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post #16 of 26 Old 03-06-2017, 08:40 AM
Daryl G
 
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Re: putting together new split rims, tubes & tires

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Originally Posted by Gerrard View Post
... P.S.-Could anyone tell me how to 'quote' just a sentence or two instead of the entire post? Thanks for the info about the valve.
Gerrard,
What I do is after clicking the 'quote' button, I go directly to that section and delete the unwanted stuff. I generally add an ellipsis (this is your word for the day - it is a series of three dots that indicates an intentional omission of a sentence(s) from a text without altering its original meaning).

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Originally Posted by Gerrard View Post
... And about the flatness of the head... Im gonna put the head on a piece of glass and turn out light and shine a flashlight underneath it and that should certainly expose a gap or warp in it if any light gets through, I mean it has to, or at least close enough to where if a warp is to small to see that way some secure bolts would certainly get it back to true as its being installed unless the installation is what would cause the warpage...
A wise person here suggested to me to use a feeler gauge after placing your head on the flat surface. While firmly supporting the cylinder, go around the perimeter and see if you can coax the smallest blade on your feeler gauge set into the sealing surface. Although you could see a large warpage, smaller uneven surfaces my escape identification by using only the visual approach. Or you could simply use the fine grit sandpaper test - place your sandpaper on your flat surface and then do a few swirls of you head on this surface. Examine the evenness of the light abrasion. Ideally, it should be uniform across the ENTIRE sealing surface of the head.

Daryl G

1957 Gravely L
1974 Gravely C8
1973 Gravely CI
1967 Gravely C8

Last edited by fireant911; 03-06-2017 at 08:51 AM.
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post #17 of 26 Old 03-06-2017, 11:36 AM
jrd
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Re: putting together new split rims, tubes & tires

It's worth noting that you'll nearly always see some unevenness on a head, esp one that's been run. One way you tell what to expect is how thick and squishy the head gasket is

There are engines designed for very tight tolerances and precise machining. I've worked on things like racing motorcycles where the head gasket is just a sheet of copper about .020 thick. The gravely is not one of these.

I'd say if you torque it down more or less, and can't fit anything less than .005 into the gap, you're fine.

I wonder what you'd get if you tried that trick on a brand-new machine straight from the factory?

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post #18 of 26 Old 03-06-2017, 04:24 PM
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Re: putting together new split rims, tubes & tires

One of the most common pieces of 'flat' are the marble pieces sold for window sills, and you can use them for backing sandpaper while 'decking' your jug of cylinder head.

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post #19 of 26 Old 03-06-2017, 10:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: putting together new split rims, tubes & tires

And I wonder how much its not the head but the cylinder sometimes? Or a little of both? Guess I'll jump off that bridge when I come to it. I gotta get in gear because Ive hit a wall on it .
I didnt want to get into the inner workings of it but its a have-to thing to some degree like the sump wich sounds like I can handle, might need some 'coaching' but it will be done. I was kinda worrying about the valves but Im not gonna anymore cause its been bored recently and someone had to check them out when that was done. I just need for the season to change and stay changed.
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post #20 of 26 Old 03-07-2017, 07:49 AM
Daryl G
 
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Re: putting together new split rims, tubes & tires

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Originally Posted by jrd View Post
It's worth noting that you'll nearly always see some unevenness on a head, esp one that's been run. One way you tell what to expect is how thick and squishy the head gasket is ...

jrd,
The last head gasket I purchased was anything but squishy. Although I have done no scientific testing on this gasket, I would guess the compressibility of these rigid gaskets is minimal... extremely minimal. I had considerable leakage from the head and cylinder using this gasket and it was not alleviated until I leveled the head. I realize that some, albeit minimal, surface waviness is bound to exist but, at least in my case, mine was not resolved until the head was leveled.

Given the opportunity, I would much prefer to have a head gasket that can accommodate the slight non-uniformity of these two mating surfaces rather than the hard, seemingly unmalleable gasket that I received. I suspect that I will fabricate my own head gasket the next time around as I am not pleased with this ‘improved material type’ gasket that I ordered… and cost-wise, it is also MUCH cheaper to make these and Fel-Pro has a material that is suited for this application. I realize that others may not share this view and their experiences may be positive; however, I do not share the same view.

