CS2510 Backhoe - MyTractorForum.com - The Friendliest Tractor Forum and Best Place for Tractor Information
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 24 Old 06-21-2018, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
MTF Junior Poster
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 29
CS2510 Backhoe

I'm planning on calling the dealer to schedule a 50 hour service and have them address the FEL hydraulic lines that the F/R pedals are gouging/chafing badly, I'm also having an issue where the bucket on the BH drops slowly over time while the machine is parked, and the teeth end up scraping down the arm of the BH as the bucket slowly collapses.

Is this normal or should hydraulic attachments hold their position indefinitely while the tractor is powered down? When you store the tractor with the BH attached, do you normally curl the bucket all the way up and tuck it tight to the arm, or do you store it open a bit and lowered?
jontheram is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 Old 06-21-2018, 02:08 PM
9K+ Poster
 
JDFANATIC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Central Connecticut
Posts: 12,151
Barn
Re: CS2510 Backhoe

Jon, the hydraulics on your machine (and most SCUTs) will have the booms, attachments, loader etc drop down over time. The question always is, is it at a greater rate than should be expected? We did spend a day with your model: 2017 Kioti CS2510 TLB Review but not enough time to witness the rate of droop. I'd have a conversation with your dealer about expectations. Let us know how you make out.

Cheers

JDFANATIC
JD2210, loaded tires, 62C MMM, 210 Loader, 47" Snowblower, York Rake, PTO Spreader, Heated Cab, JD Plug Aerator, FIMCO Sprayer, Wheel Spacers, FEMCO Folding ROPS, JD Cart, Stihl MS170 and HT101, Wallenstein BX32 PTO Chipper

JDFANATIC is offline  
post #3 of 24 Old 06-21-2018, 04:24 PM
Proud Member of the 1K Club

 
Gary in NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hillbilly NJ
Posts: 1,466
Re: CS2510 Backhoe

When I first received my machine the stabilizer legs would self retract when the BH was disconnected from the tractor. This would usually happen during an overnight. I though it was odd so I had the dealer review the hydraulic lines. Sure enough, there was a bad o-ring up near the control blocks. The hydraulic system didn't leak, but it take in air. Since repaired, the BH can be disconnected from the tractor for months at a time and the stabilizer legs don't move at all. I keep the boom arm in the lock, so I don't know if that relaxes. Also, I always rest the bucket on a 6x6x6 block of wood before shutting down or disconnecting the system.

So I'm claiming no movement. With that said, my MMM will relax after a few days, requiring me to raise it up to move the tractor out of the shed.

It is possible that your hydraulic lines, since compromised, aren't leaking, but are allowing air into the system. Once the system pressurizes the air is purged.

Gary
Kioti CS2410 with FEL, BH, 60" MMM, Snow Blower, Carry All
Gary in NJ is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 24 Old 06-22-2018, 02:19 AM
20,000 Posts & Climbing
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sault Ste Marie, Ontario
Posts: 21,006
Re: CS2510 Backhoe

There are no perfect cylinder seals. Some may be better than others, but all will eventually succumb to gravity.

If it leaks down over a period of a few days, consider it to be normal. Hydraulically raised implements should always be grounded (lowered to the ground) for safety when the tractor is out of service anyway.

Bob

Click for The Hydraulics Forum!

Sometimes you get on a roll, sometimes the roll gets on you.

In Service
MF GC2310, Husqvarna YTH20B42T

Down for Repairs
MF1655 w/ FEL, MF1655, MF12H, MF8H, MF7H
Spending too much time on MTF to work on my toys.
TUDOR is offline  
post #5 of 24 Old 06-26-2018, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
MTF Junior Poster
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 29
Re: CS2510 Backhoe

Thanks everyone for the input.

JD: If the bucket is left curled overnight, it will have dropped by morning to the point the teeth are resting on the arm of the backhoe. I read your review early on, it was very helpful. I remember your review said the 60" MMM is a drive over, however I believe the dealer told me it is not, so I checked their site and it seems only the MMM for the CK series is a drive over. I find many of the points of your review spot-on. Compared to my old Bolens FEL, and an early BX series TLB, I found the Kioti to feel much more stable. I dug a couple hundred feet of drain trenches through wet clay/shale with a 16" bucket on the BH and it made quick work of it. It'd drag the tractor if I tried to take too big of a first bite through the sod, but that was easy to adjust for, and the controls were snappy and accurate. I tried using the "float" feature of the FEL to scoop #4 stone off grass and it didn't work too well for me, also found the bucket was wide enough that it was hard to get an eye on the side of it to judge the angle of the front edge.

