300X Lift capacity. - MyTractorForum.com - The Friendliest Tractor Forum and Best Place for Tractor Information
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 26 Old 03-24-2009, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 46
300X Lift capacity.

Have a 3520 with a 300X loader and don't think it is lifting as it should. The book says that it can lift around 1,340lbs. Is there a way to test to see if the hydralic pump is putting out the pressure it is supposed to?
I am having trouble breaking out of a pile of gravel or dirt. It just sits there until I start backing out of the pile and then it will begin lifting. It just seems a little weak.

Has anyone used a CX loader and an X loader on these tractors and if so, could you tell a difference?
Thanks
JD3520turbo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 Old 03-24-2009, 06:50 PM
Senior MTF Member
 
Xcopterdoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 333
Re: 300X Lift capacity.

Just a quick hyd lesson if I may.
The hyd pump does not produce pressure. It produces flow.
Pressure is created in the valve body via a pressure relief valve. Pressure is restriction to flow.
When talking about your loader, Pressure = power and Flow = speed.
So.... to test for flow (pump) a cycle time test would be in order. Example would be... how long does it take the main lift arms to fully extend. Of course the shop method is to install a flow meter and read the results. But the cycle time test remains a good down and dirty field method of troubleshooting.
To test for pressure, a pressure gauge would need to be used to check and set system relief pressure.
By the looks of the date you received your machine, you should still be under warranty, I would take it to the dealer and operate it to show them exactly what it's doing. Now is the time to get it in there before the big spring rush!
Let us know how it panned out.
Xcopterdoc is offline  
post #3 of 26 Old 03-24-2009, 07:50 PM
Professional Homeowner
 
steddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Muskegon, Michigan
Posts: 6,755
Re: 300X Lift capacity.

I've used several loaders with the same type of results. When that loader is jammed into anything, be it gravel to fill sand, it really gets stuck in there. I've had some instances where it will pick up the back of the tractor by picking up the loader, and other instances where the loader just won't move and can't even curl the bucket. Just last Sunday was the last time this was happening. I also noticed that it seemed a little "stronger" as the fluid got good an warm, thus flowing through the valve, lines, and cylinders easier.


Overkill.
I love overkill.

I'm Ted.

How'd you get your screen name?
(Click Here)
steddy is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 26 Old 03-26-2009, 09:09 AM
2000 Posts and climbing!!!

 
wally2q's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 2,731
Re: 300X Lift capacity.

The hyd pump does not produce pressure. It produces flow.

Well in principle this is correct, but as it turns out, the pump is "responsible" for pressure as well. And it is "PRESSURE", not "FLOW" that is responsible for "lifting capacity".

if the pump suffers from excessive blow-by (or if you pressure relief valve is malfunctioning), it will produce "all the flow you want" at zero pressure (no load), because at zero pressure blow-by is minimal. Doing a "cycle time" test tells you almost nothing about the pump's ability to build pressure and lift weight.

If you want to do a test, use this:

Gravel, loose, dry = 95 lbs / cu. ft.
Gravel, w/sand, natural = 120 lbs / cu. ft.
Gravel, dry 1/4 to 2 inch = 105 lbs / cu. ft.
Gravel, wet 1/4 to 2 inch = 125 lbs / cu. ft.

Measure the volume of a plastic bucket or pail, using whatever means you want, then use the bucket to load the FEL with the requisite amount of gravel, to set the weight. Start with 1000 lbs, and keep increasing it, one bucket at a time, until you get to the point you can't lift the FEL any more.
wally2q is offline  
post #5 of 26 Old 03-26-2009, 09:21 AM
2000 Posts and climbing!!!

 
wally2q's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 2,731
Re: 300X Lift capacity.

The hyd pump does not produce pressure. It produces flow.

Well in principle this is correct, but as it turns out, the pump is "responsible" for pressure as well. And it is "PRESSURE", not "FLOW" that is responsible for "lifting capacity". Pressure is not "made" by any valve. It is "made", or built-up by the pump.

