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post #1 of 13 Old 02-22-2013, 01:46 PM Thread Starter
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Help Honda 3813 starter

My Honda 3813 was starting very hard, I've replaced the battery and solenoid. Still started hard, but now it will not start at all. Do I have to pull the engine to replace the starter? If I remove the two screws on the front end cap of the starter, will I be able to pull the inside of the starter out to the front and miss the engine mount bracket, and will I be able to get the starter back, into its' shell. If I have to pull the engine, can I leave the radiator and its hoses attached, and remove it all together? How does the engine detach from the drive shaft? Can I use the hole on the plate on the left side of the engine, directly below the air filter, that has the rectifier/regulator mounted to it, to hook to and pull the engine out? Any other sources for the purchase of a starter? The Honda Dealer wants $450. It's a Nipondenso DB5D6
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post #2 of 13 Old 02-22-2013, 02:09 PM
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Re: Honda 3813 starter

When you say hard starting do you mean the starter is turning slow or the starter turns over the engine a lot before it fires? If your starter isn't turning you can try running a hot (positive) wire to the solenoid. If this makes the starter turn it may just be a safety switch failure.
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post #3 of 13 Old 02-22-2013, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Honda 3813 starter

when it was starting up, the starter would hardly turn over , then fire up, now it won't turn over at all. Are you referring to the safety switch in the seat? I guess I could by pass that switch. I'm sorry I don't always have access to a computor. I may not be able to reply until Monday. Thanks
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post #4 of 13 Old 02-22-2013, 02:53 PM
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Re: Honda 3813 starter

You will find a better price for the starter on line. Here are a few links I have saved where they can be found a lot cheaper:

http://www.spidermarine.com/showitem...ooth%20Starter

http://nations-starter.com/honda-ind...l-engines.html

http://www.nationsautoelectric.com/Smallengine.html

The DB5D6 is Nippon Denso # 028000-8411

Check this thread by larryccf. The pictures are missing but it may help you.

https://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=95080

Dave
Honda H4514H
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post #5 of 13 Old 02-22-2013, 03:15 PM
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Re: Honda 3813 starter

Quote:
Originally Posted by mburz View Post
when it was starting up, the starter would hardly turn over , then fire up, now it won't turn over at all. Are you referring to the safety switch in the seat? I guess I could by pass that switch. I'm sorry I don't always have access to a computor. I may not be able to reply until Monday. Thanks
If it turns it's not the safety switch sounds like you do need an new starter.
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post #6 of 13 Old 02-22-2013, 11:16 PM
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Re: Honda 3813 starter

Quote:
Originally Posted by mburz View Post
My Honda 3813 was starting very hard, I've replaced the battery and solenoid. Still started hard, but now it will not start at all. Do I have to pull the engine to replace the starter? If I remove the two screws on the front end cap of the starter, will I be able to pull the inside of the starter out to the front and miss the engine mount bracket, and will I be able to get the starter back, into its' shell. If I have to pull the engine, can I leave the radiator and its hoses attached, and remove it all together? How does the engine detach from the drive shaft? Can I use the hole on the plate on the left side of the engine, directly below the air filter, that has the rectifier/regulator mounted to it, to hook to and pull the engine out? Any other sources for the purchase of a starter? The Honda Dealer wants $450. It's a Nipondenso DB5D6
It is possible to remove the starter without removing the engine if you remove the battery and battery tray as shown in the link below.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1835930...7626516992426/

More than likely the battery tray is rusted and needs to be repainted, so might as well paint it too while the tray is out.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1835930...7626516992426/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1835930...7626516992426/

Whether it is any quicker time - wise? You can probably remove the engine in an hour or so. But it is heavy and requires a good back to lift it out of the engine frame. A plus if you remove the engine is that it can be cleaned and degreased while it is out. If you drop the engine while removing or installing you could break the oil pan if you drop it.

Another plus if you remove the radiator is that it's a good time to flush out the radiator and the fins. You won't believe the amout of mud and debris in the bottom 2-3 inches of the radiator fins.

Finally, since you have the remove the water pump and timing belt cover, it's a good time to examine the timing belt. It probably needs replacing if it is still the original belt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGm-Kcnn6ew

The front rubber damper wears out first. See pic in first link above. If the nubs are worn down or if you see exposed metal replace the rubber damper.
The front rubber damper if worn severley will cause a terrrible rattle from the driveshaft while at idle.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1835930...7626516992426/

If you don't want to replace the rubber damper, tough cowhide or rubber pieces forced into the driveshaft to take up slack is the 'I'm a cheapo' fix'.

Whether you remove the engine or remove the battery tray. Don't loose the plastic bushing inside of the driveshaft when you disconnect the driveshaft from the rear of the engine.

If it falls to the floor and you step on it - you will end up having to buy a new one.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1835930...7626516992426/

There is a aluminum plate guard under the driveshaft. It's hard to remove the driveshaft if the plate is still intact. You can split the plate down the middle and not hurt a thing. I don't know it's purpose other than perhaps to keep an idiot from sticking their hand near the drive shaft when the engine is parked, and left running when removing the deck when it is used for towing,snowblowing, or when using a front blade.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1835930...7626516992426/

hth

DuWayne

Last edited by dlandsv; 02-22-2013 at 11:24 PM.
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post #7 of 13 Old 02-23-2013, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Honda 3813 starter

Earlier it was mentioned that it could possibly be the safety switch. The starter will no longer turn over. It would be good to verify it is not the safety switch. Where is this safety switch located?
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post #8 of 13 Old 02-23-2013, 08:03 PM
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Re: Honda 3813 starter

You will have to remove the driveshaft and flywheel to get access to the bolt that holds the starter on the engine. Some flywheels are very hard to remove if they have never been removed since new.

This link below posted by Larry has some very good instructions and pics showing how to remove the flywheel.

https://www.mytractorforum.com/showth...place+flywheel

Bob V used the screwdriver method. Bob's method worked on one of my 3813's.

https://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=102202

Lastly: there is a bearing in the drive clutch (just ahead of the transmission) that can sieze. If it siezes, the engine will not turn over. To test put the tranmission in first gear. If you can't push the tractor forward or backward, then you have a clutch problem instead of a starter problem.

A pic of the bearing that fails and siezes locking the clutch.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1835930...7626516992426/

hth
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post #9 of 13 Old 02-24-2013, 05:53 PM
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Re: Honda 3813 starter

You can change the brushes without pulling the engine. Just remove the oil filter and take out the two long bolts that attaches the starter end cap to the starter, remove the brush holder and replace the brushes. I did this on my tractor, took about an hour and cost about $25 from honda. Before you do this jumper the starter by going from the positive post on the battery directly to the post on starter.
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post #10 of 13 Old 04-19-2013, 09:02 AM
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Re: Honda 3813 starter

to add to the possibilities, there is a starter control relay on that "tree" of relays next to the battery

last night after posting my "3813 starter woes" i went back out to the garage and pulled the starter apart to see if i could see why it was "dragging" - everything looks good, brushes were fine, depth of the "mica" channels on the armature were still good. Unfortunately, i'm electrically illiterate and don't know how to check the continuity of the rotor, as described in the svc manual.

I re-assembled the starter and on the bench connected it to a battery and it turned fine for 8-9 seconds without any issues - granted that's a no load scenario but has me wondering if it isn't the starter relay. By accident, I had noticed that one relay was real warm when i was trying to get the engine started. I would love to understand the need for the complication of a starter relay in the circuit - basically that's what i thought we had a solenoid for...but, again, i'm electrically illiterate
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post #11 of 13 Old 05-12-2014, 09:56 PM
ute
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Re: Honda 3813 starter

To restart and old thread

How many safety switches 2 ? one at the seat one ( I can see this one ) at the gear selector ?

but where is the gear selector safety located ?
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post #12 of 13 Old 05-12-2014, 10:10 PM
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Re: Honda 3813 starter

There's safety switches at 4 locations.

The gear selector

The pto lever

The seat

And the parking brake.

"Gotta little bit of everything a lotta bit of nothing."

"Throw me to the wolves and I'll return leading the pack."

Just call me Brandon
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post #13 of 13 Old 05-13-2014, 05:37 PM
ute
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Re: Honda 3813 starter

thanks....hopefully thats my problem
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