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post #1 of 14 Old 10-13-2019, 08:54 AM Thread Starter
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Blown up!!! Replace 20hp Kohler with a 25??

Well, I made it about 200 feet through my lawn yesterday before my Kohler command 20hp gave up the ghost!! So what to do now?!

It's a 917.273020, 20hp Kohler. I have located a GT 5000 near by and available with a 25hp. My tractor is in better all around shape than the 5000. I would prefer to repower my tractor with the 25hp so that I keep my mower deck, bagger, snow blower, and all other ancillaries.

So my question is, do you guys think the 25 would be an easy swap over to my tractor? I think the 25 may have a longer output shaft. Could I maybe shim the motor up by 1/2 inch or so to get belt alignment below? The exhaust set up is slightly different. My 20 has right side exhaust. The 25 has front exhaust.

Thoughts????

Other option is to move all my ancillaries over to the 5000. Could I replace the 54" deck with my 46 which I prefer? 3 hard bag bagger system? Snow blower, wheel weights and chains?

Thanks in advance!
Michael
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post #2 of 14 Old 10-13-2019, 09:05 AM
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Re: Blown up!!! Replace 20hp Kohler with a 25??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimsshuman View Post
I have located a GT 5000 near by and available with a 25hp.
At what price? Do you need a whole tractor that you may or may not be able to use or re-sell for parts?

Or do you just need an engine? HF has the 22HP Predators for the $600 range.

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post #3 of 14 Old 10-13-2019, 09:10 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Blown up!!! Replace 20hp Kohler with a 25??

$350 for the 5000 but I haven't seen it run yet. Seller said it ran a year ago. Gonna address that today.

I just need a motor.

Are the predators reliable enough and direct replacement for the Kohler commands?
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post #4 of 14 Old 10-13-2019, 12:07 PM
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Re: Blown up!!! Replace 20hp Kohler with a 25??

Neither is a 'direct replacement' for the CV. Both will need fuel, control, exhaust and perhaps PTO 'adjustments'.
Were I looking, I'd try for another CV that would be a 'bolt-in' replacement. Stated from the point of view of wanting it to work just the same as before. Locally, there were several Kohler CV powered lawn implements on c-list recently. Complete machines. There are also a few posters who intermittently make posts showing yards-full of used machinery, sometimes stacked 6' high. They are out there.
The Predator engines have a very good reliability reputation from all I have heard. One of their 20-22hp models (H & V are different) should fit under hood, but you would have to rig the above items. If you search youtube for 'backyard machinist'(IIRC), he re-powered a zero turn with a Predator, which cut in the 50"-range, and he seemed very pleased. If I had a need, they would certainly be on my list. But I have a 42" and don't need that much hp or torque. I don't plow, nor scrape, nor till, and don't tow much of anything. Just mow. I can hear the CV open the throttle sometimes, but mostly it is loafing.(IMO). I do not have a 'lawn', I have green stuff growing. It cuts pretty evenly, and looks fine to me.
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post #5 of 14 Old 10-13-2019, 12:29 PM
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Re: Blown up!!! Replace 20hp Kohler with a 25??

Your engine appears to be a-
CV20S-65551

The Kohler powered GT5000's I have in my database use-
CV730-0017/0029's.

Both Commands.
The cranks have the same part# except the later has a S suffix.
Both 15 Amp charge systems.

They may be very close?

BTW- I don't have that tractor's OM. Just looked at Sears to get the engine#.
I assume a 46" deck? Is it a hydro or 3x2?

Last edited by Bill Kapaun; 10-13-2019 at 12:52 PM.
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post #6 of 14 Old 10-14-2019, 06:40 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the help thus far. I picked up the 5000 yesterday. It has the cv624 (I think, I will double check that before I head to work this morning). Everything I see so far and measurements say I should be able to move the bigger engine over to my older tractor.

First thing I have to do now is get the bigger motor running on the 5000. With a battery charger on, when I sit on the seat and depress the clutch/brake and turn the key, I get nothing. Amp meter doesn't move and no noise whatsoever. I jumped across the solenoid and can crank the engine over, so it's some electrical issue. Hopefully I can get that all straightened out quickly.
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post #7 of 14 Old 10-14-2019, 06:43 AM Thread Starter
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Btw, my tractor is a cv20s hydro with a 46 inch deck. The 5000 is also hydro with 56 inch deck.
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post #8 of 14 Old 10-14-2019, 07:40 AM Thread Starter
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Confirmed. Big motor is a cv624. I'll attach pictures of both engine data decals.
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post #9 of 14 Old 10-14-2019, 08:33 AM Thread Starter
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I think I've been duped. Cv624 is an 18hp?!?!
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post #10 of 14 Old 10-14-2019, 12:21 PM
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Re: Blown up!!! Replace 20hp Kohler with a 25??

Your starting system-
WHITE wire from Key Switch to Clutch/Brake Switch to Solenoid.
Find where you have 12V in but not out. (very possibly the KS connector itself)
You did check the fuse?

There are 2 different CV22's. 624cc & 674cc. CV20 is 624cc. 3mm difference in bore.

What was the 917. from the donor?
I don't have that engine in my database, so I don't have the tractor either.
Transmission? 56" deck? I only go up to 50.

I really wouldn't be concerned about the lower power rating.
The lower powered one may actually have slightly better torque when CHUGGING.
A slightly smaller carb mixes fuel better at lower speeds.

Last edited by Bill Kapaun; 10-14-2019 at 12:40 PM.
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post #11 of 14 Old 10-14-2019, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for your help Bill! I was guessing maybe clutch/brake switch but with a quick look around, with flash light, I couldn't find it. Any pointers where it might be located?

Two different CV 22's??? Is that same thing as CV 624?? The picture above of the engine data sticker that is ripped is the donor gt 5000 engine. It appears to be a CV 624s 65578. From the sticker, you can see the displacement is 62?. Most likely 624. Something is fishy here because the plastic cover above the air filter says 25 hp, which it almost certainly is not based on the data sticker. So someone has been moving some parts around.

As for the 917#, that sticker is missing altogether. The tractor is either a 2004 or 2005 vintage. Currently has a 56" deck, although I don't know if that is what it was built with from the factory. It is hydro but I haven't yet located an I'd sticker. When I do I will report back. Thanks again Bill!!
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post #12 of 14 Old 10-14-2019, 08:28 PM
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Re: Blown up!!! Replace 20hp Kohler with a 25??

I list a couple DLT 2000's with a CV624-65578. Listed as 20HP.
I have seen the IDENTICAL Kohler listed with +/- .5 HP on similar Craftsmans on occasion. (Probably even 1 HP?)

Sears sticker doesn't always match exactly what it should. Maybe 3 price points on the otherwise identical tractor. Just use a different decal to change the HP.

A GT 5000 should have a stouter transmission than a LT.

I've just recently started adding deck widths to my file, so I probably only have about 50/1300.
Nothing over 50" so far. Does it indicate it's a Sears deck?

IF the engine is a simple swap, that is worth much in itself.
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Last edited by Bill Kapaun; 10-14-2019 at 08:37 PM.
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post #13 of 14 Old 10-17-2019, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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I haven't found any markings on the deck at all. It's been pressure washed and rattle canned.

Just to confirm what I thought I already knew about the old motor, I did a compression check. Left cylinder 130 psi. Right 0. Piston doesn't move when starting. Does move freely with a screwdriver. Broken rod? Few metal pieces in the drained oil. None in the oil filter.

Also jumped the solenoid with a little starting fluid and donor engine runs, but sounds horrid. Fuel filter and compression check to come. And with a little time, hopefully get the starting electrics sorted out.
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post #14 of 14 Old 10-21-2019, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
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Well final update on the possible engine swap. Based on it sounding and running rough and a little uneasy feeling, I decided to check compression on the donor engine. 180 in the left, and 0 in the right.

The seller suspects valve stuck open, seized lifter, and possibly bent push rod. Based on that condition along with all the other discrepancies, he graciously returned my money and I returned his tractor.

I suppose now I will start another thread and hopefully attempt to resurrect and rebuild my original cv20s and be ready by next spring. Fingers crossed that the rod broke without excess internal damage. Could I be that lucky?!?!
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