If the pump, or any part of the "high pressure side" of the hyd. circuit suffers from excessive blow-by or leakage (or if the pressure relief valve is malfunctioning - ie: opening at a lower pressure then expected), you will get "all the flow you want" at zero pressure (no load), because at zero pressure blow-by is minimized. Doing a "cycle time" test at "no load" tells you almost nothing about the pump's ability to build pressure and lift weight.

Of course, if the pump produces no flow at all (because it's totally busted), it will naturally be incapable of building pressure as well... but that would be pretty obvious. No cycle-time test required.

If you want to test lifting capacity, here is a simple method (assuming you have a pile of gravel that you mentioned in your original post):

Gravel, loose, dry = 95 lbs / cu. ft.
Gravel, w/sand, natural = 120 lbs / cu. ft.
Gravel, dry 1/4 to 2 inch = 105 lbs / cu. ft.
Gravel, wet 1/4 to 2 inch = 125 lbs / cu. ft.

Measure the volume of a plastic bucket or pail, using whatever means you want, then use the bucket to load the FEL with the requisite amount of gravel, to set the weight. Start with 1000 lbs for example, and keep increasing it, one bucket at a time, until you get to the point you can't lift the FEL any more.

cheers fellas
wally2q is offline  
post #6 of 26 Old 03-27-2009, 10:55 AM
Proud Member of the 1K Club
 
JDBrian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 1,131
Re: 300X Lift capacity.

Hi

Wouldn't a 300x lift a heaping full bucket of gravel without trouble. You may run out of space in the bucket before you run out of lift capacity. You may need to use something denser like metal to get to the limit.


Regards
Brian

Brian

JD 2320, 200cx loader, ballast box, imatch, 60in. frontier rear blade, quick hitch, 54in. front blade, Baumalight 7.2kw PTO Generator
24in. worksaver 3pt. dirt scoop, Stihl MS250, Ariens 11HP snow blower.
1974 Massey Ferguson MF 8G (being restored)
1983 JD 314
JDBrian is offline  
post #7 of 26 Old 03-27-2009, 11:42 AM
2000 Posts and climbing!!!

 
wally2q's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 2,731
Re: 300X Lift capacity.

it depends on the bucket size..... 1 yd. of gravel can weigh anywhere from 2500 lbs and up....
wally2q is offline  
post #8 of 26 Old 03-30-2009, 01:45 AM Thread Starter
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 46
Re: 300X Lift capacity.

How much gravel will a 61 inch bucket carry in cubic yards? I have a set of portable truck scales that I can use to measure the weight of the aggragate.
All I can tell you is that I will not lift the rear tires off the ground with no ballast. You can lift something high, and then back out from under it, and it will bring the rear wheels off the ground, but it won't do it on its own.
JD3520turbo is offline  
post #9 of 26 Old 03-30-2009, 06:47 AM
Collector of many tractors

 
Kbeitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northeast Pennsylvania
Posts: 15,248
Re: 300X Lift capacity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcopterdoc View Post
Just a quick hyd lesson if I may.
The hyd pump does not produce pressure. It produces flow.
Pressure is created in the valve body via a pressure relief valve. Pressure is restriction to flow.
When talking about your loader, Pressure = power and Flow = speed.
So.... to test for flow (pump) a cycle time test would be in order. Example would be... how long does it take the main lift arms to fully extend. Of course the shop method is to install a flow meter and read the results. But the cycle time test remains a good down and dirty field method of troubleshooting.
To test for pressure, a pressure gauge would need to be used to check and set system relief pressure.
By the looks of the date you received your machine, you should still be under warranty, I would take it to the dealer and operate it to show them exactly what it's doing. Now is the time to get it in there before the big spring rush!
Let us know how it panned out.
This has been an argument in the pump world for years... Pressure is created by restriction of any kind... But we would not have pressure if not for the pump trying to put more fluid where it cant go...