Gary and Tudor: You both seem to be getting at the same point; to prop the bucket on something when in storage. I'll have to play with it some, but it seems if you have the boom arm in the lock, it can't lower enough to get the bucket to the ground (or even 6" off the ground if you curl the bucket so the teeth are pointing parallel to the ground), but I'll have to see what it can do.

It goes to the dealer tomorrow for 50 hr service and to address the front hydraulic lines getting gouged/chaffed by the frame/forward drive pedal, as well as a a non-functioning parking brake indicator light. I might discuss with the dealer the bucket drop..but I don't think I want to bother them hunting for causes when it sounds like it isn't a major issue presently.

Thanks again for everyone's input.
jontheram is offline  
post #6 of 24 Old 06-26-2018, 04:49 PM
Kioti SCUT
 
3 Legged Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 330
Barn
Re: CS2510 Backhoe

Quote:
Originally Posted by jontheram View Post
Thanks everyone for the input.

I tried using the "float" feature of the FEL to scoop #4 stone off grass and it didn't work too well for me, also found the bucket was wide enough that it was hard to get an eye on the side of it to judge the angle of the front edge.

Thanks again for everyone's input.
I have a CS2210 with FEL and found the same problems with the loader. I added some Edge Tamers (see photo) to the front edge and found it much easier to pick up crushed stone or mulch with float. One of them still has the Edge Extender (mini-fork) attached, which is nice but not necessary for your task.

I also built my own bucket level indicator by attaching one end of an orange driveway snow marker to the bucket pivot point with a rotating bracket, and ran the other end through a short PVC conduit tube taped to the loader arm. With the bucket level on a flat surface - I put some colored tape on the rod at the top edge of the tube. Now when the tape and tube line up, the bucket is level.

I can take a photo of the indicator, or you can find other examples in the forum. Cal
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ETon.JPG
Views:	98
Size:	125.7 KB
ID:	2320251  

2017 Kioti CS2210 SCUT w/FEL (the 3 Legged Dog)
2019 PJ model UK142 T/A 14' utility trailer
Husqvarna YTH2348 yard tractor/mower
MTD Yard Machines E644E snowblower
Rigid RD8000 8k/10k generator
3 Legged Dog is offline  
post #7 of 24 Old 06-28-2018, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
MTF Junior Poster
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 29
Re: CS2510 Backhoe

Thanks Cal. I figured there must be a bunch of homebrew loader level indicators on the forum here. You described it well enough that I can picture exactly your set up. I like the simplicity of it, could probably even cut away portions of top of the PVC so it's more like a sight glass and create marks along the sides to indicate set degrees of tilt for the tape to line up with. I'm on hills so I'll almost never be looking for actual level.

As far as those edge tamers, might be something I look into. Have you used them to push snow at all, or does the float work well enough on asphalt that they aren't necessary? The extenders I could potentially get a lot of use out of, are the long and sturdy enough to actually handle a pallet with a few hundred pounds, or is more a platform for carrying around logs and the like?
jontheram is offline  
post #8 of 24 Old 06-28-2018, 02:36 PM
Kioti SCUT
 
3 Legged Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 330
Barn
Re: CS2510 Backhoe

I took a couple of quick photos of the bucket level indicator. You can see that for the pivot point I cut the pointed end off the driveway marker so that it was square, and then attached it to a copper electrical lug. I then bolted that to a hanger bracket that electricians use to hang rod from steel beams. I used the type of nut that has the inner white ring so that it would remain in place without actually being too tight. I found all the parts in the electrical section at Lowes. It was a little off center, so I used a quarter to level it out.

The Edge Tamers worked great with float to clear snow off my driveway, but then I found it easier to just use the rear blade, so I seldom use the bucket for snow unless its a pile of snow. I did have to cut off the rear "rattle tooth" off the Tamers to get them over my bolt-on cutting edge. i posted the instruction for that in the forum.

The Edge Extenders can handle 300 lbs each (600 lbs total), but they're only 12 inches long so it would have a limited use with pallets. They work very well with logs, landscape timbers, or moving tractor attachments.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	BL1.JPG
Views:	92
Size:	116.3 KB
ID:	2320575   Click image for larger version

Name:	BL2.JPG
Views:	85
Size:	119.4 KB
ID:	2320577  

2017 Kioti CS2210 SCUT w/FEL (the 3 Legged Dog)
2019 PJ model UK142 T/A 14' utility trailer
Husqvarna YTH2348 yard tractor/mower
MTD Yard Machines E644E snowblower
Rigid RD8000 8k/10k generator
3 Legged Dog is offline  
post #9 of 24 Old 06-28-2018, 02:40 PM
20,000 Posts & Climbing
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sault Ste Marie, Ontario
Posts: 21,006
Re: CS2510 Backhoe

The CS2510 suffers the same problem as all the rest of the SCUTs. Small rear tires supporting an 800 lb backhoe plus offsetting weight and half the weight of the tractor, total, about 1900 lb. While the tires will support that weight, they will take a set when parked for extended periods of time and the backhoe should be freed to put the bucket on the ground or some other solid support to reduce the weight.

I generally use the bucket curl rods as guides for bucket level. Focusing your attention on a bucket level indicator on one side of the bucket doesn't tell you what the other edge of the bucket is doing to that part of your landscape features that you don't really want to damage.

When clearing snow from pavement, I plant the cutting edge down hard to clear down to the asphalt. I've never used the float position for snow removal. After 40 years, I haven't seen any damage to the asphalt using this practice. Bear in mind that in this neck of the woods, the asphalt is usually frozen rock hard during snow season. Your mileage may vary.

Bob

Click for The Hydraulics Forum!

Sometimes you get on a roll, sometimes the roll gets on you.

In Service
MF GC2310, Husqvarna YTH20B42T

Down for Repairs
MF1655 w/ FEL, MF1655, MF12H, MF8H, MF7H
Spending too much time on MTF to work on my toys.
TUDOR is offline  
post #10 of 24 Old 09-06-2018, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
MTF Junior Poster
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 29
Re: CS2510 Backhoe

Just wanted to update my experience so far, and also I have one more request for help.

My experience with the dealer was horrendous. They took the tractor for over 3 weeks before even starting to work on it (is this normal for tractor service, for them to require it to be on their lot before they will even put it in line to get worked on?).

This is the dealer that sold the tractor, but I am the 2nd owner. Instead of having them fix the main issue (the chaffed hydraulic lines) and leave it at that, I decided to try and do right by them and also have them do the 50 hr service (which I am capable of handling myself), to try and establish a good relationship with them. They ended up charging me $740 (including pickup/delivery) for the 50 hour service and to fix for the hydraulic line...which their "fix" was... Zip tying the damaged lines off to the side of the pedals where they wouldn't rub further.

The service manager said he spoke to the owner and the owner said "this wasn't a warranty issue." No ####! (I thought but didn't say) Why would Kioti pay you to fix something you installed wrong? So instead they tried to charge me. I calmly explained I was quoted $300 for the 50 hour service and 84 for pick up and delivery and asked them to refund the rest. They refused, I said I would have to initiate a dispute with my CC company and the service manager said "good luck, you ain't seein the money" and hung up.

Anyways, CC company sided with me and I got the difference back from beyond what I was quoted.

However, my hoses are still pretty beat and I should probably post pictures so the hydraulics experts can tell me if this might be an issue down the road. From what I can tell, the rubber is chafed down to what looks like SS braiding, but the braiding itself looks relatively unharmed.

My experience with the tractor, once I finally got it back, continued to be great. Was able to get back to work putting in a 20'x40' paver patio, and then took the backhoe off and have been using it for lots of mowing. It is a wonderful mower; great cut, and takes me about 2/3 of the time it used to. Next up is 4' sub-frost trench to run some water lines out to the fields.

Now the issue...getting the back hoe back on. I had it lined up nearly perfect, but it was skewed just enough that one of the upper hooks wouldn't flip over fully and sit down so the pin could be placed through it. I tried for a while using the hydraulics to shift the hoe and trying to line the tractor up better, but they don't give you much room to work with in that bracket! I eventually gave up as frustration was getting the better of me and I didn't want to get careless.

Anyone have any tips? I think I'll build a dolly for it, and while this will make it easier to position, I think it'll still be significant trial and error moving the dolly, raising the riggers, checking the fit, lowering the riggers, moving the dolly, etc etc. So anyone with the CS series have any experience they can share?

It looks like only the CS has this style of attachment to the sub-frame?

