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post #1 of 11 Old 10-31-2019, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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New metal building

I recently had a building erected. It is 24' x 35'. I bought it through a local Eagle Carport dealer. The site was fairly close to level so there wasn't too much grading. A cousin poured the concrete and finished it and did an excellent job. Three guys came one day about 10:30 in the morning and put it up and left about 8:30 that evening. I am going to frame inside of the uprights with 2 x 3's since they are the same thickness. I will insulate then and cover it with 7/16" OSB. I have talked with one man about insulating it and he uses spray on cellulose. I read that it isn't good for metal buildings as it contains boric acid. He said he could get without that in it. Does anyone have any experience with that type of insulation?
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post #2 of 11 Old 10-31-2019, 07:33 PM
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Re: New metal building

Nice new building! Sorry no experience with insulating steel building.

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post #3 of 11 Old 10-31-2019, 07:41 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks PA. Thanks to AP for fixing the picture.

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post #4 of 11 Old 10-31-2019, 08:18 PM
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Re: New metal building

I had my wellhouse rebuilt in steel and had it spray foamed. It fills in voids and seals all crevices as it expands when sprayed on. I'd rather have foam than cellulose. It can be sprayed overhead on the ceiling and sticks to it fine. Here's my wellhouse after spraying and before the plywood went up.
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post #5 of 11 Old 10-31-2019, 08:28 PM
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Re: New metal building

I am not a fan of spray foam. After seeing what the inside of the walls of a reefer trailer look like I would never want that in my house or garage. On top of that it doesn't take much to start it on fire and I have had to put out spray foam fires in the trailer shop.

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post #6 of 11 Old 10-31-2019, 08:54 PM
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Re: New metal building

Quote:
Originally Posted by mopar65pa View Post
I am not a fan of spray foam. After seeing what the inside of the walls of a reefer trailer look like I would never want that in my house or garage. On top of that it doesn't take much to start it on fire and I have had to put out spray foam fires in the trailer shop.
That's kind of funny because I worked in trailer wreck rebuild for 13 years (11 years in a Great Dane dealership) and that's why I would recommend it. Sprayed and shaved many thousands of cubic feet of the stuff as a big wreck rollover rebuild mechanic.

I never saw any damage related to foam in a reefer wall that wasn't the cause of water sitting in the foam, usually neglected sealing below the scuff (usually only at sub-floor level) eating away at the aluminum so I'm not sure what you are referring to.

Fire hazard if you get it burning good but so will nearly anything that you get burning good. Foam does have a fire retardant added to it. I don't feel that it's any more of a fire hazard than cellulose, fiberglass, or wood. Most of those trailer shop foam fires are from welding and cutting around exposed foam piles. One of our locals burned his down doing that as he had no fire extinguisher while he was cutting on a reefer with exposed foam--stupid.

Do you research and make a decision based on what you read. I have no reservations on using foam.

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post #7 of 11 Old 10-31-2019, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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All good to think about. There are a lot of air holes where the ribs on the siding meet the corner trim. I suppose spray foam or cellulose would seal that while being applied. I am going to wire it after putting the OSB up so there won't be any electric connections inside the wall.
We had heavy rains today and I checked it this evening. There are small leaks at both windows but nowhere else. I can caulk them and take care of that.

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post #8 of 11 Old 11-01-2019, 12:32 PM
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Re: New metal building

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Originally Posted by Steve Urquell View Post
I had my wellhouse rebuilt in steel and had it spray foamed. It fills in voids and seals all crevices as it expands when sprayed on. I'd rather have foam than cellulose. It can be sprayed overhead on the ceiling and sticks to it fine. Here's my wellhouse after spraying and before the plywood went up.
I agree with Steve on the spray foam... I would look at getting pricing on Closed Cell foam. It will definitely give you an airtight seal (be your vapor barrier if required by code) & you should see an R-value of R-6.2 to R-7 per inch depending on which product they are spraying; compared to most Spray Cellulose which are R-3.5 to 3.8 per inch. That means in a 2.5" to 3" wall cavity to could potentially have R-17 to R-21 with Closed Cell compared to R-9 to R-11 with Spray Cellulose... (if you don't need that much R value you could just spray 2" of Closed Cell). You also wind up with the advantage of being able to spray insulate the roof if you wanted to, which would envelope the whole building. If you spray the roof & leave the foam exposed, just check with the contractor to see if a Fire Barrier Coating needs to be sprayed on the exposed foam. (it is spray-able paint like product, comes in white too which help with lighting)...

Couple other notes:

Most Close Cell Foams will not grow mold or absorb water - verse - Cellulose can & if it gets really wet
Two things happen when cellulose insulation gets wet (with excessive Moisture): The insulation settles & if not properly dried out Mold growth sets in. Mold doesnít grow on cellulose insulation due to its chemical treatment but water-soaked fibers sitting right against wood studs / drywall / etc, which are susceptible to mold growth.

I'm not against Spray Cellulose we use it often in clients homes to fill or top off attics & to fill existing walls cavities in un-insulated or poorly insulated homes (plenty of those in CT). But If I had the option on a new steel building I would look at Closed Cell Spray Foam... sorry for the long post... just something to think about..
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post #9 of 11 Old 11-01-2019, 10:58 PM Thread Starter
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I will look into the closed cell. I like that idea for the ceiling.

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post #10 of 11 Old 11-02-2019, 12:26 PM
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Re: New metal building

Interesting topic. Would the spray foam approach eliminate any chance of "sweating" between the metal siding and the insulation? If so, seems like it would be the way to go unless it contains something that attacks the metal over time.

Do we have any Airframe mechanics on this site? How do they insulate the air
frames on airliners? Certainly can't risk deterioration there for sure.

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post #11 of 11 Old 11-02-2019, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien5044 View Post
Interesting topic. Would the spray foam approach eliminate any chance of "sweating" between the metal siding and the insulation? If so, seems like it would be the way to go unless it contains something that attacks the metal over time.

Do we have any Airframe mechanics on this site? How do they insulate the air
frames on airliners? Certainly can't risk deterioration there for sure.
There is no sweating between foam insulation and metal. All insulated aluminum skinned refrigerated trailers have dry foam after years of use if there are no water leaks from outside intrusion.

There is also no corrosion interaction between foam and steel. I've dismantled hundreds of trailers and scraped the foam off of aluminum, steel, fiberglass, PVC, and wood and have never seen any type of reaction between them.

Reefer trailers have steel unit frames that support the 3500lb refrigeration unit. This frame is covered in foam and does not corrode from the foam on it.

Unless the foam is wet from outside intrusion it is stuck solidly to the aluminum panels and steel unit frame after years of contact with no damage to the metal.

As I stated above the only rot I've seen was leaky sub floor saturated foam and aluminum. There is a high concentration of acid in these areas of a trailer as the truck washers use highly concentrated acid to make the aluminum floor shine so that corrosion is likely acid etching corrosion.

ETA: When I built new insulated walls I would cut wood fir-outs which would screw on to the inside of the aluminum posts. Then new foam was sprayed on the panels. The fir-outs set the thickness of the wall and also isolated heat transfer from outside. In essence the metal panels and posts are 1/2" to 1" away from the inside wall liner. This keeps sweating from occurring as no metal touches the inside wall from the outside.

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Last edited by Steve Urquell; 11-02-2019 at 01:35 PM.
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