Kbeitz is offline  
post #10 of 26 Old 03-30-2009, 08:55 AM
Banned!
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 12,901
Re: 300X Lift capacity.

Is your 3520 a ehydro with that load match feature? If so maybe its limiting how much flow its sending to teh loader to stop the possibility of the tractor stalling. This is something i am trying to get used to with my 4520.. its a strange feature to have when your used to a old tractor....
Team_Green is offline  
post #11 of 26 Old 03-30-2009, 12:50 PM
2000 Posts and climbing!!!

 
wally2q's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 2,731
Re: 300X Lift capacity.

How much gravel will a 61 inch bucket carry in cubic yards?

If you have scales, then just load up the bucket until the tractor can "barely" lift it an inch or 2 off the ground.... then drive onto your scales and weigh the tractor.

Then dump the bucket and weigh the tractor again.

The difference in the 2 weights is your load you tried to lift in the bucket.
wally2q is offline  
post #12 of 26 Old 03-30-2009, 07:11 PM
Has anyone seen ChimChim?
 
Brett-JDX748's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Greensburg, PA, USA
Posts: 6,553
Re: 300X Lift capacity.

All I know is that I've NEVER wanted for a 300CX loader, the 300X will take a big enough bite out of the ground that unless you have some serious ballast, you will be in trouble.

When I do loader work by Backhoe is on, and I've never stopped the machine it's never moaned or groaned, my brand new Cub 6284D wouldn't even lift half what the deere does.

X748 Ultimate,
Diesel, 4x4, 62C MMM, SE Seat, Quick Hitch,
54" Plow, 26Gal Sprayer, Soft Cab, 10P Cart.

That knockin, ain't a loose rod, Son!
Photos

Former Fleet:
2009 Craftsman GTS5000 Excellerator - Sold
Photos

2006 John Deere 3320, FEL, Backhoe, 62 MMM - Sold
Photos

2005 Cub Cadet 6284D FEL, Backhoe , 70" rear finish mower - Bought back, LEMON
Photos
Brett-JDX748 is offline  
post #13 of 26 Old 03-31-2009, 10:51 AM
Proud Member of the 1K Club
 
JDBrian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 1,131
Re: 300X Lift capacity.

Hi

It sounds like something is not right. The breakout force is over 2000lbs on that loader so it shouldn't be lazy loading gravel.

Brian

Brian

JD 2320, 200cx loader, ballast box, imatch, 60in. frontier rear blade, quick hitch, 54in. front blade, Baumalight 7.2kw PTO Generator
24in. worksaver 3pt. dirt scoop, Stihl MS250, Ariens 11HP snow blower.
1974 Massey Ferguson MF 8G (being restored)
1983 JD 314
JDBrian is offline  
post #14 of 26 Old 04-04-2009, 01:05 AM Thread Starter
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 46
Re: 300X Lift capacity.

The load match is designed to not let the engine stall when you are lugging it to hard. For instance, if I shut it off and try to push a stump, it will spin and then power down and die, if i have my foot all the way down on the hydro. With it on, it will back off the hydro automatically, so the engine stays reved up. Neat feature, but I don't think the loader is really affected by that.

All I know is that it doesn't lift the rear wheels off the ground unless you change something to the bucket and back out from under it.

Does anyone know if there are adjustments that can be made to the flow, and or pressure on these things?

Thanks for the responses.
JD3520turbo is offline  
post #15 of 26 Old 04-11-2009, 07:58 PM
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4
Re: 300X Lift capacity.

I have a 07 3520 w/ 300x loader and experienced the same thing. Talked to my dealer about it and he mentioned something about an improper setting at the factory. They checked it and made some adjustments. Now it will lift a full bucket of black dirt, gravel, everything I've tried, without even a drop in RPM.

I still wish I would have bought the 300CX.
Claybuster is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MyTractorForum.com - The Friendliest Tractor Forum and Best Place for Tractor Information forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome