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post #1 of 13 Old 06-12-2019, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
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Briggs 14 OHV toro/zero turn

So I picked this toro up, with the briggs intek engine in the pic... Issue it has is in the video...

I took the carb apart and it was missing the throttle plate, crazy anyway it was a little dirty so I sprayed it out, put it back on and now it runs much better but it still bogs way way down when I hit the pto....

What I have done

mild carb clean, added throttle plate
new plug
check fuel line for flow
checked for frozen mowing spindle
the pto engages w/key on not running & blades move pretty smooth

It does not run better with the choke partially engaged

i suspect the governor maybe because when i got it, it was running very slow, now its a little faster but doesnt sound quite healthy...

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Last edited by mrshaft696; 06-12-2019 at 09:10 PM.
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post #2 of 13 Old 06-13-2019, 12:55 AM
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Re: Briggs 14 OHV toro/zero turn

When you engaged the PTO, it didn't sound like it engaged deck immediately. That deck should of roared to life and had a large hum to it, and that's not what I'm hearing.

Then you dis-engaged PTO, but engine still sounded bogged down and seemed that deck was still engaged, then finally freed itself and engine came back up on speed.

I'd remove the PTO clutch and take to dealer to have them check it out.

From what I heard of engine, other than a little valve clatter, was it sounded good with no- load and good rpm.

Just to be sure, did PO put in correct type deck blades this mower calls for?

(edited)

I just thought of something. When you did the video, you didn't bring down the arms as if to mow. They might be a safety feature to keep the deck from properly engaging when PTO knob is pulled, which might be tied into the engine bogging down when PTO switch is energized. I don't have this type system on my commercial mower, so I'm unsure what safety features it might have.

Del

1967 Cub Cadet 102-Kohler K241(10hp) Kept as original as possible.
1990 Kut Kwick CL20-60-Onan P220(20hp) Front deck/rear steer commercial mower
2003 Craftsman GT5000-B&S engine(24hp) Manual transaxle

Last edited by TriumphMan; 06-13-2019 at 01:09 AM.
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post #3 of 13 Old 06-13-2019, 07:28 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Briggs 14 OHV toro/zero turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by TriumphMan View Post
When you engaged the PTO, it didn't sound like it engaged deck immediately. That deck should of roared to life and had a large hum to it, and that's not what I'm hearing.

Then you dis-engaged PTO, but engine still sounded bogged down and seemed that deck was still engaged, then finally freed itself and engine came back up on speed.

I'd remove the PTO clutch and take to dealer to have them check it out.

From what I heard of engine, other than a little valve clatter, was it sounded good with no- load and good rpm.

Just to be sure, did PO put in correct type deck blades this mower calls for?

(edited)

I just thought of something. When you did the video, you didn't bring down the arms as if to mow. They might be a safety feature to keep the deck from properly engaging when PTO knob is pulled, which might be tied into the engine bogging down when PTO switch is energized. I don't have this type system on my commercial mower, so I'm unsure what safety features it might have.

Del
thanks for the reply, correct there is no loud hum to the deck because the engine bogs all the way down & blades start to spin very slowly, but never to full rpm.

As far as safety features there are not many but with the arms down your butt has to be in the seat or it shuts off. Your butt has to be in the seat to engage the pto at all, arms up or down.
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post #4 of 13 Old 06-14-2019, 10:22 AM
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Re: Briggs 14 OHV toro/zero turn

If the engine bogs when you engage PTO, it is either governor adjustment, a worn out engine, or the carburetor 'transition' circuits. Check that the governor arm can move the throttle freely.
CHECK that the throttle control linkage puts sufficient tension on the spring that controls the throttle plate(You DID mess with that installing a new plate) to open the throttle all the way when the control is moved to Fast or Rabbit. Check that the governor is adjusted according to the manual.
The governor will pull against the throttle plate spring. When rpms increase, the governor pulls more. When rpms decrease, due to load mostly, the governor tension decreases allowing the throttle control spring to open the throttle. To work properly, there is a constant pull between the two - throttle spring & the governor arm.
You should be able to see the governor allow the throttle spring to open the throttle when you apply load by energizing the PTO clutch. If the governor doesn't do that, release a bit when the rpms drop, it may need adjusting. If the throttle does not seem to want to open fully when the engine is at rest, stopped, and the throttle manual control is at FAST, something needs adjusting, or replacement. The spring should pull the throttle plate wide open until the engine starts, and the governor closes it a bit to limit rpms.
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post #5 of 13 Old 06-15-2019, 07:20 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Briggs 14 OHV toro/zero turn

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Originally Posted by tomw0 View Post
If the engine bogs when you engage PTO, it is either governor adjustment, a worn out engine, or the carburetor 'transition' circuits. Check that the governor arm can move the throttle freely.
CHECK that the throttle control linkage puts sufficient tension on the spring that controls the throttle plate(You DID mess with that installing a new plate) to open the throttle all the way when the control is moved to Fast or Rabbit. Check that the governor is adjusted according to the manual.
The governor will pull against the throttle plate spring. When rpms increase, the governor pulls more. When rpms decrease, due to load mostly, the governor tension decreases allowing the throttle control spring to open the throttle. To work properly, there is a constant pull between the two - throttle spring & the governor arm.
You should be able to see the governor allow the throttle spring to open the throttle when you apply load by energizing the PTO clutch. If the governor doesn't do that, release a bit when the rpms drop, it may need adjusting. If the throttle does not seem to want to open fully when the engine is at rest, stopped, and the throttle manual control is at FAST, something needs adjusting, or replacement. The spring should pull the throttle plate wide open until the engine starts, and the governor closes it a bit to limit rpms.
tom
thanks for the advice, I messed with it a bit again last night and it still likes to idle real low most of the time & sometime speeds up for a second or two. I am gonna do a static gov adjustment & possibly take the carb off again. I can do a compression test but it seems to pass the test by hand....
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post #6 of 13 Old 06-15-2019, 11:35 PM
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Re: Briggs 14 OHV toro/zero turn

can you just try to open the throttle manually while it's bogged? But be careful as I'm sure that you must have safeties over ridden. You should not be able to engage blades with the seat not occupied.
You say " Your butt has to be in the seat to engage the pto at all, arms up or down."
but are you on seat in video when you engage pto?
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post #7 of 13 Old 06-16-2019, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Briggs 14 OHV toro/zero turn

ok well ill have to end this here, I got suspicious when I did a compression test and it read around 60 psi so i pulled the head, and it looks like someone took a hammer and put a bunch of divits on the outer edges of the piston and head. I think it swallowed the original carb butterfly but it needs allot of work. I am tossing it for another engine. Mystery solved.....not what I wanted but it is what it is....
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post #8 of 13 Old 06-16-2019, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Briggs 14 OHV toro/zero turn

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Originally Posted by 38racing View Post
can you just try to open the throttle manually while it's bogged? But be careful as I'm sure that you must have safeties over ridden. You should not be able to engage blades with the seat not occupied.
You say " Your butt has to be in the seat to engage the pto at all, arms up or down."
but are you on seat in video when you engage pto?
i was in the seat in the vid..
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post #9 of 13 Old 06-16-2019, 09:46 PM
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Re: Briggs 14 OHV toro/zero turn

Unlikely the butterfly made it in there but I bet the screw did.
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post #10 of 13 Old 06-17-2019, 06:55 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Briggs 14 OHV toro/zero turn

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Unlikely the butterfly made it in there but I bet the screw did.
Well I think both screws did one on each side haha.
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post #11 of 13 Old 06-17-2019, 12:41 PM
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Re: Briggs 14 OHV toro/zero turn

The dents won't hurt anything as long as they did not happen to compress the top of the piston so as to grab the ring(s) and prevent sealing. Sixty psi cranking is not necessarily bad as the compression release will reduce apparent compression at cranking speeds. Unless you have excessive blowby past the rings, into the crankcase, it ought to work.
Also, unless you have taken all the 'slop' out of the governor linkage, and adjusted the governor speed (actually, the slack in the internal links) to the spec'd rpm, you should not condemn the engine as bad. Some governor linkages use a loooooooong spring, on or alongside the governor arm, which compresses the linkage, holding the governor arm tight against the rod, and holding the butterfly lever against the rod. Thus there is no delay between governor response to lowered rpm and the butterfly responding by opening the throttle. If you have worn pivots, or sloppy linkage, the governor is handicapped, and may not perform as designed. Dents in the piston crown won't do a dang thing as far as causing bog/stumble when a load is added. If the engine will rev up when manually throttled, it ought to work. You may have gotten a machine that has been 'worked on' by a shade tree learner. Some may make things worse while attempting to improve operations. Parts may be gone, mis-adjusted, substituted incorrectly, etc. If concerned, try to find a similar engine, such as at a mower shop boneyard, and see if you can take a picture, or cannibalize some parts... I have gotten parts at no cost once. Nice people.
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post #12 of 13 Old 06-17-2019, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Briggs 14 OHV toro/zero turn

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Originally Posted by tomw0 View Post
The dents won't hurt anything as long as they did not happen to compress the top of the piston so as to grab the ring(s) and prevent sealing. Sixty psi cranking is not necessarily bad as the compression release will reduce apparent compression at cranking speeds. Unless you have excessive blowby past the rings, into the crankcase, it ought to work.
Also, unless you have taken all the 'slop' out of the governor linkage, and adjusted the governor speed (actually, the slack in the internal links) to the spec'd rpm, you should not condemn the engine as bad. Some governor linkages use a loooooooong spring, on or alongside the governor arm, which compresses the linkage, holding the governor arm tight against the rod, and holding the butterfly lever against the rod. Thus there is no delay between governor response to lowered rpm and the butterfly responding by opening the throttle. If you have worn pivots, or sloppy linkage, the governor is handicapped, and may not perform as designed. Dents in the piston crown won't do a dang thing as far as causing bog/stumble when a load is added. If the engine will rev up when manually throttled, it ought to work. You may have gotten a machine that has been 'worked on' by a shade tree learner. Some may make things worse while attempting to improve operations. Parts may be gone, mis-adjusted, substituted incorrectly, etc. If concerned, try to find a similar engine, such as at a mower shop boneyard, and see if you can take a picture, or cannibalize some parts... I have gotten parts at no cost once. Nice people.
tom

thanks for the info, there was a ton of oil in the passage next to the piston, I only usually see that when a head gasket blows out... I already have the engine out and a good one in its place. I can put this engine on the stand and mess around some more, but it will not even manually hold a higher rpm. The cylinder itself still looks ok, have to look closer if the ring around the piston is damaged.
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post #13 of 13 Old 06-20-2019, 01:22 AM
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Re: Briggs 14 OHV toro/zero turn

My guess is it over-revved and grenaded governor/oil slinger.
For $20 and a head gasket you can fix it and sell of keep for something else.

If it won't rev up when you manually open carb throttle. Check for oil thinned out with ton a gas in the crankcase or ignition coil not firing right.
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