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post #121 of 150 Old 05-27-2019, 09:44 PM
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Re: Would anyone be Interested in my Chinese Tractor Experience

I bought a Nortrac 24 hp diesel several years ago for the price. It's 1930's technology. Hi-Lo gearbox + creeper. It's got 4 wd, power steering 5foot fel and a roof. BUT, it's not a substantial tractor. If I had to ploy the back 40, I doubt that it'd be running today. I paid $10,300 no tax, delivered and since I basically use it to maintain my gravel road, it's all I really need.
Northern hydrolics is based in Burnsville, MN just outside of Saint Paul where I resided for 42 years. I called on a Wednesday night and it was delivered Saturday morning here in Tennessee.

In the past:
Craftsman, MTD, Snapper, 1961 Ford 801 Powermaster, 1992 LB 4.5HP 580546, 2003 LB 10552 6.5HP Duraforce, IH Cub Cadet 105, 2001 Cub Cadet 2146 14HP Linamar 38" deck, love of my life (Sold 10 Dec 2011), 2007 Cub Cadet 2550 22HP Kohler Vtwin 50"deck (Sold 22 Aug 2018)
In use:
1994 JD LX178 sweet little mower, only 15HP, twin cyl, 38" deck, liquid cooled!
1998 JD 445 22HP Shaft driven wheels, shaft driven 60" deck, diff-lock, hydraulic lift, power steering, fuel & temp gauges, fuel injected, and liquid cooled! This machine has it all!
2005 Nortrak NT 254 25HP Diesel 5' FEL, here's a case of cost-cutting, I only need a tractor 3 or 4 times a year

Going to try to stay Liquid Cooled the rest of my life! Hey, it gets HOT here!
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post #122 of 150 Old 05-29-2019, 05:25 PM
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Re: Would anyone be Interested in my Chinese Tractor Experience

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Originally Posted by PlugnPlay View Post
So it turns out no one recognizes the bell housing on my tractor let alone want to make an adapter for a 4BT SAE3 Flywheel housing. The bellhousing marries to a YTO Diesel engine. YTO themselves being around since 1955 and the biggest manufacturer of tractors in China.
Anyways, next option, get my manufacturer to ship over a flywheel and flywheel housing that they normally use then try and fit them to my Cummins. Air freight from China to me is just short of twice the price of the actual parts.......at least it should be quick I guess.....

Been driving Deeres since 1974, Dodges since 1984, and Davidsons since 2004. Love my wife and kids I'm a blessed man.

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post #123 of 150 Old 05-29-2019, 06:10 PM
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Re: Would anyone be Interested in my Chinese Tractor Experience

This is an interesting thread!

My "honey-do list" is so long it has chapters.
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post #124 of 150 Old 05-30-2019, 07:45 AM
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Re: Would anyone be Interested in my Chinese Tractor Experience

Maybe I missed it, but why wouldnt you use a cummins flywheel instead of trying to adapt a YT onto your cummins engine? What you really need to do is make a template of your cummins bell housing and then a template of your tractors casting that bolts up, then have someone with a plasma cutter or a huge milling machine cut an adapter out of thick plate steel. Just make sure your shaft centers line up correctly when drawing your templates.
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post #125 of 150 Old 06-05-2019, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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Hey Junky, good idea that I did consider but then thought I may miss something in measurements / template creation so my current plan is to get the flywheel housing from the manufacturer, make sure it fits the tractor bellhousing, take this and the Cummins flywheel housing to a local machine shop and then get them to do the exact measurements and maybe make me a custom flywheel adapter or adapt the Chinese flywheel housing appropriately. I'll do similar with the actual flywheel
For those that are interested, the manufacturer is now adapting their tractor design so it will be ready to take a Cummins 4BT engine without the hassle I'm going through should future customers be interested. It would be up to the individual to source a 4BT engine and install it.
The engine supplier I used based out of Denver, Big Bear Engine Company, have said that they can supply brand new Cummins 4BT engines with no issues and John there has been awesome.
Maybe I should start a new business up here in the cold white North.......
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post #126 of 150 Old 06-06-2019, 03:15 AM
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Re: Would anyone be Interested in my Chinese Tractor Experience

Did/do you have a clutch/flywheel for the transmission? You'd want to make sure you get enough distance to stuff everything inside, without needing a spacer or only a short spacer, and be able to mount a starter at a reasonable spot, and the clutch throwout bearing (that appears to be installed in the transmission) will work with the clutch.

I would've suggested just using your mill/welder with a plate of 1/8" steel, and measure everything out youself, then mill (and maybe weld hole over and redo it as necessary) until it fits perfectly. And even a paper rub (as in, place paper over end of transmission, tape in place, rub a pencil on it to locate edges and holes) is remarkably accurate as a pattern for transferring to something else.

and one thing you'll/the machine shop will need is todo is locate the centerline of the transmission input shaft w.r.t. the housing, as your adapter housing/plate will need to put the center of the crankshaft along that centerline. I'm pretty sure it has to be very close, as if it is misaligned, you'll get pretty good vibrations there. You might want to make that plate I suggested, then drill/cut a bit hole about where the transmission input shaft is, so you can more easily measure the location of the shaft relative to the mounting bolts. Or make a tube that fits very precisely on the transmission shaft, that extends past the edge of the transmission housing, and then measure to that tube.

The 3 most important "locations", that need to be accurately placed relative to each other, are the 2 indexing pins sticking out of the transmission housing, and the centerline of the transmission input shaft (which will translate to your engine's adapter plate as 2 holes for indexing pins sticking out of the engine housing). Those indexing pins make sure everything is properly aligned, and the bolts just hold everything together (so the bolt holes don't have to be as accurately located/sized, just so you can get the bolts in and they can clamp the bits together.

Last edited by dave_r; 06-06-2019 at 03:51 AM.
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post #127 of 150 Old 06-06-2019, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Would anyone be Interested in my Chinese Tractor Experience

Hey Dave,

I have the clutch and clutch plate from the tractor manufacturer so I reckon, between the SAE3 flywheel and SAE3 flywheel housing that came with the engine along with the flywheel and flywheel housing that the tractor manufacturer is shipping, I "should" be able to make some progress.
Paper and pencil rubbing, **** good idea that one, will make sure I remember that for future challenges :-)

I knew that this would be a challenge from the outset and hopefully worth it in the end, that's why I'm happy to share my learnings with others - luckily I'm not under a time crunch and my livelihood isn't dependant on it
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post #128 of 150 Old 07-10-2019, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Would anyone be Interested in my Chinese Tractor Experience

Hey all,

sorry I've not updated for a while, got the flywheel and flywheel housing from the tractor manufacturer last week, turns out Fedex can get them across a few thousand km from China to Edmonton but then decided to give them to a local shipping company for the last 200km and Fedex didn't bother to check that the local shipping company doesn't deliver out to my address...……..

so now my next challenge - the local heavy diesel place doesn't do custom fabrication and the local machine shop doesn't fabricate vehicle parts such as a flywheel housing - guess I'm going to have to get and learn how to use a plasma cutter...……….

Question for the group - what steel would you use to make a custom flywheel housing for a Cummins 4BT engine? The flywheel housing I got from china is 20mm thick cast iron
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post #129 of 150 Old 07-10-2019, 12:15 PM
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Re: Would anyone be Interested in my Chinese Tractor Experience

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Originally Posted by PlugnPlay View Post
Hey all,

sorry I've not updated for a while, got the flywheel and flywheel housing from the tractor manufacturer last week, turns out Fedex can get them across a few thousand km from China to Edmonton but then decided to give them to a local shipping company for the last 200km and Fedex didn't bother to check that the local shipping company doesn't deliver out to my address...……..

so now my next challenge - the local heavy diesel place doesn't do custom fabrication and the local machine shop doesn't fabricate vehicle parts such as a flywheel housing - guess I'm going to have to get and learn how to use a plasma cutter...……….

Question for the group - what steel would you use to make a custom flywheel housing for a Cummins 4BT engine? The flywheel housing I got from china is 20mm thick cast iron
Why can't you use the housing you just got?
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post #130 of 150 Old 07-10-2019, 12:28 PM
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Re: Would anyone be Interested in my Chinese Tractor Experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlugnPlay View Post
Hey all,

sorry I've not updated for a while, got the flywheel and flywheel housing from the tractor manufacturer last week, turns out Fedex can get them across a few thousand km from China to Edmonton but then decided to give them to a local shipping company for the last 200km and Fedex didn't bother to check that the local shipping company doesn't deliver out to my address...……..

so now my next challenge - the local heavy diesel place doesn't do custom fabrication and the local machine shop doesn't fabricate vehicle parts such as a flywheel housing - guess I'm going to have to get and learn how to use a plasma cutter...……….

Question for the group - what steel would you use to make a custom flywheel housing for a Cummins 4BT engine? The flywheel housing I got from china is 20mm thick cast iron
I am assuming you mean adapter plate and not flywheel housing? And did you mean what type of steel or what thickness? Generally the harder steel you get the thinner you can go. Just using a steel plate from what a general supply yard might stock, I would probably want at east 1/2 or 5/8 thick. Maybe more, especially if there needs to be threads into it. I would imagine that would be your case, but can't say without an overlay of the patterns from both pieces to be joined. Also you need to take shaft lengths into account or you may have machining or adapters to do there also.
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post #131 of 150 Old 07-10-2019, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Would anyone be Interested in my Chinese Tractor Experience

thanks folks - I cant use the one that I've just got as the bolt pattern for the engine mounting is for a YTO engine and not a 4BT which I knew already before ordering it.

Basically I have an SAE3 flywheel housing (on the right in the photo) which has the bolt pattern to fit to the 4BT as it came with the engine but doesn't fit to the transmission bellhousing on the tractor and I have the new flywheel adapter plate (on the left in the photo) that does fit the transmission bellhousing but doesn't have the bolt pattern to mount to the engine

I already knew all this so its not a surprise, what is surprising is that no-one seems to want to make me one as I contacted 3 custom manufacturers in the US as I have the engineering drawings but none wanted to make me a custom plate

I'll leave the flywheel conversation to another time :-)

all good fun for sure
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post #132 of 150 Old 07-10-2019, 04:28 PM
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Re: Would anyone be Interested in my Chinese Tractor Experience

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Originally Posted by PlugnPlay View Post
thanks folks - I cant use the one that I've just got as the bolt pattern for the engine mounting is for a YTO engine and not a 4BT which I knew already before ordering it.

Basically I have an SAE3 flywheel housing (on the right in the photo) which has the bolt pattern to fit to the 4BT as it came with the engine but doesn't fit to the transmission bellhousing on the tractor and I have the new flywheel adapter plate (on the left in the photo) that does fit the transmission bellhousing but doesn't have the bolt pattern to mount to the engine

I already knew all this so its not a surprise, what is surprising is that no-one seems to want to make me one as I contacted 3 custom manufacturers in the US as I have the engineering drawings but none wanted to make me a custom plate

I'll leave the flywheel conversation to another time :-)

all good fun for sure

Been driving Deeres since 1974, Dodges since 1984, and Davidsons since 2004. Love my wife and kids I'm a blessed man.

1970 140 H1
1977 300 H2
1983 314 H1 for sale
110 parts tractor for sale
198? 332 50" deck
300 series #33 tiller
Single piston dirt/snow plow
piston lift snow blower
Hand made pintle hitch
Bradley plow, harrow, and disc.
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post #133 of 150 Old 07-10-2019, 06:47 PM
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Re: Would anyone be Interested in my Chinese Tractor Experience

PLEASE forgive my youthful and blissful ignorance, but could there be enough room between the transmission and engine, and the frame stiff enough, and possible to independently mount the engine/trans, to accommodate a short shaft with a U joint in the middle? No need for bell housing? Just thinking outside the box...
(cue criticism...)
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post #134 of 150 Old 07-11-2019, 05:13 AM
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Re: Would anyone be Interested in my Chinese Tractor Experience

Maybe try a machine shop in Edmonton and/or Leduc? There's plenty of them for the oil patch, and I don't think they are particularly busy right now..
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post #135 of 150 Old 07-11-2019, 08:27 AM
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Re: Would anyone be Interested in my Chinese Tractor Experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlugnPlay View Post
thanks folks - I cant use the one that I've just got as the bolt pattern for the engine mounting is for a YTO engine and not a 4BT which I knew already before ordering it.

Basically I have an SAE3 flywheel housing (on the right in the photo) which has the bolt pattern to fit to the 4BT as it came with the engine but doesn't fit to the transmission bellhousing on the tractor and I have the new flywheel adapter plate (on the left in the photo) that does fit the transmission bellhousing but doesn't have the bolt pattern to mount to the engine

I already knew all this so its not a surprise, what is surprising is that no-one seems to want to make me one as I contacted 3 custom manufacturers in the US as I have the engineering drawings but none wanted to make me a custom plate

I'll leave the flywheel conversation to another time :-)

all good fun for sure

The depth between the input shaft and the end of the crankshaft will likely have a bigger impact on the thickness of the material you use for the adapter plate. The snout of the input shaft will need to fit into the back of the crankshaft and fully engage the center of the clutch disc itself if that is the same as most other manual transmissions.
I would create a plywood template of what the adapter itself should look like so that I could measure the distance from the face of the adapter on the right to the face of the one that sits against the transmission and then measure the assembled flywheel / clutch / release bearing / pilot bearing and that will at least give you an idea of what you expect from them. Does not have to be particularly accurate but a picture is worth a 1000 words. (o: That plus the engineering drawings "should" be enough.
To adjust for this distance you may be able to machine off some of the surface of the bell housing you show on the right or add to the thickness of the adapter plate. If you do not supply measurements for the whole package I cannot think of anyone who would be interested.
The surfaces of both plates should be able to be inputted into a CNC machine and cut out relatively easily. Not cheap but not rocket science for a machine shop.
Down in this neck of the woods there are 2 shops I would try. 1 of them for sure would have done it a few years ago however the owner passed away and I have not used them since the new owners have taken it over but I believe they were former employees. The other manufactures equipment for the oil industry and would also be a candidate. Maybe check with NAIT and see if any of their new machinists / apprentices / teachers may be interested.
The good news is that once you have this done the rest should be relatively straight forward.
It always looks so much easier on TV.

Last edited by hgl1; 07-11-2019 at 08:35 AM.
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