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Briggs & Stratton 26hp ELS air filter problem

56K views 58 replies 21 participants last post by  RoGT5k 
#1 ·
I have a 2004 Craftsman GT 5000 with a Briggs & Stratton 26 hp ELS engine. I have been having a problem with dust bypassing the air filter and getting into the engine. I have been chasing this problem for some time now and I think I finally found where it was coming from. The air filter and intake passage of this engine were inspected and cleaned 1 hour prior to when these photos were taken. The pre-filter was also cleaned and re-oiled at that time. I had been mulching leaves and was creating a lot of dust, but in a worst case scenario it should plug the filter, not bypass it. Luckilly the engine still runs like new. I recall someone else either here or at GW reporting a problem with dust bypassing the filter on their machine (same engine) also but I have never seen a solution.

The air filter is accessed by unlatching a clasp (yellow part at top of 2nd photo) and removing a plastic cover. The air is supposed to travel up from underneath, through the prefilter and filter, into the plenum created between the cover and filter, and down through the "D" shaped opening in the gasket. Somehow, with everything in place, dust gets past the "extended life filtration system" (extended from what?).

This time I think I found the culprit. The surface that the air filter seals on the underside is composed of two pieces, the large plastic engine cover and the "D" shaped intake passage. Running my finger along the two parallel surfaces that butt against each other, I noticed that the cover surface was not very even with the intake. At one end of the intake (right side in first photo of next post) they were fairly even but on the other end of the straight leg of the "D" the cover surface was higher. I believe the air filter gasket material was compressed too lightly against the intake on that side since the cover surface was compressing it more. The photo inside the intake shows a greater dust concentration on this side.

The large plastic engine cover is secured using shoulder type screws. This method provides little to no ability to shift the cover to align it with the intake. However, these shoulder screws thread into sheet metal pieces that are attached to the engine with standard hex head screws in clearance holes. I attached the cover and loosened the screws holding the sheet metal pieces. I shifted the cover until it was aligned as evenly as possible with the intake surface and secured the screws holding the sheet metal pieces.

Since winter came after that, I have not since used this in dusty conditions. This spring I will find out if it is cured or not. If dust still finds its way in, I may put some RTV silicone in the seam between the cowl (a.k.a. cover) and the intake.

Thanks for reading,
Roger
 

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#3 ·
Roger,

Dont know if you are still around since this thread is 2/16/06 old.... But here is my story....


This is my first post to this forum.... I believe I have the same exact situation that you have showned here.

Unfortunately, my B&S ELS 725 26HP V-twin 446777-2044E1 started smoking really bad this year with only 3.5yrs of use..... After troubleshooting, the final outcome was to do a engine rebuild.

After I look at your pictures, I now remember my engine doing the same exact thing but dumb me I didnt question it.... and now the result of that is a worn out engine.

I wished I had persued in finding this type of forum when I first gotten my GT5000 (Dec '04) and would have done something prior to the expiration of warranty.


Last week, I have torn down my engine and did a rebuild.

dismount engine
disassembled engine
de-carboned head and piston
de-carboned valves and ports
replaced rings
honed cylinder walls
replaced all gaskets
adjusted valves
etc.....

After the rebuild....... no more smoking.

Now I will have to figure out how to further isolate unclean air from bypassing the filter.

Oh yeah...... I called B&S customer service to see if there was any way they could help me by extending the warranty for the filter desgin flaw..... needless to say they were no help and up hold the cliche of " Customer no Service "....

Anyways..... B&S is on the bottom of my list for now on....

Here is a link to my pictures that I had taken during my rebuild:

http://entertainment.webshots.com/album/563241592ABmjxK
 
#4 · (Edited)
There seems to be some people that don't beleave there was ever a problem with this engine. But Briggs knows very well about the problem and redesigned the air filter cover to be held on with two screws instead that plastic yellow clip.
They did replace some engines when people noticed the problem early on. But after 3 or 4 years they can lean it to the problem was poor maintance, "so to bad for you" I guess.

Not everyone has dusty conditions so there engine will last a little longer even if it is leaking a little. But my guess is there will be few of these engines that last as long as they where ment to.

I also have the same engine and I have a little loss of power but not to bad yet. Seems the last airfilter I put on looked like it had a thicker seal around the D intake part. But It still sucks dirt.

The problem as I see it is the cover has two plastic progs going into the plastic blower housing. That part is right over the intake spot. The yellow clip is on the other side of the cover and when installed it raise's the cover a little over the intake spot. Plastic changes with heat and then makes the problem worse. This was a new Briggs filter afer 15 hours, you can see the dirt in the intake. You also can see where the filter has a mark showing it sealed, and where the mark stops showing it is not sealing. This dirt is fine and hard to see, I used a light above the camra to help.
 
#5 ·
Hi guys,
Sorry to hear others are having this problem too but I'm not surprised.

GG_GT5000 welcome to MTF!

I adjusted my engine cowl to get the air filter sealing surfaces as flat as possible and worked some RTV silicone into the seam between the cowl sealing surface and the D shaped sealing surface of the air passage to the carburetors. I used a thin strip of metal to wipe sealer into the gap. After that I applied some onto the top surface of the gap and wiped off any excess with my finger. I have run it in some very dusty conditions and it does not get dust in the intake passage anymore. Of course every time I remove the cover to inspect it will drop a chunk of dirt down the intake passage and I need to clean it out again. This happens even after blowing off the outside well with compressed air and cleaning as good as possible before removing the cover. I can tell it is dirt from removing the cover since there are no small particles distributed on the intake walls as seen in the photos.

One thing I plan to do some day is convert this to a K&N universal type filter by making a 90 degree elbow adapter that will connect and seal to the D shaped surface of the intake passage. That way I can be sure I am not getting dirt in the intake, I still don't trust it 100%.

Roger
 
#6 ·
I had the same problem with a 24 horse Briggs. My solution after finding out the cost to repair it was a new mower. It has a Kolher and before I bought it I made them open up the air cleaner so I could see how it worked. One of these days I am going to tear down the Briggs and see if rings will fix it.
 
#7 ·
I'd think twice about using a K&N filter--they let more grit pass through than any paper type air filter will..not just my opinion,I've read many tests that they didn't fare so well on..mostly on off roading web sites ,,folks who used them on 4x4 off road trucks,where they get exposed to much more dirt than your average street driven vehicle..

I'd try to improve the seal on the stock air box, instead of spending money on a K&N filter myself..

Robert
 
#8 ·
I'd think twice about using a K&N filter--they let more grit pass through than any paper type air filter will..not just my opinion,I've read many tests that they didn't fare so well on..mostly on off roading web sites ,,folks who used them on 4x4 off road trucks,where they get exposed to much more dirt than your average street driven vehicle..

I'd try to improve the seal on the stock air box, instead of spending money on a K&N filter myself..

Robert
I wonder if one could buy the shroud and air box, (All the plastic) off the new design briggs and put it on this engine ? Seems that would be the best fix ? Gooping it up with silicone is ok If it works, it would make a good ad for Briggs also on you tube. :ROF
 
#10 ·
I don't know about K&N filters on off road trucks but they do a real good job on four wheelers and dirt bikes. I used to ride in the Kermit sand hills (TX) and no problems. My grandson has a Honda 250R with a huge K&N on it and it has never sucked any dirt. All that said, if I were converting an engine from it's original filter I would go with a foam filter and a Filter Skin or stretch a panty hose overit. Nothing gets thru those.
 
#12 ·
The only thing about the other housing that uses the lid with either a 2 bolt or 4 bolt hold down...... is trying to figure out which carburator intake elbow it uses.... There are a total of three intake elbow.... ours and two others... it is trying to figure out which of the two elbow, 431B or 431C, goes to which lid ( 2 or 4 bolt lid ).... Then you still have the issue of the filter being a flat panel type vs the cartridge. I have seen a B&S 23HP Intek motor on one of those zero turn rider with the new cartridge filter system at my locak Northern tools retail store and it seems like a much better filter system. There is alot less contact sealing area to go wrong in the cartridge type vs our flat panel type.

For now... im gonna just do with what I have and try to ghetto fix/address the problem before investing all that dollars into a whole new filter system.
 
#13 ·
Yup, Briggs knew there was a problem. but most of these engines crapped out within a year, or 2, and were passing oil like mad.

Briggs always replaced the motor with the new style, with the oval cartridge, and screw on cover, no charge.

3.5 years...no way briggs is touching that one, and rightfully so.
 
#14 ·
For this type of engine and to be marketed as a "ELS (Extended Life Series)" brand.... I would have expected to recieve at least 8~9 years of trouble free service... But since there is a design flaw and they knew it, then the "ELS" is false claim...... I got only 3.5 years of service... I guess I was one of the lucky ones then.... yeah, right, sure....

as a customer...... guess the next time around.... there isnt going to be a B&S mounted in my next tractor.... " rightfully so "....
 
#23 ·
Red

I have 139 hours on my tractor most winter plowing. I use my tractor twice as much in the winter. Its kept in a heated garage so no hard starting.

I bought it in spring of 04 so that is about 34 hours a year with only 10 or so, (total around 40 or so) in the summer dusty conditions. Winter time not much drit and dust to be found.

I have changed the oil and filer 4 or 5 time's and 4 new air filters, plugs, gas filter, etc. I plan to use Mobil 1 for oil but so far only used the briggs 30w because I bought a bunch on sale in 04. I use only the yellow ELS Briggs filters.

The engine still runs ok, not as good as it was but ok. The filter is leaking dirt under the D ring. There is dirt on the intake walls as you could see in the photos I posted in this thread.

If I came to you to have this looked at, what would you tell me to do or as a repair center what would/could you do, so I get the most out of my engine from here on out.

The only reason mine is not in the shape as some of the other smoking ones is because the summer time hours are so low. If seems this would be the time to fix the problem since its not trashed yet. I know I might not get what I should of for hours but I have to do something to make it last close to what it should.

I had two mower's for cutting grass but the other mower I no longer have. So at this point I will be putting more then 10 or 12 hours on in the summer mowing grass.
 
#25 ·
Id have to put my hands on it to say exactly what would fix your exact problem, they all tend to leak a little different, as in not all in the exact same spot. My fix for maximum life without replacing the blower housing, carb elbow, and other parts, would be to pickup some "The right stuff" and put some on the sealing surfaces to build them up. It remains pliable for years and years, and doesnt "bond" to stuff.

I mean, we all know it is a design flaw, the box cover warps from the latch style...dirt bypasses the filter, eats the rings, and you smoke. Brigg's standpoint on the matter is that in 2 years, if it wasnt a problem, then it probably wont be a problem, or it isnt being maintained enough to notice the problem, and 99% of the time they are correct.
 
#24 ·
If you have any piece of equipment you value with an I/C engine, here's some advice. Get an oil analysis.

I usually start on the second change (first one with non factory fill) and monitor. Lots of info there. The silicon reading will clearly indicate the effectiveness of air filtration. Now, an analysis is about $25. I always analyze the oil in my vehicles so I buy in larger quantities and am right around $10 each sample.

The real key to an analysis is to interpret the numbers and take action indicated by the results. There are other forums that can be most helpful in interpretation and knowing the course of action to take.

May your air be clean,

Jack
 
#27 ·
Okay, now I'm worried ! My '06 Husqvarna has the Inkek 24hp engine...motor 445677......type 0476E1..........code 060613YG It takes air filter cartridge # 499486, and pre-cleaner # 273638. I'm going to change the oil and filter for the second time,and also change the air filters for the firt time. Just hit 50 hours. So if I spot any dirt, what can I do about it ? It should be still under the 2 year warranty,since i bought it in Dec. 2006. The dealer I bought it from is out of business.
 
#28 ·
oldtimer,

your engine has a slight revised air cover using bolts holding down the cover vs my setup of a latch down cover. Yours should be a better improvement. Just keep an eye within the wall of the intake snout/elbow to the carberator. If you run through alot off dusty area and if your engine is affected... you will se dust/dirt clinging to the walls of that snout/intake. This will indicate that dust is by-passing your flat panel filter. As in the case of this original post.


If you are having this issue..... Then I would take your tractor to an "Authorized" B&S service shop or even a "MASTER" B&S service shop (which would be even better) and explain to them the issue. They would have a better chance of getting B&S to accept any warranty work, let that be some sort of repair, a retro fit, or even an engine replacement. Forget it if you try to do it yourself as you will have no say so to the matter.

The engines that have the worst case of the dirt ingestion issue are the engines with the one clamp lid system.

Now if your environment is not dusty then you will not see the problem as easly if your engine exhibit any of this design flaw.
 
#31 ·
Hello, all-

I feel bad being new and asking a totally self-interested question but this thread has me worrying already and I haven't even yet taken delivery of my newly purchased Craftsman DYS 4500 (with Briggs & Stratton 24hp V-twin) - I was referred to this thread from an introductory thread of mine in the Craftsman forums.

My unit is brand new so...do I need to worry about this? I've read through this thread twice and despite decent reading comprehension skills I'm still not sure. There are references to two apparent fixed by Briggs - a quick fix (screws first yellow clip) and then a second redesign-type fix (cartridge filter). Not sure yet exactly what I have but are folks buying new machines likely to be safe from this problem?

Thanks in advance from a newbie.
 
#33 ·
No problem asking your question, that's pretty much the main reason this forum exists, to help inform members on anything tractor related, be it a problem like this one, or where to get parts for a 35 year old machine. Your machine being a 2008 has the new filter design, so no worries.
 
#36 ·
I have one of the problem engines, and what I have done until I can sort out how to improve this situation, is smear regular gun grease around both sides of the gasket on the air filter where the square shaped hole meets the carb duct. My thought it that the grease will attract any dust that wants to get through there. So far, so good. I have caught a lot of crap that used to go through that engine.

I am trying to get some kind of advice from Briggs, but so far the seem to know nothing about it! :banghead3
 
#38 ·
Mo,

If you are mechanically inclined and can turn a wrench..... you can rebuild your engine as I did. It wasnt that difficult once I was able to gather good information prior and during the rebuild. The link below is a thread I started in regards to my first rebuild of this engine... you may want to take a look. By the way.... if you do the rebuild yourself... it will cost you approximately 150.00 in parts and misc... plus your labor... If the dealer rebuild your engine, you can guarrantee that they will charge you 8Hrs x their rate.... + parts costs. my guess will be around 750~850.00 depending on locale... and that's only to re-ring the pistons. Ask your dealer to give you a quote for a ring job.

http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=56446

If you want to attempt the rebuild, PM me and we can talk it over and I can give you the low down on what you need to do. If I had to do this again and as always.... second time around will go much much more quickly. So far, I have mowed 6 times since the rebuild and so far so good... NO Smoking.


It is not surprising the treatment you are getting with your "Master" B&S dealer. I got the cold shoulder from Sears and B&S. Right now..... I have a foot in the door with my local "Master" Service dealer... at least he is trying for me... right now it is in my ball court where I need to present him valid information as to exact when I purchased my tractor... (which is Dec '04) and then the decision goes from there.... I got my fingers crossed... I'm gonna try to get up there tomorrow. By the way.... In this thread below, started by Grapeknutz.... we both are trying to see if anyone would listen to our plea to have the engines replace with new engine because of the filter design flaw...

http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=56576



Bottom line is...... when you are outside the 2yrs warranty..... we are floating down river without a paddle.... even when it is all due to their design flaw.....
 
#39 ·
If you want to attempt the rebuild, PM me and we can talk it over and I can give you the low down on what you need to do. If I had to do this again and as always.... second time around will go much much more quickly. So far, I have mowed 6 times since the rebuild and so far so good... NO Smoking.
I may have to (gasp) buy some tools :cool:, but I'm not totally useless mechanically. With some guidance, I could probably muddle through. Plus, my father-in-law is very handy. He could probably do it blindfolded. So I have resources. Your pictures are good too.
 
#41 ·
#43 ·
hello

I have a B&S 26HP ELS725 engine which I just bought to put in my simplicity tractor to replace an old 16HP I/C B&S. The bolt holes line up for mounting on frame but the shaft size is not the same, therefore I can not use the old pulley assembly that came with the engine. Does anyone know where I can buy a pulley assembly for these vertical shaft engines to fit. I noticed you have the same engine. Do you have the part number for the pulley assembly that mounts to the shaft and if all possible I will purchase it from Craftsman lawn mowers. Not sure if it will have the same size pulleys and/or dimensions but it is worth a start. I hope I dont have the air cleaner problems that you guys had.

thanks, MR
 
#44 ·
:Welcome1: MR!

I think you may want to start a new thread in the small engine forum with this question. You may get an answer a little quicker.

Click here, and then choose "New Thread".

Good luck!
 
#45 ·
Hi, I'm glad I found this forum. Found it while searching for parts for a rebuild I'm doing on a Craftsman DYT4000 purchased in 2004 with 250 hours on it. I also did a rebuild on the same exact model with 370 hours on it two weeks ago that was purchased almost at the same time. This was my first full rebuild of a Briggs and Stratton. Both were 31P777 0348 E1 18.5 HP Extended Life Series AVS engines. A friend of my dad had it sitting in his barn because he said it ran extremely fast and thought it was the governor and said it smoked. I could tell since the hood was black near the exhaust. He didn't want to go through the hassle of fixing it and bought a John Deere with a different engine and gave the broken one to my dad who has the same exact mower, DYT4000, he purchased in 2005 with 80 hours.

When tearing down both engines I noticed a lot of dirt stuck on the inside of the intake walls. I had told my dad how I didn't like the fact that the filter cover didn't seem to close very tightly against the seal right after he purchased it. It seams I was right. The tractor with 370 hours had a broken throttle shaft that caused damage to the piston and head surface when it entered the combustion chamber. A new piston had to be purchased because the rings were pinched and wouldn't come out. I'm guessing the cause may have been from the air filter not sealing correctly and letting dirt enter the carburetor and corroding the shaft. After checking for other damage and wear I felt I could have a successful rebuild. I cleaned all the parts and removed all the carbon buildup, spent $160 on all the new parts including a new carb, honed the cylinder, installed all new seals, lapped the valves and adjusted them and finally got the engine running like new.

The second tractor with 250 hours, it actually belonged to the brother of the owner of the tractor above, said he thought he had the same problem and gave it to my dad for free. He's a trucker and didn't have time to fix it. The damage was caused because the screws had come loose on the throttle shaft and they also entered the combustion chamber and caused damage to the head and piston. There was also a lot of build up inside the intake and head from dust getting past the filter. The dirt inside the head and intake was at least a 1/16" thick. I talked to a friend of mine who's a tractor mechanic and he said it was typical for single cylinder engines to have the throttle screws come loose. He said it was a real problem on Tecumsehs and Case engines. To fix the problem he said you could carefully peen the screws with a punch while supporting the heads to ensure the shaft isn't damaged. I'm not sure how well thread locker on the screws will work.

Sorry for such a long post, I'll get to the topic now of this thread. The filter seems to be a problem on all these engines I've looked at. I figured out that if you use some duct tape (1/8 inch thick, approximately 10-15 layers) to add to the area on the cover the latch hooks onto, you can get a tight fit. I think this only works on the single cylinder models with the latches and if you don't care what it looks like. I don't think it will put too much stress on the latch supports to cause them to break but I'll see what happens over time. Here are the pictures of what I did.
 

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#46 ·
i have the same problem with a 26 els B&S engine. but mine did make 290 hours before it started consuming oil at the rate of one half quart per hour of operation also lost power by about 50%. i think it was a bad air filtration design from B&S. no one will admit fault, but i wonder why did they change the filter system completely on the newer models.
 
#47 ·
Hi spuds, :MTF_wel2:
Sorry to hear you had the same problem, I bet a lot of people did. It is a poor design and even if you get it to not let contaminants get by you still end up dumping a bit of debris down the carb intake when you remove the filter no matter how well you cleaned around it before. My old tractor had a traditional air filter and I had no problems with that filter and it required less maintenance. I'm sure Brigg's intentions were good but this is not a good filter system.
 
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