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post #16 of 45 Old 07-13-2019, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

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Originally Posted by TobyU View Post
I was just responding to mowergene's comment that he thought they must have screwed up the newer ones. I have never seen any of them after 2007 with loose top cover bolts so you should be out of the woods and good to go.
I have seen lots of comments about how awful the Courage single cylinders are (were?), starting right after I bought the ZTT Cub, of course. I had not heard just why the Courage was problematic and your comment answered that. I'm happy to hear that I might be OK.

I had never looked at any of the tractor forums until I started outfitting that tractor so had not found all the good info available from folks. Now I have several go-to sites that are more than helpful - unless it leads to accumulating more tractors - and it has.
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post #17 of 45 Old 07-13-2019, 06:36 PM
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

I had never gone to any outdoor power equipment forum or this one until I started repairing mowers as a business. This one seems to have the most information over the past years so when you're searching for a problem you will typically end up on this one fairly quickly. I despise the fact that it's call Tractor and that it looks like a John Deere site with the Greene. I hate the word tractor as far as residential riding mowers go. They should get rid of the garden tractor and lawn tractor. They are really just riding mowers. I know some people have a different opinion and they consider a lawn tractor a front engine craftsman style and they consider a riding lawn mower like a rear engine or like an old Snapper but I don't and most don't. There is nothing tractor about these light duty residential grade machines made from the 70s and up. The Ropers and Sears and Craftsman and all the AY peas. These are lawn mowers. Simply riding lawn mowers. I also hate the word PTO. Or I guess that's really an abbreviation. There is no power takeoff on a riding lawn mower at least very very very few. This is a tractor term that gets carried over and should have got been gotten rid of a long time ago. Certainly you can say you take power off of the engine for the pulley but duh, if it wasn't for that you'd be sitting there with it humming and not even moving.
A PTO is a rod with a universal joint or whatever that comes out of machine that spins something like a three-point I think they call it. I don't like those either. I fully understand that when you own a farm or lots of land you use a tractor like the Ford a tens and stuff. I think that's what they're called for hands and a TENS I don't know maybe I'm thinking of 40 and 8 D batteries but you use a tractor from more than one purpose. You pull something behind it to cut grass and then you use it to haul stuff and all kinds of other things I guess. I don't know, don't care to, and really don't care. I am a Suburban boy who has never ridden a horse. I will never bail hay. I have put some straw in the dog's Dog House in the winter time for warm along with his heat lamp but I'm not a farmer. All I use a mower for is cutting grass. That is probably 80 is 90% of the population too.
Now if you do it by land area you would have different numbers but if you do it by population numbers since so many people live in suburbs and cities and use a small mower or a rider, far higher numbers in higher percentage of people have riding lawn mowers than tractors.
Just one of my pet peeves.
I just think that calling a 42 in Craftsman or Husqvarna riding lawn mower a tractor is an insult to a real tractor. And it seems I rarely see any posts on here about standard walk behind mowers. 30% of the population is getting them fixed every season because they won't start but yet there seems to be no post on here. The last one I noticed was a few days ago about an old Toro or an old Lawn Boy. You never find post on this site about a standard 3 year old Toro with a new Briggs & Stratton plastic carburetor that won't run well or start. I know there is a sister forum but that one has very little use. So it frustrates me. I want everything in one place.
This forum is the best resource and the go-to for riding mower information unless maybe if you have a Cub Cadet. The Cub Cadet only site is excellent especially for older Cubs.
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post #18 of 45 Old 07-13-2019, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

"HOO DOGGIES!" I tried a true cold start this afternoon and barely got the key turned when it started and ran great. I can't believe I have put up with this for so many years. It always eventually started so it was easy to put off really getting into the problem. I had suspected the fuel solenoid for a long time but couldn't logically dope out how it would run fine but prevent starting. Due to good (or bad) luck it seems to have gotten stuck in just the right spot so it ran fine but was incredibly hard starting. Maybe the starter will last a while longer.

Not to play the blame game, but it's partly the box store thing. Home Depot (where I bought the tractor), Lowe's and any others don't have any warranty services nearby so any work takes weeks, if at all. They won't even talk about non-warranty stuff. From some other experiences I don't trust the independent mechanics around here, so I am left with my own expertise. I like wrenching but this type of problem can be frustrating since it only occurs on cold starts and I haven't had a lot of spare time during mowing season - forest fire fighting.

Thanks to all who commented!
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post #19 of 45 Old 07-13-2019, 07:02 PM
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

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Originally Posted by TobyU View Post
I had never gone to any outdoor power equipment forum or this one until I started repairing mowers as a business. This one seems to have the most information over the past years so when you're searching for a problem you will typically end up on this one fairly quickly. I despise the fact that it's call Tractor and that it looks like a John Deere site with the Greene. I hate the word tractor as far as residential riding mowers go. They should get rid of the garden tractor and lawn tractor. They are really just riding mowers. I know some people have a different opinion and they consider a lawn tractor a front engine craftsman style and they consider a riding lawn mower like a rear engine or like an old Snapper but I don't and most don't. There is nothing tractor about these light duty residential grade machines made from the 70s and up. The Ropers and Sears and Craftsman and all the AY peas. These are lawn mowers. Simply riding lawn mowers. I also hate the word PTO. Or I guess that's really an abbreviation. There is no power takeoff on a riding lawn mower at least very very very few. This is a tractor term that gets carried over and should have got been gotten rid of a long time ago. Certainly you can say you take power off of the engine for the pulley but duh, if it wasn't for that you'd be sitting there with it humming and not even moving.
A PTO is a rod with a universal joint or whatever that comes out of machine that spins something like a three-point I think they call it. I don't like those either. I fully understand that when you own a farm or lots of land you use a tractor like the Ford a tens and stuff. I think that's what they're called for hands and a TENS I don't know maybe I'm thinking of 40 and 8 D batteries but you use a tractor from more than one purpose. You pull something behind it to cut grass and then you use it to haul stuff and all kinds of other things I guess. I don't know, don't care to, and really don't care. I am a Suburban boy who has never ridden a horse. I will never bail hay. I have put some straw in the dog's Dog House in the winter time for warm along with his heat lamp but I'm not a farmer. All I use a mower for is cutting grass. That is probably 80 is 90% of the population too.
Now if you do it by land area you would have different numbers but if you do it by population numbers since so many people live in suburbs and cities and use a small mower or a rider, far higher numbers in higher percentage of people have riding lawn mowers than tractors.
Just one of my pet peeves.
I just think that calling a 42 in Craftsman or Husqvarna riding lawn mower a tractor is an insult to a real tractor. And it seems I rarely see any posts on here about standard walk behind mowers. 30% of the population is getting them fixed every season because they won't start but yet there seems to be no post on here. The last one I noticed was a few days ago about an old Toro or an old Lawn Boy. You never find post on this site about a standard 3 year old Toro with a new Briggs & Stratton plastic carburetor that won't run well or start. I know there is a sister forum but that one has very little use. So it frustrates me. I want everything in one place.
This forum is the best resource and the go-to for riding mower information unless maybe if you have a Cub Cadet. The Cub Cadet only site is excellent especially for older Cubs.
Interesting rant. You don't like the term PTO (power take-off), but whether it comes out the rear or the front, or even the side, that's where the power comes from. Terms like PTO probably came to be before you were born. Is a tiny sports car, not a car? Tractors come in all sizes. I personally have three different sized tractors. I don't understand where you're coming from. Color me perplexed!

In the past:
Craftsman, MTD, Snapper, 1961 Ford 801 Powermaster, 1992 LB 4.5HP 580546, 2003 LB 10552 6.5HP Duraforce, IH Cub Cadet 105, 2001 Cub Cadet 2146 14HP Linamar 38" deck, love of my life (Sold 10 Dec 2011), 2007 Cub Cadet 2550 22HP Kohler Vtwin 50"deck (Sold 22 Aug 2018)
In use:
1994 JD LX178 sweet little mower, only 15HP, twin cyl, 38" deck, liquid cooled!
1998 JD 445 22HP Shaft driven wheels, shaft driven 60" deck, diff-lock, hydraulic lift, power steering, fuel & temp gauges, fuel injected, and liquid cooled! This machine has it all!
2005 Nortrak NT 254 25HP Diesel 5' FEL, here's a case of cost-cutting, I only need a tractor 3 or 4 times a year