Daryl G

1957 Gravely L
1974 Gravely C8
1973 Gravely CI
1967 Gravely C8
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post #21 of 26 Old 03-07-2017, 08:02 AM
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Re: putting together new split rims, tubes & tires

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Originally Posted by beaner2u View Post
One of the most common pieces of 'flat' are the marble pieces sold for window sills, and you can use them for backing sandpaper while 'decking' your jug of cylinder head.

Roger,
Roger,
That is an interesting suggestion. To add slightly to that… if there is a marble installer local, I bet that you could stop by and ask permission to get a piece of scrap marble from their refuse pile. There is an installer close to us and behind their shop is a small hill of marble remnants – plenty of which are large enough for performing the type of head work required. My wife and I rummaged through our local marble supplier’s pile (with their permission) to find a specific color combination that we were looking for. This approach could work wonderfully for getting a stable, flat surface to smooth the bottom of the head - I love free!!!

Daryl G

1957 Gravely L
1974 Gravely C8
1973 Gravely CI
1967 Gravely C8
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post #22 of 26 Old 03-07-2017, 10:45 AM
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Re: putting together new split rims, tubes & tires

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jrd,
The last head gasket I purchased was anything but squishy.
It's all relative. A thicker gasket which is composite with some kind of fibrous core, will compress under load more than a thinner gasket, or one which is for instance all metal. I haven't measured it, but I'd expect a gravely T head gasket to compress at least several thousandths when torqued down.

Hmmm. I've got some old gaskets lying around, plus dial indicators and a hydraulic press. Maybe I should try it and see what I get

There are lots of references to construction of head gaskets for different use cases. See for instance What?s what? The facts of Gasket Materials ? SCE Gaskets

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post #23 of 26 Old 03-07-2017, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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Re: putting together new split rims, tubes & tires

The new one I have is very squishy and seems to actually be kinda thick and made of a soft material and would certainly fill a small air gap I would think, depending on what kind of pressure is in the leak or would-be leak. There are pics of it on here but I dont know if you can tell what its made of but I did get it from an actual Gravely place as in the old place in Dunbar W.Va.
But its kinda strange to think that a warp that could cause so many problems can be small enuf to be smoothed or leveled out by hand. I mean if to much metal is removed the valves will be slamming into the top of the head or you could possibly have plug probs as well.
All of my thoughts are just that and are metaphoric in nature so Im not challenging anyone's experience on here thats for sure. I hope mine is OK because it has a fresh bore job done to it and the gasket (if thats what you wanna call it) that was on it was hardly much more than a piece of paper so my new one would be 5 times as thick as what was left on it, and whoever bored it must have reused the old gasket I would think.
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post #24 of 26 Old 03-07-2017, 01:23 PM
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Re: putting together new split rims, tubes & tires

The last one I purchased definitely does not have a fibrous center; however, the old gasket I replaced did. I was worried about the new gasket's ability to seal before it was even installed - it was rigid, I mean rigid and hard. $15 for a head gasket that performed poorly... I will not buy these 'new improved material' gaskets again. It seals better now but the head had to be leveled first (the old head gasket never had a problem with sealing). I guess others have not had bad experiences with these???

Daryl G

1957 Gravely L
1974 Gravely C8
1973 Gravely CI
1967 Gravely C8
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post #25 of 26 Old 03-08-2017, 01:19 AM Thread Starter
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Re: putting together new split rims, tubes & tires

IM looking at mine (head gasket) and its dark grey in color and seems like it has a thin metal gasket in the middle sandwiched by this kinda plyable carbon fiber looking stuff on the top, I say top because one side seems to certainly be the bottom side of it. Its prolly 2mm thick almost just to look at it, maybe even 3. Its in this pic but you have to up-size it to see if you can tell anything about it, and thats the top-side. Dang thats to blurry, let me try the other one.Click image for larger version

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post #26 of 26 Old 03-08-2017, 01:23 AM Thread Starter
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Re: putting together new split rims, tubes & tires

Heres the other pic, Im gonna start using my old phone cam. Cant tell anything here.
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