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post #31 of 45 Old 07-19-2019, 06:12 PM
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I really see no purpose in these shutoffs except to prevent fuel leakage and associated pollution control that is handled anyway by keeping carb systems in good repair. i.e. its overkill.
I.think its actual purpose is to prevent desiling (run on after the engine is turned off.)

Interesting find however. My 2017 Simplicity Broadmoor usually takes around 30 seconds to start, now I'm suspecting I have the same fault. Tax for the follow up.
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post #32 of 45 Old 07-23-2019, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

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Originally Posted by enigma-2 View Post
I.think its actual purpose is to prevent desiling (run on after the engine is turned off.)

Interesting find however. My 2017 Simplicity Broadmoor usually takes around 30 seconds to start, now I'm suspecting I have the same fault. Tax for the follow up.
I think you are right about the dieseling function, however my courage engine does not diesel since I disabled the solenoid. It did diesel before I adjusted the valves and hasn't since. It is fairly easy to remove and check the function of the solenoid with some 12 volt leads as directed in the service manual. I'm not sure what engine is in your Broadmoor, and it may have a different style solenoid or none at all.

This thread has some good info about how to go about checking the fuel system - mostly in the early posts.
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post #33 of 45 Old 07-23-2019, 08:55 PM
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

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Originally Posted by enigma-2 View Post
I.think its actual purpose is to prevent desiling (run on after the engine is turned off.)

Interesting find however. My 2017 Simplicity Broadmoor usually takes around 30 seconds to start, now I'm suspecting I have the same fault. Tax for the follow up.
That could be an added benefit though few mowers diesel anyways. It is referred to as an anti backfire solenoid and put on by the manufacturer to prevent the pop at shutoff and urged by the EPA to prevent wasted fuel each time it's shut down.
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post #34 of 45 Old 07-23-2019, 09:32 PM
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

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Originally Posted by TobyU View Post
That could be an added benefit though few mowers diesel anyways. It is referred to as an anti backfire solenoid and put on by the manufacturer to prevent the pop at shutoff and urged by the EPA to prevent wasted fuel each time it's shut down.
In my world of small tractors, lowering the rpm for a couple of moments before shutdown generally does the trick.

In the past:
Craftsman, MTD, Snapper, 1961 Ford 801 Powermaster, 1992 LB 4.5HP 580546, 2003 LB 10552 6.5HP Duraforce, IH Cub Cadet 105, 2001 Cub Cadet 2146 14HP Linamar 38" deck, love of my life (Sold 10 Dec 2011), 2007 Cub Cadet 2550 22HP Kohler Vtwin 50"deck (Sold 22 Aug 2018)
In use:
1994 JD LX178 sweet little mower, only 15HP, twin cyl, 38" deck, liquid cooled!
1998 JD 445 22HP Shaft driven wheels, shaft driven 60" deck, diff-lock, hydraulic lift, power steering, fuel & temp gauges, fuel injected, and liquid cooled! This machine has it all!
2005 Nortrak NT 254 25HP Diesel 5' FEL, here's a case of cost-cutting, I only need a tractor 3 or 4 times a year

Going to try to stay Liquid Cooled the rest of my life! Hey, it gets HOT here!
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post #35 of 45 Old 07-23-2019, 10:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

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That could be an added benefit though few mowers diesel anyways. It is referred to as an anti backfire solenoid and put on by the manufacturer to prevent the pop at shutoff and urged by the EPA to prevent wasted fuel each time it's shut down.
Typical of the EPA to make something too complicated and unreliable for the purpose. I guess it works perfectly for saving gas if your engine won't run.

Reminds me of the LEEDS office complex built for our DNRC in Montana - all sorts of cutesy enviro things that just didn't meet muster for usability, like:
- auto light switches that don't work well and are so mysterious no one can figure them out
- LED lights that look like fluorescent tubes - at least 1/3 failed in the first year
- counter tops by bathroom sinks made from recycled paper - stain immediately and need refinishing at least every 6 months.
- recycling holes in counter tops for materials that can't be recycled and take up all the counter space.
- low water toilets with a "yellow" and "brown" button that simply don't flush without several brown button cycles and smell awful - replaced in a year because they were so non-functional.
- Teensy natural-light cupolas that are so far above the ceiling they don't let in much light at all, and add to heat loss.

IMHO these kinds of things don't really contribute to conservation and are gimmicks to make it sound like you are doing something cool and give bureaucrats a job.
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post #36 of 45 Old 07-23-2019, 11:12 PM
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Your blamed "bureaucrats" as being at fault for these ****-poor products, but the real fault would lie with the architect, designer or contractor who selected junk. Everything you mentioned has excellent quality counterparts.

I've worked with building codes for years (decades actually, I spent my career as a plans reviewer and inspector; certified or licensed in several states. Most actually.),

The high energy saving codes (you mentioned LEED) is actually an option, and not state mandated. And these codes are performance codes, and don't mandate exactly how the savings are to be obtained.

Based of what was selected, its obvious to me that whoever picked out these products is an amateur. A design professional would never pick products where the customer would not be completely satisified.

But I share your pain. Theres just so much crap on the shelves today, junk coming in from China that's not certified or listed, fakes and copies it's a real challenge just to know what's good and what's not. An example, a couple of years ago or so, we were notified that fake Square D circuit breakers were being sold in the US. And they were failing after a year. I myself found faucets being sold here that were clearly not designed for potable water but not labeled as such.
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post #37 of 45 Old 07-23-2019, 11:17 PM
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

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Originally Posted by ZTT42 View Post
Typical of the EPA to make something too complicated and unreliable for the purpose. I guess it works perfectly for saving gas if your engine won't run.

Reminds me of the LEEDS office complex built for our DNRC in Montana - all sorts of cutesy enviro things that just didn't meet muster for usability, like:
- auto light switches that don't work well and are so mysterious no one can figure them out
- LED lights that look like fluorescent tubes - at least 1/3 failed in the first year
- counter tops by bathroom sinks made from recycled paper - stain immediately and need refinishing at least every 6 months.
- recycling holes in counter tops for materials that can't be recycled and take up all the counter space.
- low water toilets with a "yellow" and "brown" button that simply don't flush without several brown button cycles and smell awful - replaced in a year because they were so non-functional.
- Teensy natural-light cupolas that are so far above the ceiling they don't let in much light at all, and add to heat loss.

IMHO these kinds of things don't really contribute to conservation and are gimmicks to make it sound like you are doing something cool and give bureaucrats a job.
I agree! Most govt messed things up.
Anything that becomes popular enough....here they come to regulate it. Wait, they say to make sure it is safe.
And people buy this line of crap!

There is a new produce inspection going into effect soon. It is actually part of a huge sweeping multi-decade law passed years ago where the requirements go into effect at certain years. Typical of govt to sneak things in this way.
"Don't worry...you have until 20xx to worry about that" well 20xx is here!!

Sad thing is too many people accept it in the name of safety.
My son (almost 22) almost always sides with them. Maybe just to be opposite or me since I am SO ANTI----EVERYTHING!!!
I keep telling him...yes we need some govt and oversights, but not nearly this many and certainly NOT MORE.
You do realize we got this far and built this entire country and survived this long with far fewer (insert word you don't like here- because it's all true)..is what I tell him.
If I get sick from some lettuce, I will stop eating that lettuce or whatever. I certainly don't want the EPA or whoever out at farms and requiring a new lettuce inspection or paperwork audit and whatever else they are talking about.
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post #38 of 45 Old 07-24-2019, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

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Originally Posted by enigma-2 View Post
Your blamed "bureaucrats" as being at fault for these ****-poor products, but the real fault would lie with the architect, designer or contractor who selected junk. Everything you mentioned has excellent quality counterparts.

I've worked with building codes for years (decades actually, I spent my career as a plans reviewer and inspector; certified or licensed in several states. Most actually.),

The high energy saving codes (you mentioned LEED) is actually an option, and not state mandated. And these codes are performance codes, and don't mandate exactly how the savings are to be obtained.

Based of what was selected, its obvious to me that whoever picked out these products is an amateur. A design professional would never pick products where the customer would not be completely satisified.

But I share your pain. Theres just so much crap on the shelves today, junk coming in from China that's not certified or listed, fakes and copies it's a real challenge just to know what's good and what's not. An example, a couple of years ago or so, we were notified that fake Square D circuit breakers were being sold in the US. And they were failing after a year. I myself found faucets being sold here that were clearly not designed for potable water but not labeled as such.
I agree with your assessment in full, but I know whereof I speak, being one of the bureaucrats that was working for the state. The rest of the story includes:

- The state architects bureau (ie bureaucrats) was charged with design and management of the construction. Montana is substantially below surrounding states for State employee salaries. Good folks frequently abandon Montana for better pay.
- They have been obsessed with money savings and cost cutting for my full 35 year career, usually at the cost of quality materials and design. While they are not amateurs as you suggest, their motivation is not customer satisfaction and quality, but least-cost and low-bid as mandated by state law. Some state rules have been adopted to allow for evaluating bids based on quality assurance, but they are largely ineffective or do not accomplish the intent with the evaluation criteria.
- In the old office basement, my desktop thermometer regularly showed 55 degrees in winter due to terrible "insulated" windows and installation, an example of many shortcuts taken in the design, materials and construction in the 1970's. (fortunately I had forestry field duties so could go outside and be warm)
- The new LEEDS office design was selected as a model demonstration of environmental responsibility by the natural resource agency and has a huge poster touting it as such.
- While the new design has many desirable features, like a window in every office (mine looked out at the electrical transformers), wood truss construction, recycled materials, efficient HVAC (maybe), the list I mentioned is just some of the many idiotic things done under the guise of environmental conservation.

My main observation and gripe here is that many things are being done that don't really further the cause of conservation that they promote, or they substitute other costs like manufacturing and materials that aren't compensated by energy usage savings. An example of this is CFL light bulbs that don't save a lot, have many poorly made versions where 7-year life is really 7-month life, and take several minutes to fully light up especially in cold environments.
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post #39 of 45 Old 07-24-2019, 07:55 PM
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

Oh yes, light bulbs. Bureaucrats and their "let's get rid of incandescence". I've used incandescent lighting for years, often for the heat they emit. Ideal for keeping young chickens warm and in the "pumphouse" for keeping the pipes from freezing. When their damned laws passed, I had to quickly order cases of the bulbs so that I wouldn't have to figure out new processes!!!

In the past:
Craftsman, MTD, Snapper, 1961 Ford 801 Powermaster, 1992 LB 4.5HP 580546, 2003 LB 10552 6.5HP Duraforce, IH Cub Cadet 105, 2001 Cub Cadet 2146 14HP Linamar 38" deck, love of my life (Sold 10 Dec 2011), 2007 Cub Cadet 2550 22HP Kohler Vtwin 50"deck (Sold 22 Aug 2018)
In use:
1994 JD LX178 sweet little mower, only 15HP, twin cyl, 38" deck, liquid cooled!
1998 JD 445 22HP Shaft driven wheels, shaft driven 60" deck, diff-lock, hydraulic lift, power steering, fuel & temp gauges, fuel injected, and liquid cooled! This machine has it all!
2005 Nortrak NT 254 25HP Diesel 5' FEL, here's a case of cost-cutting, I only need a tractor 3 or 4 times a year

Going to try to stay Liquid Cooled the rest of my life! Hey, it gets HOT here!
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post #40 of 45 Old 07-25-2019, 10:53 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

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Oh yes, light bulbs. Bureaucrats and their "let's get rid of incandescence". I've used incandescent lighting for years, often for the heat they emit. Ideal for keeping young chickens warm and in the "pumphouse" for keeping the pipes from freezing. When their damned laws passed, I had to quickly order cases of the bulbs so that I wouldn't have to figure out new processes!!!
I, too use light bulbs for keeping pipes from freezing. Not many things work better.

I absolutely was astonished by the "100 watt equivalent" program that was going on for a while where they substituted a 79 watt bulb for a 100 watt-er, and then tried to compare CFL's, incandescents and halogen bulbs by "equivalent watts" ("say whaaat?"). Sorry, but 100 watts =/ 79 watts, and other types of bulbs do not use the same wattage/light produced as incandenscents. I was trying to balance some indirect highlight spot lights with dark areas for a projection screen and it drove me batty trying to find the right amount of light, and include dimmers (har-har). And of course the color spectrum adds another level of confusion. Mostly, the main outcome was way too little light. I have quite a collection of useless light producing devices. Recently, when LED's became more affordable and some decorative and useful designs appeared, I finally found something workable.

I would like to use all my CFL's for target practice, but then I would have to sweep up all the toxic materials to protect the environment...

One note: I have been in the business of environmental conservation for nearly 50 years, and these trendy EPA things really irritate me because of their hypocrisy and deception (or ignorance) when looking at the comprehensive environmental costs...like the fuel-saving carb solenoid.
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post #41 of 45 Old 07-25-2019, 11:41 AM
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

Quote: "I would like to use all my CFL's for target practice, but then I would have to sweep up all the toxic materials to protect the environment..."

That's what I do with major appliances even if they're only a couple years old. If they didn't work when new, a repair man can only bring them back to THAT point........so, what's the point? With LEDs, the light produced is VERY white but doesn't project so that you can see farther, better.

In the past:
Craftsman, MTD, Snapper, 1961 Ford 801 Powermaster, 1992 LB 4.5HP 580546, 2003 LB 10552 6.5HP Duraforce, IH Cub Cadet 105, 2001 Cub Cadet 2146 14HP Linamar 38" deck, love of my life (Sold 10 Dec 2011), 2007 Cub Cadet 2550 22HP Kohler Vtwin 50"deck (Sold 22 Aug 2018)
In use:
1994 JD LX178 sweet little mower, only 15HP, twin cyl, 38" deck, liquid cooled!
1998 JD 445 22HP Shaft driven wheels, shaft driven 60" deck, diff-lock, hydraulic lift, power steering, fuel & temp gauges, fuel injected, and liquid cooled! This machine has it all!
2005 Nortrak NT 254 25HP Diesel 5' FEL, here's a case of cost-cutting, I only need a tractor 3 or 4 times a year

Going to try to stay Liquid Cooled the rest of my life! Hey, it gets HOT here!
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post #42 of 45 Old 07-25-2019, 12:33 PM
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With LEDs, the light produced is VERY white but doesn't project so that you can see farther, better.
Actually LEDs are available in color temperatures of 2500K (warm) to over 4000K (very white). I prefer the warmer tones.

I also prefer using the equivalent of 150 watt LEDs in the basement and other areas where I depend on hood lighting and 60 equiv in the living areas.

But there are areas where I'll never be able to fully get away from incandescent bulbs. My outside lights turn on at dusk and drop to 1/4 brightness until they detect movement. LEDs will not work in these fixtures (start to flicker or just stop). Garage door opener lights had to remain incandescents until Genie developed a LED specifically for this purpose. Ridiculous price though.

And the master bath has IR heat lamps. Can't replace those with LEDs. Good thing that incandescents will continue to be around for decades to come. States like South Carolina have passed legislation permitting incandescent production and use. (I see a black market developing here. Making a light bulb run down south ..... ?)