Going to try to stay Liquid Cooled the rest of my life! Hey, it gets HOT here!
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post #20 of 45 Old 07-13-2019, 09:08 PM
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

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Interesting rant. You don't like the term PTO (power take-off), but whether it comes out the rear or the front, or even the side, that's where the power comes from. Terms like PTO probably came to be before you were born. Is a tiny sports car, not a car? Tractors come in all sizes. I personally have three different sized tractors. I don't understand where you're coming from. Color me perplexed!
I call them observations or opinions, or opinions on observations more than I do rants, but I am quite a rant filled person and extremely wordy. . So yes, it fits.

These 2 topics are not a big big concern or pet peeve of mine. Not nearly as much as many other things in life. I did address though that you could argue that the power is taking off from somewhere like the crankshaft of the engine but as I said that doesn't need a word for it because that is a given. Without hooking something to the engine it would be little point in an engine being mounted to a frame sitting there spinning in a circle doing nothing.

I don't think age has anything to do with it and I believe the word or phrase PTO was around before either of us.
It is a fairly overused or misapplication of the term though. PTO typically referred to a shaft for power was taken from a machine or tractor to manually Drive another item or an attachment. A lawn mower cuts grass so the deck isn't actually an attachment it's part of the mower. Once again just a given.
It's also funny how the term pto is used much more for a switch when you have an electric clutch than it is for a lever to engage the blades if you're arguing it is a PTO taking power from the engine to power the deck wouldn't they both be the same and both a pto?
I think of tractors as larger multi-use machines that can have different attachments for different purposes. I think of a riding mower as something that basically only cuts grass. That is what 95% plus of lawn tractors or garden tractors are. They have even cut back on accessories probably due to the lousy k46 transmission. Back in the eighties and nineties you would often see plow and snow blower attachments but you rarely see these anymore. So basically these residential grade machines are simply lawn mowers.
If size is no determination and not having a shaft PTO means no difference then technically a Craftsman LT1000 would be a smaller tractor. Then also, technically, a yard bug would be a smaller tractor. Nobody said the engine had to be up front. The F700 or similar John Deere's have a Kawasaki engine in the back.
A Forrest Gump Snapper would be a tractor or I guess a lawn tractor. Does calling it a lawn tractor specify its only used to cut grass but it's still a tractor. I don't know. I'm not going to Google the definition of tractor because I don't care what Google or what society today thinks it is. When I think of a tractor I think of a large farm implement like a John Deere or a Ford. They are tall and have very large back wheels and usually a 4 cylinder engine 3-cylinder diesel. They don't have as many underneath belly mowers as they do rear pull behind mowers which are powered by, you guessed it, a real PTO.
Unless we're talking about parent-teacher organization which they can power a lot of things but mostly aggravation and gossip or wait, maybe that's just PTA like in Harper Valley.
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post #21 of 45 Old 07-13-2019, 09:36 PM
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

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I think of tractors as larger multi-use machines that can have different attachments for different purposes. I think of a riding mower as something that basically only cuts grass. That is what 95% plus of lawn tractors or garden tractors are.
My JD445 comes to mind with this statement. With the deck on, it's about 12 - 13 hundred pounds. Certainly not simply a lawn mower. Yet, that's its purpose to me. Ninty-nine percent of the time, it mows. There are hydraulic hookups for attachments other than the deck, but they're never used. I have hauled a heavy trailer with it but it's used for mowing. You'll never guess how the deck is activated......the PTO is a driveshaft from the hydrostat. That shaft sits just below the other shaft that propels the machine by powering the hydro from the engine. But, it's simply a multi-thousand dollar lawn mower rather than a tractor, I guess. Did I mention the Ag tires?

I've enjoyed the sparring moment we've had here but this is my last response.

