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post #1 of 22 Old 07-19-2019, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
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8N will not move and lost all hydraulics

Well I did it. I broke my 8N. I was moving dirt with the back blade and heard a "bang". Tractor goes into any gear but will not move. I also lost all hydraulics. I know I'll have to split her in half again, for the repair. But I am not sure what to look for. If my feeble memory is working, there is a shaft behind the clutch that would be a good bet is broken. Can you see anything by lifting the shifting plate? Also, again relying on my memory, My Dad told me (50+ years ago), there is a way to tell where the problem might by lifting and turning the rear tires. I am open for any suggestions and help. I guess I am just asking where should I start. I will have to have my boy do most of the work as "old Arthur" is getting bad in the hands and I want to have my ducks in order before I get him out here working. Thanks Guys (and Girls)
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post #2 of 22 Old 07-19-2019, 10:33 PM
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Re: 8N will not move and lost all hydraulics

As I recall from my dad's 8n, there are 2 covers. One for the trans the other under the seat with the rear lift arms coming out of it. Before doing any splitting I'd pull the trans cover first as it is accessible and see what you can see. If that doesn't show anything, I think I recall my dad pulling the side cover off the rear end case to look inside the rear end housing. It is the round cover, where the dip stick is I think. As it was less of a pain than the lift's top cover.

But alas, it sounds like you have a major failure in that gear train/hydraulic system. (Sorry, this was 55 years ago and memory is faded some).

Is it worth it? For an 8N, I'd say absolutely!! Oh, by the way, I was once that boy doing the knuckle busting work for my dad who lost his eyesight. I wouldn't trade the experience for anything in the world. It has paid me back a thousand times over the next 45 years. I'll say a little "thanks dad" here.

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post #3 of 22 Old 07-20-2019, 09:18 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 8N will not move and lost all hydraulics

When it ever quits raining, I'll take off a few covers and have a look. Anything exciting, I'll try to take a pic or 2. I might get my phone and PC both working right at the same time.
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post #4 of 22 Old 07-20-2019, 07:50 PM
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Re: 8N will not move and lost all hydraulics

Will it drop in any gear, without depressing the clutch pedal..?? If it will, I'd have to guess either the center got torn out of the clutch disc, or the input shaft into the transmission snapped.
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post #5 of 22 Old 07-20-2019, 08:00 PM
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Re: 8N will not move and lost all hydraulics

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ54 View Post
Will it drop in any gear, without depressing the clutch pedal..?? If it will, I'd have to guess either the center got torn out of the clutch disc, or the input shaft into the transmission snapped.
I second the clutch, you would REALLY have to be treating it bad to break the input shaft but it can be done just highly unlikely.




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post #6 of 22 Old 07-21-2019, 10:48 AM
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Re: 8N will not move and lost all hydraulics

Not to chastise the poster, or any others that may come here, looking for answers, it helps a lot to diagnose a problem, getting as Paul Harvey used to say, "The rest of the story." No doubt it took a lot of, sudden shock load torque to cause the problem in this case.

Such as, while moving a blade full of dirt, did the operator snag a stump, or rock causing sudden stoppage, possibly wheel spinning, the gaining enough traction to go again, enough wheel weights, so as not to spin, placing more torque to the drive train, than it was designed for, etc., etc. Basically, placing a lot of torque to the weakest link in the drive train. Normally with wheel hopping when spinning will snap an axle. Anything ahead of the axle breaking in the drive train, has more than likely been stressed more than several times, whether intentional, or unintentional. A good "for instance" would be, mowing with a bush hog, and hitting something solid like a stump, with no protection to the drive train like a slip clutch. At that particular time, there may not have seemed to be any apparent damage, but could be the cause of a major problem later.
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post #7 of 22 Old 07-24-2019, 11:58 AM
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Re: 8N will not move and lost all hydraulics

I'm with DJ54;
Something had to happen to cause the issue.
However, if an 8-N or 9-N or 2-N won't move and the 3-point won't go up, something snapped ahead of the transmission.

