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post #16 of 55 Old 08-17-2019, 08:37 PM
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Re: For about the 10 th. & final time

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Originally Posted by Gerrard View Post
I guess it wouldnt happen unless I used cad bolts and another type of nut or something like that.
Nah. Cad plating has been around for years as an effective anti-corrosion treatment.

The place where you get dissimilar-metals corrosion is between metals with significantly different electrochemical characteristics, in the presence of an electrolyte. Bolting untreated steel to untreated aluminum and dipping it in salt water is ideal, which is one reason why aircraft that go in the ocean are often junk when you pull them out. But you can demonstrate the effect by wrapping copper wire around a nail and dropping it in a bucket of water for a while.

Your cad-plated steel bolts going into an iron casting are fine. They'll outlast all of us.

I say stop worrying, find your bolts, test fit them, torque to 20 ft/lb, button that baby up, and post a video of her running!

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post #17 of 55 Old 08-18-2019, 02:24 AM Thread Starter
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Re: For about the 10 th. & final time

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Originally Posted by jrd View Post
Nah.

Your cad-plated steel bolts going into an iron casting are fine. They'll outlast all of us.

I say stop worrying, find your bolts, test fit them, torque to 20 ft/lb, button that baby up, and post a video of her running!
Sounds good, I think they had some of those that would work.
Had I knew I would have got them, instead I walked out w/a Bush craft book that costed $32 ! And a pr. of nut splitters.
If any of you read "Backwoodsman Magazine" I have letters and gun pics in there now n then, In the last issue ( not the one that just came out 2 days ago) but July/August 2019 on pg. 10 these's a few of my .22 mags in there.
Oh well thanks again for the wanted and needed info as usual.
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post #18 of 55 Old 08-24-2019, 09:14 AM
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Re: For about the 10 th. & final time

JRD - read through this thread and the advice. Bolt length sounds about right. In light of the various quirks between different versions of jug castings etc, unless you know for sure the entire history of your Gravely, it's better to err on the side of caution. That being, test fit each and every bolt in each location before snugging them down. If you use bolts that are too long, the bottom of the bolt will bottom out on a cooling fit and the torque setting on the bolt is more than enough to snap off the fin from the main casting.

On the bolts - grade 8 is definitely the way to go. The reason being they will retain their strength at elevated temps where some "normal" bolts may soften up over time due to the heating/cooling cycles over time - especially on the exhaust port side. The cyclic heating/cooling is what also contributes to loosing of head bolts with time.

Lastly, didn't see any mention of the proper procedure to tighten the head bolts. After confirming the length is correct at each spot, snug them down with a socket starting from the middle and working out in a star pattern (alternating left to right), but only snug - not tight. After they are all snugged down, then and only then torque them down - again starting with the middle of the head and working out in a star pattern.

After everything is all set up and running again, check the torque after a few hours of operation and/or a couple of heating/cooling cycles. Always check the torque when cool. Good luck.

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post #19 of 55 Old 08-24-2019, 02:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: For about the 10 th. & final time

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Originally Posted by fireant911 View Post
Mark,
Take a look here: https://www.gravelymanuals.com/pdf/C...L_19720315.pdf

page 1/2 describes the shorter bolts which are 5/16-18 X 1 3/8" (see part number 57) - 10 are needed
page 3/4 describes the two longer bolts which are 5/16-18 X 2" (see part number 12) - 2 are needed

Tractor Supply carries the 2" long bolts but not the shorter 1-3/8" long bolts. I went to Fastenal and ordered the shorter ones. I am really glad that you are back on this project!!!!
I dont know what to do now exept mow my grass so I can cool down ( mentally speaking) but Im sick of the head/heads on this thing.
Now after buying a dozen bolts literally 7 or 8 times I think Ive got some I can use and now they go thru the head and hit threads on jug/casting and STOP! And Im not about to force them in, it feels like its a totally different thread. My bolts are x 18 ( threads pr. inch I presume that means).
If I walk away from this thing again I dont know what I'll do, just buy my son a decent mower I guess because I said I'd find him one but why I picked a 50 yr. old one Im beginning to wonder.
What the h311 could be wrong now?
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post #20 of 55 Old 08-24-2019, 03:29 PM
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Re: For about the 10 th. & final time

With the head and gasket out of the way, try spinning a bolt into each of the holes in the jug. They should go in with not too much effort, finger tight or maybe a little more, but not much.

