Maintenance vs Warranty - MyTractorForum.com - The Friendliest Tractor Forum and Best Place for Tractor Information
Backyard Round Table - L & G Tractor Related Topics Lawn and Garden Tractor Related Topics General Discussion Board

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 22 Old 05-30-2019, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
MTF Junior Poster
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: CT
Posts: 20
Maintenance vs Warranty

I have a Cub Cadet XT1 46 with the K46. It is about a year old now and coming up on 50hrs on it. Part of me really wants to drop the K46 and do a drain a fill, as I do work it a little, but the other part of me says that I shouldn't touch it, as I still have 2 yrs unlimited hours of warranty coverage, and I'm afraid that doing maintenance on a "sealed unit" may void my warranty.

From what I understand the first fluid change is usually the most important, and something that I would want to do early on. I could wait until my warranty is up, but at that point I feel like it may have taken a lot of extra wear while still "'surviving."

FWIW, I usually try to mow the steepest part of my yard first, then move on to the flat section to give it some time to cool before finishing with the lesser sloped area. I also use it to maintain my gravel drive which is also quite steep. This usually requires my leaning and working to manage wheel spin (open diff) when pulling the loaded drag up the hill, but not sure how hard this is on it. I try not to "beat on it, and if it starts to get too hot to the touch while working on the drive I give it a rest or park over a sprinkler for a few before continuing.

I know I am probably pushing it a little beyond what it was designed for, but I really like the tractor and want it to last as long as possible. What would you do?
INeedATractor is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 Old 05-31-2019, 12:23 AM
Senior MTF Member
 
TriumphMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Missouri
Posts: 307
Re: Maintenance vs Warranty

I've seen the XT1 at the local CC dealer/farm center I frequent for other items, but I'm unfamiliar with its capabilities and build.

If this model does have a sealed unit, don't touch it as for sure it could very well void the warranty, depending on how the warranty is written. It might void the mower as a whole, or just the part that you worked on that wasn't designed to be a maintained item.

If it is sealed, how by dropping the transaxle would you be replacing the fluid? Is there a plug on the top, or go through some cover you've been told about? Is the fluid something you can even get at your local dealer? I'd start there first, because if its' not available and you put in something that the bearings/seals aren't designed for, or a different viscosity than found at a local automotive store, it could spell even bigger problems later on.

OTOH, If it did have a fill/drain plug for doing what you want, that'd be a different story as then the factory would be saying that this unit needs maintenance to do the job over time and has a certain schedule to maintain. Then you could get the proper fluid, or a fluid that's comparable to the factory fluid specs, and do the drain/fill routine, but keeping the receipt and make a log as to the maintenance/date and you'd be covered according to the Magnason-Moss Act.

Del

1967 Cub Cadet 102-Kohler K241(10hp) Kept as original as possible.
1990 Kut Kwick CL20-60-Onan P220(20hp) Front deck/rear steer industrial/commercial mower
2003 Craftsman GT5000-B&S engine(24hp) Manual transaxle
TriumphMan is offline  
post #3 of 22 Old 05-31-2019, 06:15 AM
20,000 Posts & Climbing
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sault Ste Marie, Ontario
Posts: 21,307
Re: Maintenance vs Warranty

Pose the question to the dealer. How he answers may drop the ball back into your court and you'll have a decision to make at that time. Especially so with the work that you're doing with the K46.

Bob

Click for The Hydraulics Forum!

Sometimes you get on a roll, sometimes the roll gets on you.

In Service
MF GC2310, Husqvarna YTH20B42T

Down for Repairs
MF1655 w/ FEL, MF1655, MF12H, MF8H, MF7H
Spending too much time on MTF to work on my toys.
TUDOR is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 22 Old 05-31-2019, 06:34 AM
2000 Posts and climbing!!!
 
rudedawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: MS
Posts: 2,416
Barn
Re: Maintenance vs Warranty

Quote:
Originally Posted by TUDOR View Post
Pose the question to the dealer. How he answers may drop the ball back into your court and you'll have a decision to make at that time. Especially so with the work that you're doing with the K46.
This one for sure....
rudedawg is offline  
post #5 of 22 Old 06-03-2019, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
MTF Junior Poster
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: CT
Posts: 20
Re: Maintenance vs Warranty

Quote:
Originally Posted by TriumphMan View Post
I've seen the XT1 at the local CC dealer/farm center I frequent for other items, but I'm unfamiliar with its capabilities and build.

If this model does have a sealed unit, don't touch it as for sure it could very well void the warranty, depending on how the warranty is written. It might void the mower as a whole, or just the part that you worked on that wasn't designed to be a maintained item.

If it is sealed, how by dropping the transaxle would you be replacing the fluid? Is there a plug on the top, or go through some cover you've been told about? Is the fluid something you can even get at your local dealer? I'd start there first, because if its' not available and you put in something that the bearings/seals aren't designed for, or a different viscosity than found at a local automotive store, it could spell even bigger problems later on.

