Another Kwik Way- Ford LGT165 project - MyTractorForum.com - The Friendliest Tractor Forum and Best Place for Tractor Information
 
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post #1 of 5 Old 09-18-2019, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
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Another Kwik Way- Ford LGT165 project

I have a Ford LGT165 closed side that I am trying to fabricate a subframe for—I recently stumbled across a near unused Kwik Way loader with all parts and weight box for a price I couldn’t refuse.

I am trying to maintain the KW quick attach/remove feature, and would love to try to copy the s bend subframe setup Johnson used on the LGT that allows the mower carriage to function with the subframe in place. My idea is I can leave the subframe attached most of the time, and attach the loader only when necessary. I do mow with my LGT...I’ve never actually needed a loader but it was too good a deal to pass up!

I am using 1/4” 2.5” square tube to reproduce the frame back to the axle. U bolts clamp it to the axle, and this tube attaches to the factory tab under the tube frame, about mid tractor. I believe this bracket is used for the deck lift cylinder and also mounts the snowblower/plow rear attachment bracket. From this bar, I have tube extending out at 45* to catch the quick attach plates of the loader. They sit just outside the door pan.

For the front bracket, I am reusing the included bracket, and have made an adapter/spacer to connect this to the Ford factory frame holes, and an added hole in the front decklift bracket.

Pump will mount to the front under the front crossmember and use the front PTO, as the factory design was for the original application (wheel horse)

My challenges were avoiding the linkages for foot hydro and brake, keeping the rear implement lift rod path clear, keeping the deck lift mechanism clear, and avoiding the side panels and front wheels with the front braces. Also mounting in a location far enough forward to give good foot clearance and not interfere with pedals (I will need to shorten one pedal slightly.)

My concerns are:

1. There is nothing tying the 2 halves of the rear subframe together. This seems like an incredibly bad idea to me...but I can’t figure out how the factory LGT setup worked. Pictures show it as 2 half? As this is a quick release, there is less rigidity in the post to subframe joint. I’ve bolted my rails to the frame at that mid point which keeps things located, but it remains 2 separate halfs. Is this design doing to tear this frame apart?

2. The front attachment brackets sit quite far ahead of the front axle and quite far outboard of the frame. I needed to do this to clear the side panels of the close side tractor, and get the front brace point out of the way of the wheels. Does this setup look like it will introduce unacceptable stress?

3. Rear subframe construction has the diagonal post support arms welded to my subframe rails at a 45* butt joint. I will be adding gussets to strengthen this. Are there any other suggestions? This seems like a weak point.


I have read most of the posts I can find related to FEL and subframes, and have learned a lot...but I humbly submit to knowledge and experience, and would love any input people can offer. I haven’t seen any homefab ones like this in the various forum posts yet.

I’m using mostly scrap chunks of steel lying around, and welcome the opportunity to improve my welding with redesigns and changes.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 5 Old 09-19-2019, 11:46 PM
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Re: Another Kwik Way- Ford LGT165 project

Not sure how much help I can offer as my LGT is a dedicated loader tractor, not quick attach. It's also on an opensided model with the diagonals tied both to the tube frame on each side and to each other "thru" the engine compartment for rigidity / integrity. The diagonals also tuck in tightly to the snow blower mount holes in the front of the frame.

I'm thinking your front mounts for the diagonals might be too flexible so far out from the frame. I think I might have gone to a full width heavy channel or tube front bumper, and terminated the diagonal forward ends there... but that's just a quick thought going by your pic.

All the same, it's a great looking build, Please keep the pics coming.

Where abouts are you located? These Ford LGT loaders do a great job of snow removal if you drop the bucket and add a snow pusher.

Larry ( in Southern Ontario )
"Jake Built" 1976 Ford LGT 165 / Johnson 10TC Loader / 54" Snowpusher.
"Jake Built" 1973 White Town & Country / 42" Two Stage Snow Blower.
"Deere Built" 2001? Honda HA 4120 / 48" Power Flow Bagger.
"Hahn Built" 1976 Ford RMT 66 RER / Grandson's first tractor.
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post #3 of 5 Old 09-20-2019, 12:21 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for the input. I do feel the front attachments are a bit far out...they are the factory welded brackets in 1/4” plate with stiffeners, and 3 bolts In a triangle so I think they are pretty stiff..the weak point I feel is the additional 1.5” 1/4” square tube I added as a spacer to get them beyond the side panels, and the leverage this arrangement puts on the frame rails at those factory bolt holes.

I will do some sitting and thinking about a front bumper type setup. I’ve honestly spent more time sitting and staring and thinking about this thing than I have building it.

I am located In Squamish, BC about an hour north of Vancouver. We get decent snowfalls twice a year. I only have about a half acre but my son loves tractors so mostly it’s role is driving up and down the yard and street.

The loader was too good a deal to pass up so I’ll have to invent a task for it. I do a lot of moving around of Series Land Rover engines, transmissions and axles. Maybe I could use it for that. Mostly it’s a fun project that gets an hour of fitting and welding every few days. Hard to squeeze in shop time with two under 2! At least until I can find some decent toddler PPE.
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post #4 of 5 Old 09-20-2019, 03:56 AM
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Re: Another Kwik Way- Ford LGT165 project

I'm with Larry and his dedicated loader GT, except that mine has a fabricated perimeter frame, not a tube frame. I'll leave the intricacies of working with a tube frame to Larry other than to say that I, personally, would be more comfortable with a cross member tying the sub frames together under the post mounting pads. As mentioned, I yield to Larry's specific knowledge with tube frames.

Quote:
I will do some sitting and thinking about a front bumper type setup. Iíve honestly spent more time sitting and staring and thinking about this thing than I have building it.
As it should be of you are going to get it right. The more time spent starring and thinking, the better the possibility of getting the subconscious, with it's unrestricted access to ALL of your memories as opposed to your conscious which has a tenuous access to current and recurring memories, involved in the process. Lessons learned on playground equipment as a child, as well as the lessons in physics class in high school, all have some bearing on FEL development and operation. And we all know what happened to the physics lessons at the start of the next semester. For a general example, look up "The Nothing Box" on youtube.


Quote:
I'm thinking your front mounts for the diagonals might be too flexible so far out from the frame. I think I might have gone to a full width heavy channel or tube front bumper, and terminated the diagonal forward ends there
I am in agreement with Larry on this. The ends of the diagonal braces have the greatest load imposed on them and you want all the strength that you can get. I prefer square or rectangular tubing over channel, simply because channel has a tendency to twist with unbalanced loading. Since it will not be a case of unbalanced loading unless something breaks, channel works.

I also prefer square tube for the diagonal braces. Pipe is equally strong in all directions, but the corollary is that it equally weak in all directions, especially when upsetting loads are imposed, such as the bend in the end at the attachment point in the last pic. There is enough compression load on that point to lift the rear of the tractor off of the ground. Think about the ballast load and leverage involved.

All in all, your work is well done, and your thinking process is bang on. Keep it up.

Bob

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Last edited by TUDOR; 09-20-2019 at 04:02 AM.
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post #5 of 5 Old 09-20-2019, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Another Kwik Way- Ford LGT165 project

Thanks you so much for the comments!

I initially tried to use as much of the factory assembly as possible...hence reusing the round diagonals and the front brackets shimmed to fit. With a redesigned front "bumper" bracket, I can position the diagonals where I want and make them any length. I am not an experienced fabricator--what would be a good way to make the "tabs" on either end of the diagonal support tubes? Is 3/16" 1.5x1.5" square tube sufficient? I have heaps of that around, but the metal yard is just down the street if something more stout is needed. The significant bodywork paneling of the closed side Ford makes everything a little challenging, but there's certainly a way.

I am likewise concerned about the lack of a firm connection between the two halves of the post supports. On the Johnson loaders the posts are welded to the S arms, and there is a cross tie forward through the engine bay...my quick connect joints are rigid enough when bolted, but still not solid. The side panels prevent anything going through the engine bay.

I tried to solve this problem by tying the front of my subframe rails into the tractor frame at tractor midpoint with heavy angle brackets bolted to the frame. What I'm not sure about is the stresses the posts may exert downward and upward, as that would tend to try to push the frame tubes inward or pull them outward respectively. The factory snowplow bracket bolts between the frame rails at these same holes, and forms an effective crossmember between the frame tubes and making a rigid connection of sorts between my subframe halves-- albeit via a fairly circuitous path of 2 bolted connections through the factory frame mounts. This whole path keeps the deck lift mechanism, the rear implement lift and all pedal linkages free and clear, but it's nothing like as beefy as the one-piece 2"x3" crossmember the factory WheelHorse subframe had. I just don't know if its enough...but...

I had 2 engineers look over this project (dad and brother). They have no loader experience, did no calculations. As with every project i consult them on, no engineer's seal. But we all grew up tinkering with things mechanical. My explanation of forces exerted (which I entirely learned reading many, many posts in this forum) sounded very good to them and they just added their thoughts to what I'd already done.

Their comments went along the lines of "Why do you even need a loader? Just rent a Bobcat". Further, they suggested the gussets on my diagonal outriggers, and if I was determined to keep the deck lift clear, felt a beefed up snowplow bracket between the frame tubes and subframe halves would be useful to prevent rotational torquing of my subframe halves. A weak point was the 1/4" angle brackets without web/stiffeners. I can easily add them on the left, but there is so much linkage on the right its hard to fit them in. For the front, they were wary of the need to prevent twisting the front frame tubes inward, but I had not yet started on the front brackets when they were here.

There's no substitute for experience though, and I am grateful for your help. It would be very simple to put a rigid crossmember between the post support pads, but I hate using a push mower. A second tractor is a no-go for the usual reason. Besides, I love a challenge.

Last edited by roverdevin; 09-20-2019 at 01:55 PM.
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