If one takes much more effort than that, stop, take it out, and make sure the threads on both the bolt and the jug are clean, then try again.

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post #21 of 55 Old 08-24-2019, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: For about the 10 th. & final time

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Originally Posted by jrd View Post
With the head and gasket out of the way, try spinning a bolt into each of the holes in the jug. They should go in with not too much effort, finger tight or maybe a little more, but not much.

If one takes much more effort than that, stop, take it out, and make sure the threads on both the bolt and the jug are clean, then try again.
Heres what happens, they go in jug good and when they hit last thread they all stop, and it almost looks like the very last thread where the bolt would go through is different. Crazy !
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post #22 of 55 Old 08-24-2019, 05:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: For about the 10 th. & final time

Had to pick some junk up at TSC when I was there to furbish my small 1/4" tools.
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post #23 of 55 Old 08-24-2019, 06:56 PM
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Re: For about the 10 th. & final time

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Heres what happens, they go in jug good and when they hit last thread they all stop, and it almost looks like the very last thread where the bolt would go through is different. Crazy !
I tried a 7.6 jug that I have in the shop. It did just what you're describing. As near as I can tell they must have tapped the holes a little short. Probably on purpose, because they spec'ed bolts that were just the right lengths.

I think you have two choices.

1. Tap the holes out the rest of the way, to let the bolts protrude through a little.
2. Cut a little off the bolts to keep the ends in the holes.

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post #24 of 55 Old 08-24-2019, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: For about the 10 th. & final time

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Originally Posted by jrd View Post
I tried a 7.6 jug that I have in the shop. It did just what you're describing. As near as I can tell they must have tapped the holes a little short. Probably on purpose, because they spec'ed bolts that were just the right lengths.

I think you have two choices.

1. Tap the holes out the rest of the way, to let the bolts protrude through a little.
2. Cut a little off the bolts to keep the ends in the holes.

Fun with machines!
WOW ! Just my luck, these heads are giving me h311! I wonder if I can find my orig. 7.6 head bolts and how bad were they ? Geesh...So what would you do, or should I say "what would be the thing for me to do being a novice" ( altho I'll prolly be a pro by the time this thing ever gets finished lol)
I have a new tap & die set and can I cut the bolts to proper length and run that thing that will cut new threads down to the bottom where I cut the bolt to "re-crown" it so to speak in gun terms like to un-bugger up the cut off part of the bolt where it was cut and needs good threads?
Or take the stick looking part of it that cuts threads on holes and run it thru the already threaded hole? Im wondering if that C.I. will bust threading from the inside as opposed to cutting and dressing up the bolt. And will one of those Dremmel wheels ( so-called cutting wheel ) cut those bolts?
Man what a bummer, but this is the story of my life and wouldnt know how to handle something any other way really.
I try to do things right, even down to the small stuff as can be seen here that I did today.

Of course I did that while messin around with other stuff. Had to fill up about 12 ankle breaking holes in my yard that my dog dug while she did that stuff, she just stopped all of a sudden...must have been the bamboo switch.
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post #25 of 55 Old 08-25-2019, 07:16 AM
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Re: For about the 10 th. & final time

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Originally Posted by Gerrard View Post
So what would you do, or should I say "what would be the thing for me to do being a novice"
I think your simplest least-risky fix is to trim the bolts.

Spin a nut on all the way. Use your dremel or even a hacksaw to get the length down to what you want. Do a little grinding to dress up the end, clean off any burrs. Unthread the nut (to clean anything else out of the threads)

One thing to watch for: If you're trimming bolts, you need to make sure you will have enough threads left to go into the hole, without the body (the unthreaded part) hitting. I wouldn't expect that to be a problem here, because you're not talking a lot of thread depth, and you've got bolts which are only a little too long. But keep an eye on it. If you end up starting with a too-long bolt, and you trim off so much of the thread that the body will hit the jug before it's down, then throw the bolt away and start with a shorter one.

After you've got your bolts trimmed, you're back to test-fitting to make sure you can snug everything by hand before torquing.


If this were my project, I'd probably tap out the holes. Some of my 7.6 machines are like that, presumably because somebody went through what you're going through; bought some bolts which were a little long. I'm advising not to do that in this case because it sounds like you're not used to using taps (the little stick looking part) and dies (the round part) to cut threads. The consequence of messing up a bolt is a new bolt. The consequence of messing up the holes in the jug is a new jug, or at least a repair with a helicoil or something like that.

You're almost there. Get those bolts sorted out, do your test fitting, torque that head on there, button her up, and go!

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post #26 of 55 Old 08-25-2019, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
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Re: For about the 10 th. & final time

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Originally Posted by fireant911 View Post
Mark,
Take a look here: https://www.gravelymanuals.com/pdf/C...L_19720315.pdf

page 1/2 describes the shorter bolts which are 5/16-18 X 1 3/8" (see part number 57) - 10 are needed
page 3/4 describes the two longer bolts which are 5/16-18 X 2" (see part number 12) - 2 are needed

Tractor Supply carries the 2" long bolts but not the shorter 1-3/8" long bolts. I went to Fastenal and ordered the shorter ones. I am really glad that you are back on this project!!!!
Oh Yea Fireant just wanted to mention that that site is the same as the sticky's manuals and I stay on that thing and am glad they are there.
Read on to the 2nd. page and see what I discovered with bolts stopping in the 7.6 jug and confirmed by jrd. I seem to get every curve ball thrown lol.
This is why I have to walk away from this thing sometimes, altho I may be pretty experienced at running these Im a novice at working on them.
When I was a kid my boss would tell me "break this and I'll kick your a** when I get back" so I was carefull w/them lol.
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post #27 of 55 Old 08-25-2019, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Re: For about the 10 th. & final time

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Originally Posted by jrd View Post
I think your simplest least-risky fix is to trim the bolts.

Spin a nut on all the way. Use your dremel or even a hacksaw to get the length down to what you want. Do a little grinding to dress up the end, clean off any burrs. Unthread the nut (to clean anything else out of the threads)




If this were my project, I'd probably tap out the holes. Some of my 7.6 machines are like that, presumably because somebody went through what you're going through; bought some bolts which were a little long. I'm advising not to do that in this case because it sounds like you're not used to using taps (the little stick looking part) and dies (the round part) to cut threads. The consequence of messing up a bolt is a new bolt. The consequence of messing up the holes in the jug is a new jug, or at least a repair with a helicoil or something like that.

You're almost there. Get those bolts sorted out, do your test fitting, torque that head on there, button her up, and go!
You are right about that, a new jug or new bolt and I have never used a T&D before and on this isnt the time to learn because I can do that when I get bored sometime.
Thanks as usual and altho its always pleasant I hope I dont have to require any more help on this particulas task.
Mark

EDIT: I got a bolt in there thru the gasket & head for proper length measurement but now Im thinking about how far to go with it? Meaning getting the bolt to the bottom of threaded hole is ez but what about when it has to be torqued? How much farther will it go then, a full rotation, half a rotation? Will it bust jug then?
Im gonna mow a bit so I can think and either watch some vids on tapping or take jug off and take it to a place that can tap it all the way.
When the measurement is so close that a half rotation of a bolt can end the whole party and bust another jug it might be worth it because if I bust another jug I doubt I will ever touch this thing ever again, unless I find myself on home confinement and I dont plan on that happening thats for sure.
Not knowing how much further the bolt will go when being torqued is a fine rope to walk. And it has to be exact.