OTOH, If it did have a fill/drain plug for doing what you want, that'd be a different story as then the factory would be saying that this unit needs maintenance to do the job over time and has a certain schedule to maintain. Then you could get the proper fluid, or a fluid that's comparable to the factory fluid specs, and do the drain/fill routine, but keeping the receipt and make a log as to the maintenance/date and you'd be covered according to the Magnason-Moss Act.

Del
This unit does not have a drain plug, but from what I have read I can drop/remove the trans axle and drain/fill through the fill hole which should be accessible from the top once removed. I also read to refill with 5w50 synthetic motor oil. This is going based on what I have read on this forum and is hopefully correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TUDOR View Post
Pose the question to the dealer. How he answers may drop the ball back into your court and you'll have a decision to make at that time. Especially so with the work that you're doing with the K46.
This is a good idea. I did not even think of calling a dealer for their input, as I had purchased from a "Box Store," but if I had a problem they would be the ones to see it anyways.

Thanks to all for the replies.
INeedATractor is offline  
post #6 of 22 Old 06-11-2019, 11:02 AM
Tech Exchange Moderator
 
Sergeant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kane County,IL
Posts: 15,118
Re: Maintenance vs Warranty

If the transmissions fails Under the warranty Period MTD will replace it . There Not Like Husqvarna They will actually handle the warranty In House . I have a friend with a XT2 GX54D He hasn't Touch the transmission but as soon as the warranty is over He will start doing Maintenance On it. The dealer was fine with Him changing out the fluid if He wanted to do it before the 3 year Unlimited Hr warranty was Up

John Deere Models: 2025R TLB,X748,GX335,140H3,112SF,110RF,Sabre 1542,TX Gator
Cub Cadet Models:0riginal,70,106,XT3 GSX & Experimental Non Production Rear engine rider
Ingersoll Model:3016PS
Simplicity Models:Wonder Boy
White Model: GT2055



MSGT 11 & 18 Series Retired

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke
Sergeant is offline  
post #7 of 22 Old 06-17-2019, 07:06 PM
Senior MTF Member
 
FLHusqGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 198
Re: Maintenance vs Warranty

Quote:
Originally Posted by INeedATractor View Post
I also read to refill with 5w50 synthetic motor oil.
You have some great advice already, I just want to weigh in on the oil if you choose this route and make sure the wrong oil advice isn't followed

The 5w50 is right but it is crucial that it meet JASO MA2 standards according to Tuff Torq.

It should say on the bottle that it is formulated for "Wet Clutch" applications, such as ATV/UTV oil. The K46 has a wet brake.

Most oil for our cars have friction modifiers for enhanced fuel economy and such, this would or could cause harm in the K46. I have left you with all the official documentation I have on checking the oil/ kind/ and maintenance of the K46 from Tuff Torq. I hope this helps.

By the way, the lawn tractor chassis in your XT1 is a very tough/ durable chassis and is also in the Cub Cadet Yard Tractors (XT2). A good tractor.

I left a picture of what I use in my K66 on the Tuff Torq Maintenance schedule. I'll leave a copy of that too.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Cub Cadet XT1 Chassis.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	89.5 KB
ID:	2382301   Click image for larger version

Name:	K46 Air Purge Proceedure.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	254.8 KB
ID:	2382309   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2577.jpeg
Views:	28
Size:	58.1 KB
ID:	2382315  
Attached Files
File Type: pdf cc K46 with Internal Reservoir.pdf (555.5 KB, 24 views)
File Type: pdf Fluids and Lubricants.pdf (83.6 KB, 17 views)
File Type: pdf CAO46TEET.pdf (245.5 KB, 20 views)
File Type: pdf Residential-IHT-brochure-web.pdf (976.1 KB, 23 views)
File Type: pdf OIL CHANGE FREQUENCY.pdf (176.5 KB, 20 views)
FLHusqGT is offline  
post #8 of 22 Old 07-16-2019, 05:17 PM Thread Starter
MTF Junior Poster
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: CT
Posts: 20
Re: Maintenance vs Warranty

Just wanted to take minute to update this thread with the input I received from my local Cub dealer.

Basically, I was told that a "sealed" trans axle is not meant to be serviced, and for that reason, any work done, even it was maintenance, would void my warranty on the unit.

I could hear the person I spoke with asking some of the other employees, and to be honest, I was not impressed with the dialog I overheard. They could not understand/comprehend the logic behind servicing the unit, and kept asking why I would want to do maintenance on a maintenance free unit. I tried to explain that just because it is not a simple task to perform without a drain plug, it doesn't mean that the unit would not benefit from some fresh fluid, kind of like the Briggs no oil change system. This kept going in a circle back to the "It's a sealed unit that's not meant to be serviced, so why would you want to do that." The conversation pretty much ended with them saying when they die they die, and that's all there is to it

That said, I am not sure how I am going to proceed with this. The options I am seeing are...