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post #8 of 22 Old 08-08-2019, 03:36 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 8N will not move and lost all hydraulics

UPDATE: Rain stopped for a few days. I got the old girl in the garage and pulled of the hydraulic cover. Low and behold, I could not just brake one thing, I had to break two. Broke the shaft and also the spline. Next thing I have to do is pull the shift cover and see how the spline attaches in front. I don't know if I have to split her yet, just in the "figuring out" stage. Then I get to hunt for parts. I have a 1950 in the weeds. I am hoping the parts are there and in good shape. Backing up with the blade full of wet "road base" gravel was too much for "Josephine" and she let me know it. Any input is more than welcome. Just keep plugging away.
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post #9 of 22 Old 08-08-2019, 07:07 PM
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Re: 8N will not move and lost all hydraulics

Oh yeah, you'll have to split it. That shaft is the main shaft of the transmission. There was some SERIOUS abuse to break that shaft.




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post #10 of 22 Old 08-08-2019, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 8N will not move and lost all hydraulics

Looked at the shaft and you can see where it was cracked for a while. I do not want to just trade transmissions with my parts tractor as my parts 8N was bought new in 1951 (It's a 1950) by my Dad. When the '50 was new, it kept slipping out of 1st when any load was on it. Because of this, I would like to repair the transmission in the '49. I am the 4th owner of "Josephine", the 49, (Joe W. down the road bought it new) and it has done A LOT of work before I got it. When I was a boy, I drove it many miles helping Joe. It was his only tractor for many years. I hope I just don't have another "parts" tractor.

OK, I'm like a lost boy now. I know I need to split the tractor and drop out the transmission. Hoping I can rob enough parts from the '50 to fix it. First thing I need would be a transmission schematic. I will try to find one but, if anyone has one let me know. It will be a few days before I get the transmission dripped and on the bench. Also I worked on a few transmissions but never an 8N, so ANY constructive advice will help. I am also worried about something between the flywheel and the transmission. The tractor will start and you can put it in any gear without the clutch depressed. I guess I will find out when I get it on the bench. Just hope I can get her fixed. I miss my 8N.
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post #11 of 22 Old 08-08-2019, 09:42 PM
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Re: 8N will not move and lost all hydraulics

Here's a link to the New Holland online parts store, already set to the transmission section. https://partstore.agriculture.newhol...mr58548ag12542 It shows exploded views of different function groups of the transmission. Not the best, but, better than nothing. Probably best to find you a manual. An I&T would probably be the least expensive. They have a lot to be desired, but should give you torque specs.

Depending on how big of a hurry you are to get a manual, I've found great deals on I&T manuals on ebay.
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post #12 of 22 Old 08-09-2019, 07:25 PM
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Re: 8N will not move and lost all hydraulics

Lots of manuals available for the N series tractor, even the Ford Shop Service manual for this tractor is available @ several places. These are simple transmissions easy to work on, pay attention as you rebuild it and you should have no problems. Remember these tractors were designed for horse farmers to work on.




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post #13 of 22 Old 08-09-2019, 08:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 8N will not move and lost all hydraulics

I guess I'm an old horse farmer (LOL). Found an I&T manual download and got that (I love freebees). Just printed out the transmission part. Son came out and did a little bit today, I just keep plugging along. Hope you guys like all kinds of pictures.
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post #14 of 22 Old 08-10-2019, 07:00 PM
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Re: 8N will not move and lost all hydraulics

We are picture addicts, keep em' comin.




Social media is a cesspool of questionable human behavior.

Even duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound!

The biggest lie I tell myself is "I don't need to write that down, I'll remember it."

Logic is most useful. If only more humans would learn it and embrace it.
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post #15 of 22 Old 08-12-2019, 05:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 8N will not move and lost all hydraulics

Well, Transmission is out and apart. I need to find three parts. The main shaft, Connecting tube and the front pilot bearing. Yep, when taking apart, the front pilot bearing was "really, really" sloppy. I don't know if this was the cause of everything, but it didn't help. I would like just to order the parts instead of taking the other tractor apart. Anyone know where to get the parts at a good price, please let me know. And thanks. I even threw in my reference pictures. Sorry I didn't put them in order.
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