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post #28 of 55 Old 08-25-2019, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: For about the 10 th. & final time

Now that Ive calmed down a bit and did some thinking it looks like I need some 1 1/2" ( less head ) bolts and some washers for close work. All the bolts I have bought wich is literally a 100 or so I should have some and washers to of course.
But this one has to be exact or either the head wont be on tight enuf or jug could bust because of that stoppage in the threaded hole in the jug.
I was surprised at how easy the valves & springs went back on and how jug went on and over the piston but I feared I'd get kicked in the gut somewhere and this must be it lol.

I noticed taking pics that the angle of phone cam made the black marker line look not-lined up w/ruler but it is right on .
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post #29 of 55 Old 08-25-2019, 10:04 PM
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Re: For about the 10 th. & final time

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Originally Posted by Gerrard View Post
But this one has to be exact
Nope, it doesn't.

You're overthinking it.

You need enough bolt in the hole to pull the torque you need (20 ft/lb), that's all.

You have the dimensions of the bolts from the IPL. Just cut them to those dimensions. If you're really trying to be nit-picky, after cutting, spin the bolts into the jug (without forcing them) and measure how much bolt you have protruding. Any bolt that's too tall for the dimension of the head plus gasket, take off a little more. Or add a washer under that bolt when you assemble it.

If the end of the bolt is 1/8" or maybe even 1/4" above the "bottom" of the threads, you're still fine.


Think about when they were assembling these things at the gravely factory. Any sort of machine that required all kinds of precision and hand-fiddling would never have made it out the door. They were made with loose tolerances on purpose. Exact is the last thing they need to be.

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post #30 of 55 Old 08-25-2019, 11:27 PM Thread Starter
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Re: For about the 10 th. & final time

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Nope, it doesn't.

You're overthinking it.

You need enough bolt in the hole to pull the torque you need (20 ft/lb), that's all.

You have the dimensions of the bolts from the IPL. Just cut them to those dimensions. If you're really trying to be nit-picky, after cutting, spin the bolts into the jug (without forcing them) and measure how much bolt you have protruding. Any bolt that's too tall for the dimension of the head plus gasket, take off a little more. Or add a washer under that bolt when you assemble it.

If the end of the bolt is 1/8" or maybe even 1/4" above the "bottom" of the threads, you're still fine.


Think about when they were assembling these things at the gravely factory. Any sort of machine that required all kinds of precision and hand-fiddling would never have made it out the door. They were made with loose tolerances on purpose. Exact is the last thing they need to be.
Im just real worried about bustin another jug because like I said if I bust another one it'll be next spring before I work on it again probably. And if I didnt already have the jug on I'd just take it to a place a cpl miles away that works on Gravely's. There is actually a huge hdwre. store/Tractor place that carries Gravely's and has worked on them for 50 yrs. and still works on the old ones but the only time I used them was to get that dad burn pulley on w/the new bearings because I just couldnt get it right but how I got the mark on the bolt was I just laid the gasket and head on the jug and took a bolt and hand screwed it in there and had a socket on a extension ( no ratchet) and just made sure it was in there and marked where the rest of bolt was sticking out.
Bolts dont cost much and I would at least think that they all are the same length exept for maybe a cpl threads less the two long ones for cooling shields so I could get some 1 1/2 bolts preferrably all threaded and just push them on my grinding wheel and remove a few threads and I'd have enuf to feel safe tourqing .
I'll have to give it some thought, Ive done so many things today my mind feels polluted lol.
Thanks for all the advice and help.
I think your'e about the only one that hasnt given up on me here, but I cant say I blame them.
Mark
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