1. Take my chances, drop the unit and change the fluid and hope I don't have any warranty issues

2. Use it as I have been, allowing time to cool in between working it hard and change the fluid as soon as my warranty coverage is up

3. Use it as I would a larger machine without taking breaks, get stuff done faster, just use the warranty if needed and sell/replace the tractor with something beefier after the warranty expires
INeedATractor is offline  
post #9 of 22 Old 07-16-2019, 05:21 PM Thread Starter
MTF Junior Poster
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: CT
Posts: 20
Re: Maintenance vs Warranty

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLHusqGT View Post
You have some great advice already, I just want to weigh in on the oil if you choose this route and make sure the wrong oil advice isn't followed

The 5w50 is right but it is crucial that it meet JASO MA2 standards according to Tuff Torq.

It should say on the bottle that it is formulated for "Wet Clutch" applications, such as ATV/UTV oil. The K46 has a wet brake.

Most oil for our cars have friction modifiers for enhanced fuel economy and such, this would or could cause harm in the K46. I have left you with all the official documentation I have on checking the oil/ kind/ and maintenance of the K46 from Tuff Torq. I hope this helps.

By the way, the lawn tractor chassis in your XT1 is a very tough/ durable chassis and is also in the Cub Cadet Yard Tractors (XT2). A good tractor.

I left a picture of what I use in my K66 on the Tuff Torq Maintenance schedule. I'll leave a copy of that too.

Thanks FLH for the wealth of great information! The bit about the JASO MA2 standard makes a lot of sense and was not something I was aware of or had considered.

I have bookmarked for reference.
INeedATractor is offline  
post #10 of 22 Old 07-16-2019, 06:18 PM
Proud Member of the 1K Club
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Northern Florida (Almost Alabama)
Posts: 1,291
Re: Maintenance vs Warranty

You may want to bring up TuffTorq's own website in conversation with the dealer, as much good as that may do.
On this page of Oil Maintenance for the K46:

https://www.tufftorq.com/tuff-torq-k46-oil-maintenance/

There are also numerous videos on Youtube regarding oil changes for the supposedly unserviceable K46.
Flaken is online now  
post #11 of 22 Old 07-18-2019, 12:21 PM
5000 Strong & Climbing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Buford, Ga
Posts: 6,275
Re: Maintenance vs Warranty

People have been using Mobil 1 5w-50 or 15w-50 for a LONG time with great results. The wet clutch in a motorcycle motor is a completely different animal than the wet brake in the K46. The motorcycle clutch has fiber faces plates bearing against metal plates. It's the fiber plates that need the "protection" of special oils. The K46 brake is a metal disc and metal pucks. No type of oil is going to give this brake progressive action. It's mostly a parking brake.

BTW, I used Mobil 1 car oil in my last 4 stroke road racing bike. It's use was almost universal.
rayjay is offline  
post #12 of 22 Old 07-18-2019, 12:22 PM
5000 Strong & Climbing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Buford, Ga
Posts: 6,275
Re: Maintenance vs Warranty

I also have a question. If you did change the oil how will the dealer know it ???
rayjay is offline  
post #13 of 22 Old 07-18-2019, 08:16 PM
20,000 Posts & Climbing
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sault Ste Marie, Ontario
Posts: 21,307
Re: Maintenance vs Warranty

Simple solution; 2 year warranty at 50 hours per year equals 100 hours at the end of warranty. After the warranty is up, change the fluid.

When you drain the fluid, evaluate it's condition and make your decision on whether to buy a new tractor with a better hydro or keep that one.

The hardest task for the hydro that you mentioned is mowing the steepest slope, but you're doing it while the hydro is relatively cool. Pulling the drag is not quite as hard unless you are applying ballast for improved traction.

Bob

Click for The Hydraulics Forum!

Sometimes you get on a roll, sometimes the roll gets on you.

In Service
MF GC2310, Husqvarna YTH20B42T

Down for Repairs
MF1655 w/ FEL, MF1655, MF12H, MF8H, MF7H
Spending too much time on MTF to work on my toys.
TUDOR is offline  
post #14 of 22 Old 07-20-2019, 10:09 AM
MTF Junior Poster
 
Jim16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Illinois Quad Cities
Posts: 29
Barn
Re: Maintenance vs Warranty

"if it starts to get too hot to the touch while working on the drive I give it a rest or park over a sprinkler for a few before continuing."

Not sure applying cold water to a hot transmission is a very good idea.
Jim16 is online now  
post #15 of 22 Old 07-20-2019, 11:04 PM
3K Poster!!!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,365
Re: Maintenance vs Warranty

Sell it ans buy one with a filter and drain plug.

Or do what you want( I would not bother) If it does fail under warranty..(which it wont)
MTD will have you take it to a service center. They will never know you touched it if you don't tell them.
How many people do this????? Less than 1% so there is no reason to suspect you have messed with it.

Now....quit buying anything with a K46 in it and the world will be a better place.
TobyU is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MyTractorForum.com - The Friendliest Tractor Forum and Best Place for Tractor Information forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome