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post #31 of 69 Old 01-11-2018, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by RustyRedneck View Post
The idea is not to start a business just for the sake of starting a business. The idea is to start a go-kart track and last time I checked that can't be mailed out or done over the internet. I didn't say it would be easy or it was a shoe in. I've said many times in this thread that I'd need investors or someone to bank roll the idea. There are no businesses around here like this to buy and improve. The closest one is 90 miles away.

What kinds of businesses have you started/owned? Are you still in business?
Don't get offended. Like I said not trying to bust anybody's bubble. I say go for it if it's a possibility. It's just that from most people it's not a possibility because of the funding.
From your first post I misunderstood and thought you wanted to start a business just so you could be self-employed and running your own business. I did not realize until now that you were not interested in starting a business just for the sake of having your own business that you specifically like and would like to own and be involved in a go-kart place.
It would be super neat and fun to do but unless it became quite profitable it probably wouldn't be worth the investment and the time involved for most people.
The businesses I have started are limousine/ party bus service and a mower repair shop.
I started my limo company over 20 years ago and my mower shop in 2011.
Both are still in business.
Banks are absolutely terrible to deal with to borrow money. It was actually a little easier to finance a limo because at least it was a vehicle. I just had to have the extra because they don't want to give you any more for the vehicle being a limousine they just kind of see that it's a Lincoln and that's all I care about but least I could get a loan for them. They're much tighter when it's an equipment loan or just a business loan. Now with the new way of doing business with the internet and everyone trying to offer business startup and funding it's mostly just a scam or a joke. Most of them either want your future credit card sales but you have to have big sales to show them up front or they require a minimum of two years in business making $75,000 a year. My thought is if I'm making $75,000 a year I really don't need a loan.
All the online offers talk a good game but nobody really wants to actually give you any money and if they do their terms will be so bad that you will pay them three times more than you borrow or you will never get it paid off.
Some people luck out and inherit a business or inherit a big chunk of cash so they can go out and buy an established business or something. I always thought I would like to have one of the self service car washes. As I can maintain all the equipment and save a lot of money over what the average owners do but you don't find those things in decent parts of town for under 250000 on up.
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post #32 of 69 Old 01-11-2018, 06:23 PM
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Re: Need some advice about starting a small business

If I were to jump into such a deal, I would consider adding an arcade to it as well. I have thought about just a stand-alone arcade in my neck of the woods here, and I think there would be a decent demand for it. I have 5 kids, and they have *always* loved going to those places. Of course I considered them to be a money-pit, so I guess that's a good enough reason to own one...

The best businesses that ever existed were started by people just like you, who had a vision and a dream, and most of all the desire and intestinal fortitude to dive in where others are afraid to go. I was a mere 25 year old "kid" when I opened up an automotive repair business in my home town. It was a huge success, even if I do say so myself, and I owned and operated it for 18 years. I had several people tell me "our town doesn't need another repair place" or "you can't ...XXX" but I just blazed on, and it was wonderful. I started fixing up the building on January 1st and by January 20th I had 3 weeks worth of work scheduled and I hadn't even opened yet.

If you *WANT* to open a go-kart track, then *YOU* are the best one to make the decision. The absolute hardest thing is pulling the trigger, but if you don't, it won't happen, period. A good old friend of mine took the plunge and opened a grocery store in his town, mostly as a side-job and hoping to fill a need. 12 years later he owned 14 stores, and everybody still thought "It will never work". OK....
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post #33 of 69 Old 01-11-2018, 08:12 PM
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Re: Need some advice about starting a small business

Stickk track racing and the arcade games and batting cages that were mentioned are all great ideas that tend to go together over the years. You might be able to really brainstorm and come up with something else that really hasn't been done or isn't that common that could really create a draw for you. The biggest issue I see though is being able to do it. Even the best plans and best ideas aren't possible if you can't come up with a place that you can work out a deal to get access to until you can make some money. I guess that's why everyone always says to start a business you need a business plan which I always have said is a bunch of bull. That's like classroom instruction vs really taking someone out in the field and give them on the job training and showing them how to do something. A business plan is just what you submit to appease people. I guess because all of my thought process and overcoming all the hurdles that I can see up front are just a business plan it's always just been a mental business plan for me because I'm a very analytical person.
Want to get a place like this in operation it's all about improving it and deciding what people really like and what make them come back more. We had one open up a three or four years ago in this area after a fairly long dry spell in the area. They got a lot of business at 1st and they still get a lot of first-time customers but hardly anyone actually talks about being impressed with the place and it's really not as fun as it could be so many people don't bother to go back or go often.
You definitely want to market having birthdays and kid's birthdays in a place like that. That's where a lot of people really lose a lot of business.
And I can't think of anything off the top of my head but if you put your mind to it you can probably really think of a couple of really neat things that maybe have not been tied to an arcade or slick track racing in the past that would be really neat and draw people in.
All the rage right now and this part of the country are the Escape rooms. They get a good deal of money for them to for the 55 or 60 minutes that's your in there.
I'm too cheap because the initial upfront is going to be like 40 plus dollars maybe 60. The arcades are smarter because they draw you in for a mere 12 to $20 and by the time you've left you probably spent 50 plus.
My favorite one was a two-story that got tore down after they went out of business. I think the timing just wasn't right in the smaller town they were in and they really didn't advertise properly. Had they have made it 8 or 10 more years they would have had a plethora of business. They did not have any go-karts but they had lots of arcade games and they had outside maybe batting cages but they definitely had some round bumper pedal paddle boats for warm weather. That was really neat.
All the new ones seem to have arcade games, rooms where you can sit in and play Xbox games on giant screens or wall projections, and laser tag. They often have some play or Romper Room slide things for the younger kids to. And I think a climbing wall might not be a bad idea
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post #34 of 69 Old 01-12-2018, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Need some advice about starting a small business

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Originally Posted by TobyU View Post
Don't get offended. Like I said not trying to bust anybody's bubble. I say go for it if it's a possibility. It's just that from most people it's not a possibility because of the funding.
From your first post I misunderstood and thought you wanted to start a business just so you could be self-employed and running your own business. I did not realize until now that you were not interested in starting a business just for the sake of having your own business that you specifically like and would like to own and be involved in a go-kart place.
It would be super neat and fun to do but unless it became quite profitable it probably wouldn't be worth the investment and the time involved for most people.
The businesses I have started are limousine/ party bus service and a mower repair shop.
I started my limo company over 20 years ago and my mower shop in 2011.
Both are still in business.
Banks are absolutely terrible to deal with to borrow money. It was actually a little easier to finance a limo because at least it was a vehicle. I just had to have the extra because they don't want to give you any more for the vehicle being a limousine they just kind of see that it's a Lincoln and that's all I care about but least I could get a loan for them. They're much tighter when it's an equipment loan or just a business loan. Now with the new way of doing business with the internet and everyone trying to offer business startup and funding it's mostly just a scam or a joke. Most of them either want your future credit card sales but you have to have big sales to show them up front or they require a minimum of two years in business making $75,000 a year. My thought is if I'm making $75,000 a year I really don't need a loan.
All the online offers talk a good game but nobody really wants to actually give you any money and if they do their terms will be so bad that you will pay them three times more than you borrow or you will never get it paid off.
Some people luck out and inherit a business or inherit a big chunk of cash so they can go out and buy an established business or something. I always thought I would like to have one of the self service car washes. As I can maintain all the equipment and save a lot of money over what the average owners do but you don't find those things in decent parts of town for under 250000 on up.
I wasn't offended. Just stating facts. That's great that your businesses are still in operation. I agree the start up companies sound great but, they don't seem to fit my situation.

What can you do with a hopeless addiction on a limited budget in a small area? Get a bunch of garden tractors and hope the city doesn't find out.
Brands I have:Cub Cadet, John Deere, Allis Chalmers, Minneapolis Moline, Case, Ford, Simplicity, Massey Ferguson, Wheel Horse, Panzer, Montgomery Wards, David Bradley, Sears, Bolens, Craftsman, MTD, Snapper, Roof, Springfield, Green Midget, Gemini, Lawnboy, Ariens, Coast to Coast and Big Mow.
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post #35 of 69 Old 01-12-2018, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Need some advice about starting a small business

The first time I was thinking about starting up something like this I had considered dong a paintball course as well. I talked to a guy in Minnesota looking to expand his operation into other towns but was having trouble finding locations. Maybe he'd be willing to handle that half. Could be a possibility. If I could find a lot near the city limits I could start out with an off road course and dirt track and if enough money was made during the warmer months, put a up a building for a flat track. For the off road stuff, I could build a couple trails and just sell a day pass to come ride with your own quad. Then the most expensive thing would again be insurance. I know a couple guys that race quads and are always trying to find a place to test. Not much around here for go-kart racers but maybe a couple that would be interested in testing on a banked oval. Then the rental karts besides, paintball, and a coin up pressure washer or two for the guys with quads that like them to look nice. Winter could bring the snowmobiles out to the oval or the trails. Lots of possibilities. Thanks for the tips guys!

What can you do with a hopeless addiction on a limited budget in a small area? Get a bunch of garden tractors and hope the city doesn't find out.
Brands I have:Cub Cadet, John Deere, Allis Chalmers, Minneapolis Moline, Case, Ford, Simplicity, Massey Ferguson, Wheel Horse, Panzer, Montgomery Wards, David Bradley, Sears, Bolens, Craftsman, MTD, Snapper, Roof, Springfield, Green Midget, Gemini, Lawnboy, Ariens, Coast to Coast and Big Mow.
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post #36 of 69 Old 01-12-2018, 03:11 PM
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Re: Need some advice about starting a small business

Here is my take. I work for a pretty large company, we always like to go to go-kart facilities for some off-hours fun or team building. We've been to some really nice, well run facilities.

Many of these are state of the art and make good coin. Always electric karts, Gas karts are for outside...and frankly suck compared to electric. Each kart has a transponder, they have TV screens that show lap times, rankings and heat standings. They also give customers their own fancy name if they want, those scores are always kept and people can always try to best the top runners. This way, you get return customers, always trying to maintain their standings, better their standings or just compete.

Go electric, much better experience and maintenance costs. Karts are quicker and programmable. Programmable in that a main computer limits speeds on first couple of laps for all cars on a race, then after laps are over to warm up drivers, the computer lets loose. Cars can also be programmed for competence and performance. Also, when there is an accident, all cars get immediately de-tuned into yellow light mode, or worse case if a major, all cars get computer stopped. Its actually neat how these places are run.

Electric gets rid of fumes and gas. You live in SD, you'd lose your shirt on heat loss. Plus all that noise and fumes sucks.

A well run, high capital to start is only way to go. They have lots of returns, great for business guys, couples, wanna-be racers...it appeals to many.

You should check out a high end indoor go kart facility, you will be impressed.
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post #37 of 69 Old 01-12-2018, 03:36 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Need some advice about starting a small business

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Originally Posted by ShotgunWedding View Post
Here is my take. I work for a pretty large company, we always like to go to go-kart facilities for some off-hours fun or team building. We've been to some really nice, well run facilities.

Many of these are state of the art and make good coin. Always electric karts, Gas karts are for outside...and frankly suck compared to electric. Each kart has a transponder, they have TV screens that show lap times, rankings and heat standings. They also give customers their own fancy name if they want, those scores are always kept and people can always try to best the top runners. This way, you get return customers, always trying to maintain their standings, better their standings or just compete.

Go electric, much better experience and maintenance costs. Karts are quicker and programmable. Programmable in that a main computer limits speeds on first couple of laps for all cars on a race, then after laps are over to warm up drivers, the computer lets loose. Cars can also be programmed for competence and performance. Also, when there is an accident, all cars get immediately de-tuned into yellow light mode, or worse case if a major, all cars get computer stopped. Its actually neat how these places are run.

Electric gets rid of fumes and gas. You live in SD, you'd lose your shirt on heat loss. Plus all that noise and fumes sucks.

A well run, high capital to start is only way to go. They have lots of returns, great for business guys, couples, wanna-be racers...it appeals to many.

You should check out a high end indoor go kart facility, you will be impressed.
I've been to several in South and North Dakota. They've all had gas carts with programmable throttles that operate the same way you described the electric karts. The transponder idea is great! If ventilation is handled properly, it shouldn't be too bad for an indoor place. The main reason I anted to go indoor was because an out door track can only be open for about 5 months up here maybe. And then if it rains, they shut it down. The indoor would be a way for people to do something fun on a rainy or snowy day any time of year. You could potentially be making profit, any time of year. I've never actually seen an electric Kart myself. A guy I know that tried to make one with a Delco starter and a couple 12 volt batteries... they scrapped it before too long.