I got a laugh over those who are complaining about "bureaucratics" who are passing legislation on things like these. LEDs are being mandated for use in virtually every country on earth. The US is actually behind countries like Russia. China, Europe, etc. All of these energy savings laws are directly related to global warming. (Maybe what we need is more global dimming. Sadly, it may turns out that may the only thing that will save the planet if the oil barons, billionaires continue to have their way.) Ok, I'm ranting. Time for a couple of Rob Roy's.

For those of us who are "older" (70s is still young, right?) it's our kids, kids that will reap the benefits (or the tragedy if we fail.)
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post #43 of 45 Old 07-25-2019, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

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Actually LEDs are available in color temperatures of 2500K (warm) to over 4000K (very white). I prefer the warmer tones.

I got a laugh over those who are complaining about "bureaucratics" who are passing legislation on things like these. LEDs are being mandated for use in virtually every country on earth. The US is actually behind countries like Russia. China, Europe, etc. All of these energy savings laws are directly related to global warming. (Maybe what we need is more global dimming. Sadly, it may turns out that may the only thing that will save the planet if the oil barons, billionaires continue to have their way.) Ok, I'm ranting. Time for a couple of Rob Roy's.

For those of us who are "older" (70s is still young, right?) it's our kids, kids that will reap the benefits (or the tragedy if we fail.)
The complaint about the bureaucrats is not that we shouldn't be doing everything we can to reduce our emissions, actually a LOT more is needed. My complaint is that the political rhetoric and government approach to management results in some bad legislation and misdirected funds and efforts with limited or negative returns to the environment. A feel-good rather than doing-good result. I once talked to a rancher who was very proud of his wind-powered generator connected to the grid. He said it would provide most of his power (when the wind blows), return excess power to the grid (but not much), and he would recoup his $15,000 cost in only 10 years or so. "Wow"', I thought, "what a great deal for all" - until he said "yep, the government paid for the other $150,000 to build it". That government money comes from us tax-payers, not some magical free lunch.

Oh, by the way, I like LED's. The early efforts were less than stellar, but that was a development phase and has resulted in a wide variety of applications that meet the old needs and are useful for a lot of new ideas, too. And they really do save significant energy over incandescents. There are a lot of good laws out there, like scrubbing contaminants and CO2 from coal-power stacks, where results can be measured. It would be interesting to compare the real costs and savings for the many environmental projects out there. Probably won't happen in this country.
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post #44 of 45 Old 07-25-2019, 02:02 PM
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

Most things in the past 15 years or so have been "feel good" laws.
Not realistic at all. Idealistic dreamers that aren't geniuses like the dreamers of the past that came up with things that really helped the world.
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post #45 of 45 Old 07-25-2019, 02:34 PM
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

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Most things in the past 15 years or so have been "feel good" laws.
Not realistic at all. Idealistic dreamers that aren't geniuses like the dreamers of the past that came up with things that really helped the world.
Yes, like the "Green New Deal". Now there's a winner!?!

In the past:
Craftsman, MTD, Snapper, 1961 Ford 801 Powermaster, 1992 LB 4.5HP 580546, 2003 LB 10552 6.5HP Duraforce, IH Cub Cadet 105, 2001 Cub Cadet 2146 14HP Linamar 38" deck, love of my life (Sold 10 Dec 2011), 2007 Cub Cadet 2550 22HP Kohler Vtwin 50"deck (Sold 22 Aug 2018)
In use:
1994 JD LX178 sweet little mower, only 15HP, twin cyl, 38" deck, liquid cooled!
1998 JD 445 22HP Shaft driven wheels, shaft driven 60" deck, diff-lock, hydraulic lift, power steering, fuel & temp gauges, fuel injected, and liquid cooled! This machine has it all!
2005 Nortrak NT 254 25HP Diesel 5' FEL, here's a case of cost-cutting, I only need a tractor 3 or 4 times a year

Going to try to stay Liquid Cooled the rest of my life! Hey, it gets HOT here!
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