In the past:
Craftsman, MTD, Snapper, 1961 Ford 801 Powermaster, 1992 LB 4.5HP 580546, 2003 LB 10552 6.5HP Duraforce, IH Cub Cadet 105, 2001 Cub Cadet 2146 14HP Linamar 38" deck, love of my life (Sold 10 Dec 2011), 2007 Cub Cadet 2550 22HP Kohler Vtwin 50"deck (Sold 22 Aug 2018)
In use:
1994 JD LX178 sweet little mower, only 15HP, twin cyl, 38" deck, liquid cooled!
1998 JD 445 22HP Shaft driven wheels, shaft driven 60" deck, diff-lock, hydraulic lift, power steering, fuel & temp gauges, fuel injected, and liquid cooled! This machine has it all!
2005 Nortrak NT 254 25HP Diesel 5' FEL, here's a case of cost-cutting, I only need a tractor 3 or 4 times a year

Going to try to stay Liquid Cooled the rest of my life! Hey, it gets HOT here!
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post #22 of 45 Old 07-13-2019, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

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PTO typically referred to a shaft for power was taken from a machine or tractor to manually Drive another item or an attachment. A lawn mower cuts grass so the deck isn't actually an attachment it's part of the mower. Once again just a given.
It's also funny how the term pto is used much more for a switch when you have an electric clutch than it is for a lever to engage the blades if you're arguing it is a PTO taking power from the engine to power the deck wouldn't they both be the same and both a pto?
Well, at the risk of going somewhere I don't care to go...

A Power Take Off - PTO - is a term for any of many methods of getting auxiliary power off a machine besides the wheel drive system. Some are shafts that can have a driveshaft attached. Some are belt drives. Some are friction drives - like a flywheel. Some are hydraulic. Many large tractors had belt-drive PTO's, especially older ones before the 3-point hitch. Any PTO has a method of engaging and disengaging, that can include electric clutches, mechanical clutches, gearshift driven from the transmission, hydraulic. My ZTT42 Cub has two pulleys stacked on the engine driveshaft, one for the trannys and one for the deck. The deck one has an electric clutch, making it the PTO. The type of PTO's used would be determined by the intended use and engineering needs for the implements available. A PTO is what manufacturers call all these things.

A lawn tractor/riding lawn mower/garden tractor (take your pick of terms) will have a PTO of some kind to drive the mower deck. Even the machines used only for mowing have a PTO that engages, disengages and drives the deck, exclusive of the ground-drive system. And most if not all of the "tractor-look" machines have a removable deck, so technically it's an attachment, even if it never gets detached.

How a PTO is used depends on the needs of the operator. If, as you say, 99% of the users just mow grass, then all they need is the mower-deck PTO.

A walk behind mower with blades bolted to the engine driveshaft does not need a PTO. And if you want to discuss them there is a forum on this website for them - it's way at the bottom of the forum menu.

Last edited by ZTT42; 07-13-2019 at 11:16 PM.
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post #23 of 45 Old 07-13-2019, 11:35 PM
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

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My JD445 comes to mind with this statement. With the deck on, it's about 12 - 13 hundred pounds. Certainly not simply a lawn mower. Yet, that's its purpose to me. Ninty-nine percent of the time, it mows. There are hydraulic hookups for attachments other than the deck, but they're never used. I have hauled a heavy trailer with it but it's used for mowing. You'll never guess how the deck is activated......the PTO is a driveshaft from the hydrostat. That shaft sits just below the other shaft that propels the machine by powering the hydro from the engine. But, it's simply a multi-thousand dollar lawn mower rather than a tractor, I guess. Did I mention the Ag tires?

I've enjoyed the sparring moment we've had here but this is my last response.
I'm not sparring or offended that you have a different opinion just don't try to change mine. I won't try to change yours either but I will always restate mine.
I agree with you that a 455 is a tractor. It is bigger and heavier than a Craftsman LT1000 or a JD LA105, L110, D110, E100, STX 38, even LT133.
These are all riding mowers to me.
None have shaft or PTO driven decks like a 455.
Most of them are not made for attachments unless you call putting a pin through a hole in the back and pulling something an attachment. It is by definition but a far cry away from a snow blower and enclosed cab on bigger JD.

Just because a tractor (455) is only used to cut grass doesn't make it only a lawn mower, but all the others I listed are intended to and basically only capable of cutting grass for the most part.
The fact that I can drive a STX 38 around on a farm, or maybe put a blade on the front and scrape snow or level dirt or gravel...doesn't make it a tractor to me. It is a riding mower with some attachments/accessories available.

We all see things differently. I think JD since know for tractors and farm implements...and darn good ones too, leans toward the name use for perceived quality and durability reasons. It works too.

Also worth mentioning as I touched on before that I think its a F735 JD is not thought of my many or all as a tractor as it is mode funny. A big front beck mower. I don't know what attachments or changes are available but it has multi-cyl water cooled engine, PTO, hydraulic deck lift power steering, all things that a tractor would have but many say it a big lawn mower or call them a zero turn.
My Grasshopper has hydros (eatons even) and PTO shaft with gearbox even to drive deck but and there are accessories like snowblowers, brushes, plows, pull behind powered baggers...yet has anyone ever called a grasshoper front deck a tractor??? Not many. They call them riding mowers, machine, ztr, zero turn or just grasshopper.
Probably varies by regions too.

No hard feelings....take care.
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post #24 of 45 Old 07-14-2019, 12:01 AM
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

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Well, at the risk of going somewhere I don't care to go...

A Power Take Off - PTO - is a term for any of many methods of getting auxiliary power off a machine besides the wheel drive system. Some are shafts that can have a driveshaft attached. Some are belt drives. Some are friction drives - like a flywheel. Some are hydraulic. Many large tractors had belt-drive PTO's, especially older ones before the 3-point hitch. Any PTO has a method of engaging and disengaging, that can include electric clutches, mechanical clutches, gearshift driven from the transmission, hydraulic. My ZTT42 Cub has two pulleys stacked on the engine driveshaft, one for the trannys and one for the deck. The deck one has an electric clutch, making it the PTO. The type of PTO's used would be determined by the intended use and engineering needs for the implements available. A PTO is what manufacturers call all these things.

A lawn tractor/riding lawn mower/garden tractor (take your pick of terms) will have a PTO of some kind to drive the mower deck. Even the machines used only for mowing have a PTO that engages, disengages and drives the deck, exclusive of the ground-drive system. And most if not all of the "tractor-look" machines have a removable deck, so technically it's an attachment, even if it never gets detached.

How a PTO is used depends on the needs of the operator. If, as you say, 99% of the users just mow grass, then all they need is the mower-deck PTO.

A walk behind mower with blades bolted to the engine driveshaft does not need a PTO. And if you want to discuss them there is a forum on this website for them - it's way at the bottom of the forum menu.
All true but mainly by definition.
I'm not convinced the term PTO even has to mean on a moving tractor or piece of driven equipment. You could have an engine mounted to a table that drives a saw blade through a PTO. That would take out the exclusivity of having or needing a ground drive system to have a 2nd system powered by a PTO.

Of course decks are removable and by definition it is attachment as why I agree all you stated is technically true by definition. Many/most people consider the deck as part or the machine and it's a given.
The transmission is removable too but no one calls it an attachment. They assume and expect it to be there as they do with deck.

Manufacturers use terms very loosely although in PTO they are by definition correct, just not what a lot of people expect or picture when they see the term PTO. Many think more of the shaft or belt drives to items you often hook up and unhook to a machine like you mentioned. Things like pull behind decks, generators, water pumps etc. I don't know many more than that as I am a city boy who uses riding mowers. Country guys use tractors a lot.

Toro, Hondas, JD and others all make walk behind mowers without the blade bolted to the "driveshaft"/ crankshaft. JD and Honda use a clutch and Toro uses a belt and idler.
This by definition is a PTO system but manufacturers rarely if even use PTO to refer to any part on these machines. Odd.

They call a lever or Button switch a PTO often with no mention of PTO switch or engagement lever or switch. They never call the cable that pulls clutch tight or moves idler to tighten belt a PTO cable but riders do. Again odd.

Is not the system of the belt, shaft, idler etc the PTO and not just the thing that engages it??

Not like a manufacturer doing something makes it right or correct but sometimes they do ,maybe by accident, get it technically correct.

Just observations. It is not consistent.

And that walk behind section....It's there but few people end up there posting. I see all new posts and not many pop up.
Today was one about a JS John Deere with running speed issue. I was happy!
My preferences are as I started out. I don't like the word PTO being used for a deck engagement unless it being driven out the front, rear, or side of a machine I don't like the work tractor use for a residential grass cutting machine that is sold in a department store for under 2500--lots under 1500.