What can you do with a hopeless addiction on a limited budget in a small area? Get a bunch of garden tractors and hope the city doesn't find out.
Brands I have:Cub Cadet, John Deere, Allis Chalmers, Minneapolis Moline, Case, Ford, Simplicity, Massey Ferguson, Wheel Horse, Panzer, Montgomery Wards, David Bradley, Sears, Bolens, Craftsman, MTD, Snapper, Roof, Springfield, Green Midget, Gemini, Lawnboy, Ariens, Coast to Coast and Big Mow.
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post #38 of 69 Old 01-12-2018, 04:05 PM
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Re: Need some advice about starting a small business

step 1 - market research - is there a MARKET for your idea? (Aka customers) and how many of them? At what price?
Some of that is a guess,but go look at other go cart places and get pricing, see what karts they run, paperwork, etc. No need to reinvent teh wheel on any of this.

So now you have an idea if there is a market and a guess at the revenue you might be able to generate.

Now..costs...the building, mods to it (guard rails, waiting area, bathroom, etc). Call you local town and ask - is this permitted at all? and what is necessary? HERE in my town you need X number of parking spaces based on capacity of building, they need to be 10 feeet from the road and neighboring properties, you need X number of handicapped spaces based on total parking lot size, etc, etc - and that's JUST the parking lot - you get mroe for interior space, bathrooms (sizes, handicapped accessible, etc).

Carts, parts, fuel, tires, storage for all that. Any old cart won't do - they make carts from simple to wild..

Insurance, banking, incorporation, employee's needed, etc.

You put all this together as a business plan and proposal then go see a bank. Expect to be turned away - banks MUST protect their depositors money - they DO NOT take risks, and a startup like you describe is a big risk.

It's usually easier to get a second mortgage and then use that money to start the business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyRedneck View Post
Hey guys, I've been kicking this idea around for a while and I've been getting more and more curious about it lately. Since there is nothing to do in my town after dark, i was thinking there should be something started to keep people busy that don't have hobbies or maybe just need to blow off some steam. I was thinking an indoor go-kart track would be just the thing. Being indoors, it wouldn't matter what the weather is outside, if you can get there, you can race. All I would need for building would be a sizable shop or warehouse with a fair amount of open space and a concrete floor. Bathrooms would be a good idea too. Then there's the go karts. There's usually amusement style go karts for sale in a lot with spare parts. They usually run about $1000 to $1500 per kart but these are already set up and ready to run. I think the things I'd need to round up would be: and air exchanger bigger than is necessary for the size of building I obtain, cash register and/or card machine, all the legal documentation to waive responsibility for personal injury, insurance for the property, and I'm not sure if I'd need insurance for injury if I had the necessary paperwork, and of course a business loan to cover the start up costs. I'm sure I missed something. I figured with all the people that are on this forum, there has to be somebody that has done something similar and maybe that person(s) will have advice for me as to what I'd need to do, make happen, or watch out for. Also, is this a good idea at all? I think there's enough people in town to support it but I'm not sure (15,???). Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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post #39 of 69 Old 01-12-2018, 05:56 PM
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Re: Need some advice about starting a small business

Kind of a waste to bother with the bankawhen you expect to cut turned down which is always the case.
Like I mentioned before if you don't come into a a big inheritance the funny just isn't possible for most people. A second mortgage on your house is a wrist most people aren't willing to take for a business venture but that is definitely an option. Most people end up finding a partner or an investor to cover all or most of the money.
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post #40 of 69 Old 01-12-2018, 06:23 PM
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Re: Need some advice about starting a small business

no risk, no reward. The bigger the risk, the bigger should be the reward, right?

SO...how sure are you of your idea? Easy to ask other people to risk their money...so if you SO sure, risk your own - your home perhaps.

this is why you do the research - ask people, visit the competition, etc, etc. Reduce the risk!! be sure the idea will work!!

Quote:
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Kind of a waste to bother with the bankawhen you expect to cut turned down which is always the case.
Like I mentioned before if you don't come into a a big inheritance the funny just isn't possible for most people. A second mortgage on your house is a wrist most people aren't willing to take for a business venture but that is definitely an option. Most people end up finding a partner or an investor to cover all or most of the money.
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post #41 of 69 Old 01-12-2018, 06:27 PM
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Re: Need some advice about starting a small business

