finish/resto tractor. Looking forward to seeing your progress.
 
#36 ·
If you have high temperature areas where you are running wiring, you can get higher temperature wire coverings to help protect things. Some connectors are also available in high temperature versions. It may take a bit of searching on-line to find things, but holler and I may be able to point you in the right direction for component manufacturers.

High temperature areas were always key areas for proper wire routing and securing. A lot of smaller equipment manufacturers always seem to take shortcuts and provide little wire securing. Since you are already going to have the frame at a weld shop, you could easily have them add some welded on links to provide wire routing points. I'll do some digging and see if I can find the kinds of wire routing weld links I'm talking about, and post another message with the info.
 
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