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post #31 of 42 Old 05-01-2019, 01:52 AM
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Re: Uphill in 2nd; 30 Minutes Later, Not So Much

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Originally Posted by Dee_Veloper View Post
That indicates to me an engine problem. It could be in the ignition, as my power problem was, or it could be in the governor (if it has one )/ fuel problem. You also may want to check the engine compression.
Engines produce torque, and over a specific amount of time, that torque translates into horsepower. If the load is too great, the engine rpm will drop and less torque and horsepower are produced. If the load stops, so does the engine, unless there is slippage somewhere in the drive train.

I have yet to see an internal combustion engine that slips under load. A reduction in engine rpm due to poor ignition, carburation, or timing is not the same as slippage.

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post #32 of 42 Old 05-01-2019, 12:59 PM
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Re: Uphill in 2nd; 30 Minutes Later, Not So Much

I feel like I am jumping into the middle of something I don't know much about, but having an AC and Simplicity tractor (neither are shuttles) I have seen posts about the AC shuttle drives over on Simple trACtors forum that indicate this may not be an uncommon problem with this system. The "shuttle" is a planetary gear reversing mechanism that needs to have everything adjusted just right to work properly - that includes braking pads, tension of the reversing belt, and some other adjustments. People say that it must be set up exactly according to the manual and have all the components functioning as they are supposed to. I don't think you have an issue with belt slippage so much as the shuttle being only partly in the correct forward or reverse position, and/or not staying in the right position.

I am no expert, not even a novice with the shuttles - but this sounded pretty familiar from following the forum.
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post #33 of 42 Old 05-01-2019, 01:02 PM
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Re: Uphill in 2nd; 30 Minutes Later, Not So Much

Trans Conversion In 416s? - Allis Chalmers, Simplicity Tractor Forum - GTtalk

Try this link for an example of what I am talking about
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post #34 of 42 Old 05-01-2019, 05:41 PM
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Re: Uphill in 2nd; 30 Minutes Later, Not So Much

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I have yet to see an internal combustion engine that slips under load. A reduction in engine rpm due to poor ignition, carburation, or timing is not the same as slippage.
Never said it was an engine slipping, (whatever that is ). The OP has stated there is no slippage...but the tractor doesn't move in second gear. Why only one gear is the problem.

Initial slippage investigations apparently revealed nothing. My recommendation is to then rule out all engine problems...rule out transmission problems, then look at the remaining components (again), which so far have revealed no clues.

If there is another component like a shuttle or a hi-lo shifter, that could be a place to look but we don't have a picture of the tractor or a video of the problem.
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post #35 of 42 Old 05-01-2019, 06:54 PM
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Re: Uphill in 2nd; 30 Minutes Later, Not So Much

Here is a pic of a Simplicity Shuttle drive. (this is from a 914, but the 416 is the same system) The large pulley and bolted gearbox is a forward/reverse planetary drive. This is hooked up to a 4-speed manual transmission. The brake band on the large pulley must be in adjustment, the mechanics that run the small pulley must be adjusted, The shift linkage and parking brake must be adjusted properly and the internal workings of the shuttle planetary must be in good working order. Having these things out of adjustment can result in the planetary not fully shifting that results in poor performance like that described in this post. The adjustments can only be made by following the sequence in the service manual, and maybe in the Operator manual, too.

The main clutch and drive belt on these is pretty bombproof - that is the smaller pulley in the lower right. It is just a spring-loaded clutch pedal engagement that can fit belts that are close to right.
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post #36 of 42 Old 05-02-2019, 08:31 AM
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Re: Uphill in 2nd; 30 Minutes Later, Not So Much

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Here is a pic of a Simplicity Shuttle drive.
ZTT42,
Thanks for adding this picture. Much easier to understand the workings of a shuttle drive.

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post #37 of 42 Old 05-02-2019, 09:10 AM
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Re: Uphill in 2nd; 30 Minutes Later, Not So Much

The complexity of the mechanical system on this type of thing is why the hydrostatic drive was invented...

Not saying it is a bad system; they are well built, but must be adjusted right or the dream turns into a nightmare.
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post #38 of 42 Old 05-02-2019, 05:18 PM
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Re: Uphill in 2nd; 30 Minutes Later, Not So Much

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The brake band on the large pulley must be in adjustment, the mechanics that run the small pulley must be adjusted, The shift linkage and parking brake must be adjusted properly
The brakes would be an excellent place to start looking for problems. Are the brakes engaged or disengaged ?
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post #39 of 42 Old 05-06-2019, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Uphill in 2nd; 30 Minutes Later, Not So Much

Hey all....

Sorry for being AWOL here, and was glad to see some dialog ensuing sans me.

In any event, an update.

Member ZTT42 sent me a private message which included a link to a Large-Frame Garden Tractcors - Service & Repair Manual and his/her (I presume male, but....) recommendation of where in the manual to start my search.

So today I got looking at it and saw really simple-to-follow directions for various drive train- and brake-related adjustments.

There were basically three, all of which I did do. The longest part of the whole thing was locating my tools...lol.

Anyway, after making all three adjustments, I took her to the base of the hill, put her in gear and throttled it. And...she didn't make it up in 2nd gear...she made it in 3RD GEAR!!!

WOOHOO!!!

Well, to say I was pleased would be a colossal understatement. But I had to see if it was a fluke. So, I started a second run when...she died. Just...died. Now this was going downhill...not uphill.

SIGH

So, yeah. She's sitting peacefully on the downhill slope, awaiting my next "AHA!" moment in the ongoing saga of my dear 401S. But she DID make it up the hill in 3rd gear WITH the mower running. So I am as pleased with that post-adjustments performance as I am disappointed that we have yet another issue.

For what it's worth, I 1) made sure the fuel tank had fuel (it did), 2) ensured that fuel was making it to the filter (it was) and 3) took the fuel filter off my 416S and put in my 410S (didn't help). So, although I haven't ensured that fuel is making it past the fuel filter, I will start a new thread on this topic.

Anyway, a huge "thank you" to everyone who helped me.

Well, onward and upward! See ya on the next thread. (Or not. )
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post #40 of 42 Old 05-06-2019, 06:08 PM
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Re: Uphill in 2nd; 30 Minutes Later, Not So Much

Now everything is working ...except 2nd gear ?

If so, the problem must be in the transmission. Possibly #2 gear has a broken key on its shaft or the shaft is partially frozen due to bad bearings. Your manual should have some transmission diagrams.

If this is the case then you may want to find a parts tractor and swap transmissions.
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post #41 of 42 Old 05-06-2019, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Uphill in 2nd; 30 Minutes Later, Not So Much

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Originally Posted by Dee_Veloper View Post
Now everything is working ...except 2nd gear ?
Truth be told, I haven't tried second gear yet...lol. I took a chance on 3rd on the hill, and then she died before I could complete my second run. I am presuming that all gears are working as they should. As soon as I get it running again I can find out for sure....
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post #42 of 42 Old 05-09-2019, 06:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Uphill in 2nd; 30 Minutes Later, Not So Much

I wanted to provide what I hope is a final update to this issue.

Today I got the non-starting issue rectified and was able to tear through the yard, mostly in 3rd gear. She made it up the hill with only a few pauses. And I have a lot of torn up yard due to spinning tires. It makes me smile when I see those...lol.

So, it appears that she's in better shape than before. Again, my thanks to everyone who provided input.
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