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post #1 of 24 Old 10-14-2009, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
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Help ATF and Acetone mixture ratio?

I have read that this is a good mix to unfreeze the frozen. How many parts to parts should i mix?

TIA= Thanks in advance
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post #2 of 24 Old 10-14-2009, 12:37 PM
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Re: ATF and Acetone mixture ratio?

You mix them 1:1 .
In other words, 1 cup of ATF to 1 cup of acetone.
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post #3 of 24 Old 10-14-2009, 10:12 PM
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Re: ATF and Acetone mixture ratio?

I used 1:1 with good results.

A little experimentation might be in order too. You never know, more or less acetone may be a positive thing.



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post #4 of 24 Old 10-14-2009, 10:18 PM
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Re: ATF and Acetone mixture ratio?

Be careful about getting this on paint...

"You know, farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."
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post #5 of 24 Old 12-06-2009, 01:42 AM
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Re: ATF and Acetone mixture ratio?

Does this mix really work?I have used ATF.Why add acetone?This is a first for me.
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post #6 of 24 Old 12-06-2009, 08:30 AM
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Re: ATF and Acetone mixture ratio?

In my experience, the acetone thins the ATF to make it penetrate better and I think that the acetone also reacts with the rusted steel to help in freeing the frozen parts.



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post #7 of 24 Old 12-06-2009, 02:29 PM
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Re: ATF and Acetone mixture ratio?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dj2cohen View Post
In my experience, the acetone thins the ATF to make it penetrate better and I think that the acetone also reacts with the rusted steel to help in freeing the frozen parts.
Thanks for clearing that up.
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post #8 of 24 Old 02-02-2010, 11:52 PM
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Re: ATF and Acetone mixture ratio?

my take on this.

A friend sent this to me. Thought I would pass it along.

Some of you might appreciate this. Machinist's Workshop magazine
tested penetrants for break out torque on rusted nuts.
They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional
machinist, Bud Baker.
They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants
with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from
a "scientifically rusted" environment.
*Penetrating oil ..... Average load*
None ...................... 516 pounds
WD-40 ..................... 238 pounds
PB Blaster ................ 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ............. 127 pounds
Kano Kroil ................ 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix..............53 pounds
The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic
transmission fluid and acetone. Note the "home brew" was better
than any commercial product in this one particular test.
Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use
it with equally good results.
Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as good as "Kroil" for
about 20% of the price.

Bruce

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post #9 of 24 Old 02-08-2010, 02:40 PM
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Re: ATF and Acetone mixture ratio?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasBruce View Post
my take on this.

A friend sent this to me. Thought I would pass it along.

Some of you might appreciate this. Machinist's Workshop magazine
tested penetrants for break out torque on rusted nuts.
They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional
machinist, Bud Baker.
They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants
with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from
a "scientifically rusted" environment.
*Penetrating oil ..... Average load*
None ...................... 516 pounds
WD-40 ..................... 238 pounds
PB Blaster ................ 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ............. 127 pounds
Kano Kroil ................ 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix..............53 pounds
The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic
transmission fluid and acetone. Note the "home brew" was better
than any commercial product in this one particular test.
Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use
it with equally good results.
Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as good as "Kroil" for
about 20% of the price.
This same quote has been circulated over the internet for a while but if you actually read the article you will find:

The scientifically rusted enviorment was just 12 hours in salt water.

No bolts, no nuts but just dowel pins rusted into a block of steel.

A 8 hour soaking in the penetrating oil not just a few sprays.

There was no ATF but it was a 50-50 mix of acetone and power steering fluid.
Power steering fluid and acetone do not mix well, it will separate into two layers because acetone is relatively polar.

How valid was his study? From what I could tell from the article, it was really not valid. I suggest getting a copy of the article and deciding for your self.
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post #10 of 24 Old 02-08-2010, 06:24 PM
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Re: ATF and Acetone mixture ratio?

Thanks, I'll look for it. I reposted this from a TBucket forum, I frequent.

Bruce

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post #11 of 24 Old 07-05-2017, 03:11 PM
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Re: ATF and Acetone mixture ratio?

I'll revive this one from the long since forgotten...

I have been using the 1:1 mix of whatever ATF i have left over and acetone. Here is what will say. The acetone evaporates so fast that i only mix up very small batches when i need it vs keeping it pre mixed.

My mixing is also not very scientific as i use the left over medicine syringes (like you give a baby or toddler for an oral medicine) and mix about half and half and half (thats one part acetone, one part ATF, and one part of each on the garage floor).

It works very well from what i can tell. I am still a user of pb blaster if the bolt is just being stubborn vs it actually being difficult to remove. The ATF/Acetone definitely works better than PB blaster in my experience.
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post #12 of 24 Old 07-07-2017, 12:12 AM
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Re: ATF and Acetone mixture ratio?

A small engine mechanic, on another thread,stated that diesel fuel works as good as anything to free up a rusted fastner.After reading a few MSDS sheets on some of these penetrant products,i tend to agree.Diesel is a wax free oil, mixed with solvents, plus alcohol as the corrosive ingredient.ATF is a wax free oil.Acetone is a solvent/corrosive ingredient.Most of these comercial penetrants have three things in common,wax free oil,various types of solvents and some kind of corrosive ingredient.
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post #13 of 24 Old 07-07-2017, 08:57 AM
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Re: ATF and Acetone mixture ratio?

Posted this several yrs ago but couldn't find it so here is the short version. Old Simplicity 6211, parked it to do some work on it and finally did-six yrs later, In the meantime rodents had set up condo in steering and rack / pinion frozen solid w/rust. Couldn't bust loose w/ pipe wrench and feared breaking gears. Crammed entire unit in plastic bag covered w. 50/50 mix ATF and acetone and five or so days later it was free enough to dissemble and clean. Still mowing with it.
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post #14 of 24 Old 07-09-2017, 12:00 AM
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Re: ATF and Acetone mixture ratio?

I've had good luck with LLoyds Moovit

Nothing runs like a Deere, or smells like a John
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post #15 of 24 Old 04-18-2019, 09:33 AM
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Re: ATF and Acetone mixture ratio?

The recipe I found was called Ed's Red. Here is the complete story about this stuff. How it came to be used as a fastner lossener I don't know, but it does indeed work as good as any thing on the market today except for electrolysis.

December 15, 1995

Editor's Note:

Ed Harris is a well known, knowledgeable gun writer with years of
experience working for Ruger and the US government. The following
article is a re-post of his famous "Ed's Red" Bore Cleaner, which is an
inexpensive, effective firearms cleaning agent.

I've mixed Ed's Red, and one HAS to use it in a well ventilated area,
preferably outside. If you use it inside, you really should use an
appropriate respirator and exhaust fan to remove the volatile and
potentially explosive fumes. YOU MUST FOLLOW DIRECTIONS AND WARNINGS ON
USE.


Mix Your Own "Ed's Red" Bore Cleaner... It Really Works!

By Ed Harris Rev. 12-27-94

Three years ago I mixed my first "Ed's Red" and I still think the
"recipe" is a great idea. If you have never tried it, or maybe lost the
recipe, I urge you save this and mix your own. My followers on the
FIREARMS Echo think it's the best thing since smokeless powder!
Therefore, I'll summarize the story again for the passing parade that
didn't get it the first time...

I originally did this because I used a lot of rifle bore cleaner and was
deterred by the high price of commercial products. I knew there was no
technical reason why you could not mix an effective bore cleaner using
common hardware store ingredients which would be inexpensive, effective,
and provide reasonable corrosion protection and adequate lubrication.

The "recipe" is based on proven principles and incorporates two polar
and two nonpolar ingredients. It is adapted from a formula in Hatcher's
Notebook, Frankford Arsenal Cleaner No.18, but substituting equivalent
modern materials. I had the help of an organic chemist in doing this and
we knew there would be no "surprises" The original Hatcher recipe called
for equal parts of acetone, turpentine, Pratts Astral Oil and sperm oil,
and optionally 200 grams of lanolin added per liter.

Pratts Astral oil was nothing more than acid free, deodorized kerosene.
We use K-1 kerosene of the type normally sold for indoor space heaters.
An inexpensive, effective substitute for sperm oil is Dexron (II, IIe or
III) automatic transmission fluid. Prior to about 1950 that most ATF's
were sperm oil based, but during WWII a synthetic was developed for use
in precision instruments. With the great demand for automatic
transmission autos after WWII, sperm oil was no longer practical to
produce ATF in the quantity demanded, so the synthetic material became
the basis for the Dexron fluids we know today. The additives in ATFs
which include organometallic antioxidants and surfactants, make it
highly suitable for our intended purpose.

Hatcher's original formula used gum spirits of turpentine, but
turpentine is expensive and highly flammable. Cheaper and safer is
aliphatic mineral spirits, which is a petroleum based "safety solvent"
used for thinning oil based paints and as automotive parts cleaner. It
is commonly sold under the names "odorless mineral spirits," "Stoddard
Solvent" or "Varsol".

There isn't anything in Ed's Red which will chemically remove copper
fouling, but it does a better job on carbon residue than anything out
there. Several users have told me, that with exclusive use of "ER" does
reduce the buildup of copper fouling, because it removes old impacted
fouling which is left by other cleaners, reducing the adhesion of
abraded metal to the surface, and leaving a cleaner surface which
reduces subsequent fouling. It appears that "ER" will actually remove
metal fouling it if you let it "soak" so the surfactants will do the
job, though you may have to be patient.

The lanolin is optional. The cleaner works quite well without it.
Incorporating the lanolin makes the cleaner easier on the hands, and
provides better residual lubrication and corrosion protection if you use
the cleaner as a protectant for long term storage. If you want to
minimize cost, you can leave the lanolin out and save about $8 per
gallon. Mix some yourself. I know it will work as well for you as it
does for me.

CONTENTS: Ed's Red Bore Cleaner

1 part Dexron II, IIe or III ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later. 1 part
Kerosene - deodorized, K1 1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits, Fed. Spec.
TT-T-2981F, CAS #64741-49-9, or substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS
#8052-41-3, or equivalent, (aka "Varsol") 1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.

(Optional up to 1 lb. of Lanolin, Anhydrous, USP per gallon, OK to
substitute Lanolin, Modified, Topical Lubricant, from the drug store)

MIXING INSTRUCTIONS:

Mix outdoors, in good ventilation. Use a clean 1 gallon metal,
chemical-resistant, heavy gage PET or PVC plastic container. NFPA
approved plastic gasoline storage containers are also OK. Do NOT use
HDPE, which is breathable because the acetone will evaporate. The
acetone in ER will attack HDPE in about 6 months, making a heck of a
mess!

Add the ATF first. Use the empty container to measure the other
components, so that it is thoroughly rinsed. If you incorporate the
lanolin into the mixture, melt this carefully in a double boiler, taking
precautions against fire. Pour the melted lanolin it into a larger
container, rinsing the lanolin container with the bore cleaner mix, and
stirring until it is all dissolved.

I recommend diverting a small quantity, up to 4 ozs. per quart of the
50-50 ATF/kerosene mix for use as an "ER-compatible" gun oil. This can
be done without impairing the effectiveness of the mix.

INSTRUCTIONS FOR USING Ed's Red Bore Cleaner:

1. Open the firearm action and ensure the bore is clear. Cleaning is
most effective when done while the barrel is still warm to the touch
from firing. Saturate a cotton patch with bore cleaner, wrap or impale
on jag and push it through the bore from breech to muzzle. The patch
should be a snug fit. Let the first patch fall off and do not pull it
back into the bore.

2. Wet a second patch, and similarly start it into the bore from the
breech, this time scrubbing from the throat area forward in 4-5" strokes
and gradually advancing until the patch emerges out the muzzle. Waiting
approximately 1 minute to let the bore cleaner soak will improve its
action.

3. For pitted, heavily carbon-fouled "rattle battle" guns, leaded
revolvers or neglected bores a bronze brush wet with bore cleaner may be
used to remove stubborn deposits. This is unnecessary for smooth,
target-grade barrels in routine use.

4. Use a final wet patch pushed straight through the bore to flush out
loosened residue dissolved by Ed's Red. Let the patch fall off the jag
without pulling it back into the bore. If you are finished firing,
leaving the bore wet will protect it from rust for up to 30 days. If the
lanolin is incorporated into the mixture, it will protect the firearm
from rust for up to two years. For longer term storage I recommend use
of Lee Liquid Alox as a Cosmolene substitute. "ER" will readily remove
hardened Alox or Cosmolene.

5. Wipe spilled Ed's Red from exterior surfaces before storing the gun.
While Ed's Red is harmless to blue and nickel finishes, the acetone it
contains is harmful to most wood finishes).

6. Before firing again, push two dry patches through the bore and dry
the chamber, using a patch wrapped around a suitably sized brush or jag.
First shot point of impact usually will not be disturbed by Ed's Red if
the bore is cleaned as described.

7. I have determined to my satisfaction that when Ed's Red is used
exclusively and thoroughly, that hot water cleaning is unnecessary after
use of Pyrodex or military chlorate primers. However, if bores are not
wiped between shots and shots and are heavily caked from black powder
fouling, hot water cleaning is recommended first to break up heavy
fouling deposits. Water cleaning should be followed by a thorough flush
with Ed's Red to prevent after-rusting which could result from residual
moisture. It is ALWAYS good practice to clean TWICE, TWO DAYS APART
whenever using chlorate primed ammunition, just to make sure you get all
the residue out.


LABEL AND OBLIGATORY SAFETY WARNINGS:

RIFLE BORE CLEANER CAUTION: HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED.

KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN

1. Flammable mixture. Keep away from heat, sparks or flame.

2. FIRST AID, If swallowed DO NOT induce vomiting, call physician
immediately. In case of eye contact immediately flush thoroughly with
water and call a physician. For skin contact wash thoroughly.

3. Use with adequate ventilation. Avoid breathing vapors or spray mist.
It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner
inconsistent with its labelling. Reports have associated repeated and
prolonged occupational overexposure to solvents with permanent brain and
nervous system damage. If using in closed armory vaults lacking forced
air ventilation wear respiratory protection meeting NIOSH TC23C or
equivalent. Keep container tightly closed when not in use.

This "Recipe" is placed in the public domain, and may be freely
distributed provided that it is done so in its entirely with all
instructions and safety warnings included herein, and that proper
attribution is given to the author.

In Home Mix We Trust,

Regards,

Ed

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