Last edited by jontheram; 09-06-2018 at 03:16 PM.
jontheram is offline  
post #11 of 24 Old 09-07-2018, 01:06 PM
Proud Member of the 1K Club

 
Gary in NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hillbilly NJ
Posts: 1,466
Re: CS2510 Backhoe

I'm glad that you won the battle with the credit card company, but it sucks that you had to take it to that point. At least you know the type of people at that dealer and know not to go back.

Here's how I get the backhoe back on. I raise and lower the BH using the stabilizer legs. This gets the height correct. To get the angle correct you need to use the bucket. With the bucket on the ground you curl/uncurl the bucket to achieve the correct angle. Once in the correct position you can back the tractor into the BH and lower the BH into position. Then the locks easily flip into position.

Gary
Kioti CS2410 with FEL, BH, 60" MMM, Snow Blower, Carry All
Gary in NJ is offline  
post #12 of 24 Old 09-19-2018, 05:00 PM Thread Starter
MTF Junior Poster
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 29
Re: CS2510 Backhoe

Hey Gary, thanks for sharing your experience. I was able to get the up/down and tilt easily enough, for me the trouble was centering the BH brackets into the subframe brackets.

I went out with some more patience and took my time and was able to get it just so. What worked for me was getting the hydraulic hoses hooked into the center so I could see both brackets while backing up. Also realized on the lower bracket, there's a bolt that protrudes into the slot where the BH "male" hook is supposed to go. It narrows the clearance so that I only have about 1/8" to squeeze it in, other wise the male bracket on the BH hits it and won't go in far enough, preventing the whole thing from proper alignment. That seems to be the biggest issue preventing this from going a lot smoother.

I'll have to look at it next time the BH is off and see if I can flip it around so the hex head is inside of the bracket, and the longer threads+nut is outside of the bracket, which would give me more room to work with.
jontheram is offline  
post #13 of 24 Old 09-29-2018, 09:35 AM
MTF Junior Poster
 
kingofbytes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NH
Posts: 27
Re: CS2510 Backhoe

@jontheram, what dealer was this? I want to make sure I don't give them my business.
kingofbytes is offline  
post #14 of 24 Old 10-18-2018, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
MTF Junior Poster
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 29
Re: CS2510 Backhoe

Hi @kingofbytes, sorry for the late reply, I was wrestling whether to mention the dealer by name or not. However, in the end, I firmly believe my experience is typical of this dealer and that I even went above and beyond to try and make things sweet for them rather than just get warranty service (and have them fix their botched loader install).

I looked at their reviews this morning, and seems there are many people recently who have had very similar issues with their service. Seems I actually got lucky with my 3+ week turnaround, other people mentioning waiting months. One person also specifically mentions their hoses getting destroyed because of improper routing. The dealer is Emerich's. They have several locations in upstate NY, the Kioti dealer that I dealt with is the location in Melrose, NY.

Anyways, got the backhoe off again after trenching about 50' @ 4' depth to run some water lines out to fields for frost-proof hydrants. Worked real well, 4' was a manageable depth for the backhoe and was able to get a hang of working through shale/rock pretty quickly, but any deeper, at least in my area, would be too much rock for it too handle.

Going to attempt attaching a picture of the backhoe mount with the bolt(edit for clarity: should be bolt(s), there are 2, stacked vertically between the upper and lower mounting brackets on each side) I referenced previously. Didn't see any reason why I couldn't just flip the bolt around so the hex head was on the inside of the mount and the longer threaded end and nut end were on the outside. Should give me a bit more wiggle room to get the BH frame in there in the future.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	MVIMG_20181012_172723.jpg
Views:	65
Size:	7.80 MB
ID:	2341307   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20181012_172717.jpg
Views:	63
Size:	4.48 MB
ID:	2341309  

Last edited by jontheram; 10-18-2018 at 10:20 AM.
jontheram is offline  
post #15 of 24 Old 10-18-2018, 10:13 AM
MTF Junior Poster
 
kingofbytes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NH
Posts: 27
Re: CS2510 Backhoe

@jontheram, Thanks - I haven't had good experiences with sales at some of the Kioti dealers near me. (I'm in NH). If they're not good at SELLING me a tractor, imagine how they'll be SERVICING the tractor. I appreciate you sharing your story!
kingofbytes is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MyTractorForum.com - The Friendliest Tractor Forum and Best Place for Tractor Information forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome