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jbtecnico1 08-19-2018 02:38 PM

Clutch issue ? HT4213
 
2 Attachment(s)
Hi Forum,

New here.
I inherited a HT4213, won't budge.
Shifts into all gears and transmission "bumps" but buggy won't go.
See pic of Clutch/Propeller Shaft, DLR (don't look right)

I don't have a Service Manual so am going to wing it with Forum's help.

Thank you,
Jim

larryccf 08-19-2018 03:03 PM

Re: Clutch issue ? HT4213
 
I'LL ask the obvious, have you checked oil level? If it's low or dry, it's possible it's locked up. I haven't had any issues with mine so can't offer anything terribly insightful.

Something did just occur to me - the gear shift operates the clutch on the 4213 (same as the 3813) and there's a delay built into it, ie it delays engaging the clutch and that delay needs adjusting occasionally - it's supposed to be a 1 second delay, but mine had gone to 15 to 20 seconds, so when i'd shift gears it'd be that long before the tractor would move. It could easily be even more than that and possibly so far out of adjustment, it's infinity.

I'll look for my pix, if i can find them, but the adjustment is a 12mm nut - if you look under the right rear fender, over the right rear tire, at about the 1:00 O'clock position, you'll see a 12mm nut staring at you - it'll have a second 12mm nut under it. Loosen the locknut (the first one you see), and my memory is bad these days, but it should be tightening the 2nd 12mm nut shortens the wait time or delay time. If i can find my pix, i'll comeback and post them. I'd turn it a couple of turns and try starting the engine and shifting and wait a bit. What i said about the delay over time grows in length, i wasn't kidding. when i finally got off my *** and ordered a svc manual to see how to correct that delay, i felt i had time to read the ft page of the local newspaper before the tractor would move again. But it's entirely possible it's just delayed on engaging the clutch. It's not an intuitive feature on tractors that i know of.

the two 12mm nuts are ref #1 in the diagram below

https://i.imgur.com/W8tQ3LW.jpg

and in case, the shifter adjustment pages. In the 2nd page, i've highlited the transmission filler plug with a red arrow - my tractor, after 20 years, the trans oil had turned to approx 60-70W gear oil, it was a synthetic oil and a golden honey color. The oil level should be right below that plug opening - i replaced mine with a true synthetic 40 wt oil, (i wasn't about to pay honda's $15 qt price for, iirc 7 qts. If you do need to add some oil, or choose to replace, be sure to use a true synthetic oil (not mobil one) - i say true synthetic as back around 2000, there was a scandal about mobile one and castrol's synthetic oils - it came out that mobile one had lobbied the petroleum industry association to have them change the industry definition of synthetic oil to let them offer their petroleum based oil (that somehow they had chemically altered the molecular structure) but it was still a petroleum based oil. I suspect or i'd be worried the seals in the trans would not be happy with petroleum based oil. fwiw

hope that helps

https://i.imgur.com/W67gdyJ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1tuLvUn.jpg

jbtecnico1 08-20-2018 06:52 AM

Re: Clutch issue ? HT4213
 
Hi Larry,

Much appreciated.
Clear on the shift delay, the damper piston seems to be all too happy to take its good ole time...I disconnected it to just be sure the clutch was engaging, yep, all good there, no limited range of motion.
Appreciate all the thoughts and SVC manual paperwork, very nice.
The pics I included in my original post show the clutch friction disc off center. I fear something is busted there...might be a contributing factor.

As for oil, well, uh, didn't even look, not smart. Thank you for the friendly reminder to always check the obvious first.
As for the shifter adjustment, will check that too. Didn't even pay attention to it.

I'll just pull the rear fender again and get after it. Will report back...





Quote:

Originally Posted by larryccf (Post 12092277)
I'LL ask the obvious, have you checked oil level? If it's low or dry, it's possible it's locked up. I haven't had any issues with mine so can't offer anything terribly insightful.

Something did just occur to me - the gear shift operates the clutch on the 4213 (same as the 3813) and there's a delay built into it, ie it delays engaging the clutch and that delay needs adjusting occasionally - it's supposed to be a 1 second delay, but mine had gone to 15 to 20 seconds, so when i'd shift gears it'd be that long before the tractor would move. It could easily be even more than that and possibly so far out of adjustment, it's infinity.

I'll look for my pix, if i can find them, but the adjustment is a 12mm nut - if you look under the right rear fender, over the right rear tire, at about the 1:00 O'clock position, you'll see a 12mm nut staring at you - it'll have a second 12mm nut under it. Loosen the locknut (the first one you see), and my memory is bad these days, but it should be tightening the 2nd 12mm nut shortens the wait time or delay time. If i can find my pix, i'll comeback and post them. I'd turn it a couple of turns and try starting the engine and shifting and wait a bit. What i said about the delay over time grows in length, i wasn't kidding. when i finally got off my *** and ordered a svc manual to see how to correct that delay, i felt i had time to read the ft page of the local newspaper before the tractor would move again. But it's entirely possible it's just delayed on engaging the clutch. It's not an intuitive feature on tractors that i know of.

the two 12mm nuts are ref #1 in the diagram below

https://i.imgur.com/W8tQ3LW.jpg

and in case, the shifter adjustment pages. In the 2nd page, i've highlited the transmission filler plug with a red arrow - my tractor, after 20 years, the trans oil had turned to approx 60-70W gear oil, it was a synthetic oil and a golden honey color. The oil level should be right below that plug opening - i replaced mine with a true synthetic 40 wt oil, (i wasn't about to pay honda's $15 qt price for, iirc 7 qts. If you do need to add some oil, or choose to replace, be sure to use a true synthetic oil (not mobil one) - i say true synthetic as back around 2000, there was a scandal about mobile one and castrol's synthetic oils - it came out that mobile one had lobbied the petroleum industry association to have them change the industry definition of synthetic oil to let them offer their petroleum based oil (that somehow they had chemically altered the molecular structure) but it was still a petroleum based oil. I suspect or i'd be worried the seals in the trans would not be happy with petroleum based oil. fwiw

hope that helps

https://i.imgur.com/W67gdyJ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1tuLvUn.jpg


larryccf 08-21-2018 12:20 AM

Re: Clutch issue ? HT4213
 
check your PM box

Klunky Chris 09-07-2018 06:47 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Found your post as I’m trying to get info about separating the large bearing and 3-ball plate from the flywheel.
I do not like the look of your friction disc. It appears separated.
This is what it looks like from my HT3813:

Tom Bauer 09-08-2018 12:16 PM

Re: Clutch issue ? HT4213
 
flywheel? there is no flywheel. but in your first picture it is very apparent that the clutch is WAY beyond worn out. just put in a new disk and 2 new bearings. very simple.

Klunky Chris 09-09-2018 09:25 AM

Re: Clutch issue ? HT4213
 
Ok. Terminology was wrong.
I was trying to separate the #7 Ramp (bearing) from the #11 Lifter plate.
I was scared I was going to bend something, but I heated the bearing with a MAPP torch and used a 3-jaw puller on #9 Rear clutch housing. Got it off.
I realize now that the bearing had been going bad for years! The mowers *whine* is now gone! Very smooth and quiet

jbtecnico1 10-13-2018 01:39 PM

Re: Clutch issue ? HT4213
 
Hi everyone, finally getting back to this issue after much work travel and busy personal schedule.
I changed the trans oil, it was about 50% down actually.
A little difference in Reverse only, and is a little better when it "engages" in Forward.
I need to double check the actual shifter adjustment as offered earlier in this thread.

However, I'm pretty sure something is amiss in the friction plate area based on how it looks...as also stated by others in this thread.
Good news is that I found the service manual for this buggy, buried in a drawer...
I'll get on to getting the clutch apart and see what I find.
Looks like the clutch assembly is not available new so will try my luck on eBay, other...
I'm determined to get this thing fixed...appreciate everyone's insights...

MBL3813 03-07-2019 04:17 PM

Re: Clutch issue ? HT4213
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jbtecnico1 (Post 12128645)
Hi everyone, finally getting back to this issue after much work travel and busy personal schedule.
I changed the trans oil, it was about 50% down actually.
A little difference in Reverse only, and is a little better when it "engages" in Forward.
I need to double check the actual shifter adjustment as offered earlier in this thread.

However, I'm pretty sure something is amiss in the friction plate area based on how it looks...as also stated by others in this thread.
Good news is that I found the service manual for this buggy, buried in a drawer...
I'll get on to getting the clutch apart and see what I find.
Looks like the clutch assembly is not available new so will try my luck on eBay, other...
I'm determined to get this thing fixed...appreciate everyone's insights...

Yes, Hi .. It looks as though the clutch disc has seperated somehow..

Ebay, if you have yet to: https://www.ebay.com/i/303030950441?...3D303030950441


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