And if indoor, seriously....don't go gasoline! You want this place to be clean and be a place people can talk while their friends are racing. There are some really nice/cool electric karts out there available, don't skimp or your place will be a failure.
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post #42 of 69 Old 01-12-2018, 08:14 PM
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And if indoor, seriously....don't go gasoline! You want this place to be clean and be a place people can talk while their friends are racing. There are some really nice/cool electric karts out there available, don't skimp or your place will be a failure.
True and electric are definitely going to take over all of these places in the future.
It would be nice if the bigger the risk the bigger the reward but this is not always the case.
And not skimping is not always an option. Even skimping this would take a ton of a lot of capital to set up and how many people out there are in a position to have, to mortgage, or to borrow enough money to make a really nice clean place?
I guess this is where some people talk about the business plan. Most of the time there can be no plan for such large-scale endeavors because it's just not a possibility for the vast majority of people.
But most people were looking to start a business or work for themselves are looking to do just that. Not any one specific business. So they limit their ideas to what is achievable. This situation is different as there is just a passion for this type of facility.
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post #43 of 69 Old 01-13-2018, 10:00 AM
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Re: Need some advice about starting a small business

No plan is a plan for failure.

Passion does NOT pay the bills. People love lots of things - but can't make a buck at it let alone a living.

Before you spend/go into debt for $100k you best have a damned good idea if there are enough customers to make this work.

If you can't be sure - do not do it.

Unless yoy like working for free and giving your money to others to make them richer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TobyU View Post
True and electric are definitely going to take over all of these places in the future.
It would be nice if the bigger the risk the bigger the reward but this is not always the case.
And not skimping is not always an option. Even skimping this would take a ton of a lot of capital to set up and how many people out there are in a position to have, to mortgage, or to borrow enough money to make a really nice clean place?
I guess this is where some people talk about the business plan. Most of the time there can be no plan for such large-scale endeavors because it's just not a possibility for the vast majority of people.
But most people were looking to start a business or work for themselves are looking to do just that. Not any one specific business. So they limit their ideas to what is achievable. This situation is different as there is just a passion for this type of facility.
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post #44 of 69 Old 01-13-2018, 04:10 PM
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Re: Need some advice about starting a small business

The prof is right. A solid business plan is 110% necessary along with all the research that goes with it. A business like this, one that will be successful needs a bit of capital, and only a business plan to entice others to invest, or even a bank to loan is paramount. Don't have any of that...failure.
If you don't have the capital, or the loan, or the investors...pick something else since only a certain kind of facility is going to be successful.

Cant do a "nice clean place"? pick another idea. People don't go to crappy places, and if they do...it will be a one and done. You need returns, and lots of them unless you have millions of people in a large city to attract and don't care if they ever come back. Half-a$$ed is a failure. Whole hog or nothing, as long as the business plan is correct and the customers exist and your pricing is in line. You have to "sell" a quality service or product to willing customers.

Anyway, good luck original poster, RustyRedneck, I wish you all the success.
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post #45 of 69 Old 01-13-2018, 04:57 PM
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Re: Need some advice about starting a small business

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyRedneck View Post
Hey guys, I've been kicking this idea around for a while and I've been getting more and more curious about it lately. Since there is nothing to do in my town after dark, i was thinking there should be something started to keep people busy that don't have hobbies or maybe just need to blow off some steam. I was thinking an indoor go-kart track would be just the thing. Being indoors, it wouldn't matter what the weather is outside, if you can get there, you can race. All I would need for building would be a sizable shop or warehouse with a fair amount of open space and a concrete floor. Bathrooms would be a good idea too. Then there's the go karts. There's usually amusement style go karts for sale in a lot with spare parts. They usually run about $1000 to $1500 per kart but these are already set up and ready to run. I think the things I'd need to round up would be: and air exchanger bigger than is necessary for the size of building I obtain, cash register and/or card machine, all the legal documentation to waive responsibility for personal injury, insurance for the property, and I'm not sure if I'd need insurance for injury if I had the necessary paperwork, and of course a business loan to cover the start up costs. I'm sure I missed something. I figured with all the people that are on this forum, there has to be somebody that has done something similar and maybe that person(s) will have advice for me as to what I'd need to do, make happen, or watch out for. Also, is this a good idea at all? I think there's enough people in town to support it but I'm not sure (15,???). Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

While I have not done this I have considered it. When I was younger one of my coworkers owned an outdoor go kart track that did well, but was gas.

A company opened a indoor track just like you are talking about, and this year suddenly closed its doors leaving employees with no notice, and several yearly discount customers with no refunds. The problem is these type of things have to have a secondary thing to keep people coming back, video games or good food. It's also hard if the area is not a tourist destination, they wanted close to $35 a race and i could not justify that much just to try it out.

Good luck. But do a good business plan and remember people will not come back every weekend to race if the prices are too high.
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