My wife doesn't like the word moist although a great cake is very moist and by definition the word is 100% correct whether she likes it or not.

I will call the next thing in front of her that has high water content "tractor"
"These brownies are really tractor" Then I will get to rant all about our discussion here.
Oh....goood times.

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post #25 of 45 Old 07-14-2019, 04:08 PM
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The peeve isn't such a big deal - and I agree in general, but not as it relates to this site's name. All manner of mowers and tractors are discussed here, all the way from the tiny grass-cut only machines to those that are as big as a small house.

Probably not the place to get into that discussion in this thread though...
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post #26 of 45 Old 07-14-2019, 10:17 PM
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

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I also hate the word PTO. Or I guess that's really an abbreviation. There is no power takeoff on a riding lawn mower at least very very very few. This is a tractor term that gets carried over and should have got been gotten rid of a long time ago. Certainly you can say you take power off of the engine for the pulley but duh, if it wasn't for that you'd be sitting there with it humming and not even moving.
That is so very wrong on so many levels.

You say "The pulley". That in itself is wrong. Most lawn an garden tractors these days have at least two pulleys on the crankshaft. The first one is always powered and drives the belt going to the transmission.

The second pulley is usually controlled by a clutch of some sort, usually electrically these days, and provides the power for implements, usually the mower deck, but it can also be used to power a snow blower or a roto-tiller or other things. The ability to turn on and off the power to implements is the very definition of a Power Take Off (PTO). And if you look at the parts drawings from most lawn and garden tractor manufacturers, the pulley that can be switched on and off is called the PTO pulley.

The term PTO is not specific to farm tractors. Ask any dump truck driver what powers the hydraulic pump that provides the power to raise and lower the dump bed of his truck and he will say "a PTO".

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post #27 of 45 Old 07-15-2019, 01:15 AM
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

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That is so very wrong on so many levels.

You say "The pulley". That in itself is wrong. Most lawn an garden tractors these days have at least two pulleys on the crankshaft. The first one is always powered and drives the belt going to the transmission.

The second pulley is usually controlled by a clutch of some sort, usually electrically these days, and provides the power for implements, usually the mower deck, but it can also be used to power a snow blower or a roto-tiller or other things. The ability to turn on and off the power to implements is the very definition of a Power Take Off (PTO). And if you look at the parts drawings from most lawn and garden tractor manufacturers, the pulley that can be switched on and off is called the PTO pulley.

The term PTO is not specific to farm tractors. Ask any dump truck driver what powers the hydraulic pump that provides the power to raise and lower the dump bed of his truck and he will say "a PTO".
I covered this is a follow up post.
By DEFINITION....yes. It is all correct. I even gave example that a PTO could be for a belt that spans a saw on an engine mounted to table 10 ft away.

Since you (and others) are being picky about fact ans defs. ..Most these days ARE NOT controlled electrically. Most riding mowers....there's that word or words to be picky again, do not have a PTO switch and clutch.
Most RERs, and uo to 42 inch have a lever and you are correct that most manufacturers call it a PTO. Many do not refer to the pulley or idler or the arm that swings when you move the lever as a PTO. I have a Troy Bilt pulled up now and they call the cable a "cable PTO" and "handle asm PTO, and the "manual PTO" diagram only include the handle and cable and no other PTO parts even mentioned in that diagram...but the idler and pulley "floating idler bracket" , "rod asm idler guide", and "flat idler pulley"

So they are not being accurate or consistent in what they call things.

I have said before that I am aware that the definition and the way most people refer and thing of a PTO is the ability to send power to and turn on and off an implement. I just maintain that MOST people do not think of a deck of a mower as an implement. YES. technically it is removable and an accessory but not how most people think of them.
Also note other post that using the definition and not what many or most people think of ...a clutched walk behind mower has a PTO.

NOW??? is the PTO a system? The lever you pull to engage blade? The idler (toro) that moves to tighten belt to engage blade? The pulley on this idler?
Or can it be all or any.....or just whatever you chose to refer to as a PTO.

Big things have PTOs like the dump truck you mentioned. I had a 1947 Mack fire engine that had a PTO for the pump and a lever to engage it. THAT is what most people think of as a PTO. A shaft or belt that send power to something that is additional, not always attached or normally used and doesn't have to be the same attachment each time.
THAT's a PTO to many.

Definitely to me. I use PTOs for tractor PTOs unless it is a real old rider that has a rear PTO then I call it a PTO.

One cane say PTO, PTO switch, blade switch, deck switch, deck/blade engagement switch/button, clutch switch and the list goes on. All of these are correct at least partially.

I will stick to calling the switch a blade clutch switch and the lever the blade lever and calling little 42 inch under 650 lb machines with no extra shafts to drive accessories...riding mowers.
When I have a customer call one a tractor I giggle and think..man they must have never seen a real tractor. But see my definition or though of a tractor is different than some I guess.

I don't think anyone is wrong. Like a "sport car". Many cars are called that by manufacturer and many people would laugh and say they are no sport car but ---by definition----.
That's like using blue book for car prices. I DON'T CARE what any book or anyone says a car is worth.
A car is worth what a fairly large amount or potential buyer will pay for it....it could be said it worth what even one person is willing to pay for it.


Definitions are not ALL THAT matters. That's being pedantic.
As I have now said 3 times in the past 5 weeks.....IT is all RELATIVE...

Exacts are way to likely to keep things inside the box and I'll pass on that.
Everything should considered, questioned, tested, challenged, admired, respected, resisted....to what degree is up to the individual and their goals.
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post #28 of 45 Old 07-15-2019, 03:22 PM
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZTT42 View Post
I have seen lots of comments about how awful the Courage single cylinders are (were?), starting right after I bought the ZTT Cub, of course. I had not heard just why the Courage was problematic and your comment answered that. I'm happy to hear that I might be OK.

I had never looked at any of the tractor forums until I started outfitting that tractor so had not found all the good info available from folks. Now I have several go-to sites that are more than helpful - unless it leads to accumulating more tractors - and it has.
What I was referring to was all the plastic parts internally. In my book, plastic has NO place inside an engine.

I've enjoyed Kohler engines over the years, but I can't understand them making inferior ones to sell for less. Like JD selling Tennessee plant mowers to get into the market. All they're doing is hurting their name. People feel "taken" when they realize what it is they've purchased. These items should come with a warning label ie: Kohler - this engine may not perform well, it might cause you to replace parts - it might actually blow up rendering your implement useless JD - this machine does not represent our name's quality, you may find only a years worth of excellent service and with year # 2, find yourself replacing parts, adjusting parts, and/or increasing your 4 letter word vocabulary and finally by year three, replacing the entire machine.

In the past:
Craftsman, MTD, Snapper, 1961 Ford 801 Powermaster, 1992 LB 4.5HP 580546, 2003 LB 10552 6.5HP Duraforce, IH Cub Cadet 105, 2001 Cub Cadet 2146 14HP Linamar 38" deck, love of my life (Sold 10 Dec 2011), 2007 Cub Cadet 2550 22HP Kohler Vtwin 50"deck (Sold 22 Aug 2018)
In use:
1994 JD LX178 sweet little mower, only 15HP, twin cyl, 38" deck, liquid cooled!
1998 JD 445 22HP Shaft driven wheels, shaft driven 60" deck, diff-lock, hydraulic lift, power steering, fuel & temp gauges, fuel injected, and liquid cooled! This machine has it all!
2005 Nortrak NT 254 25HP Diesel 5' FEL, here's a case of cost-cutting, I only need a tractor 3 or 4 times a year

Going to try to stay Liquid Cooled the rest of my life! Hey, it gets HOT here!

Last edited by mowergene; 07-15-2019 at 03:30 PM.
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post #29 of 45 Old 07-16-2019, 12:19 AM
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

I agree! No plastic inside engines. At least for a start to better quality ones.
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post #30 of 45 Old 07-16-2019, 12:55 AM
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Re: Kohler Courage starting problem - need ideas

I have come accross this more than once fuel line that collapsed into itself from the inside (Cheap thing to check) the fuel line looks perfect from the outside but is shot on the inside.
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