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post #136 of 193 Old 12-22-2018, 06:32 PM
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Re: Engine spins but wont start help

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Originally Posted by SPINDLEY View Post
The timing light will do no good on these small motors. Thatís only for points ignition. This motor has solid state ignition. The timing is determined by the flywheel magnet passing by the coil which produces electromagnetic pulse. I would guess itís the timing. But listen to whirly and get yourself a carb and coil. Iíll wait right here.
A timing light could be useful if you work a unit a lot. If you put engine at tdc and put mark on flywheel screen then you can use light to determine where mark aligns on fixed shroud when coil fires and mark it. In future if you suspect a sheared key you could use light to see if marks still align. I think I've only experienced a sheared key on one rider. I believe it occurred while attempting to start it when it had hydraulic lock due to carb flooding.
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post #137 of 193 Old 12-22-2018, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Engine spins but wont start help

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Originally Posted by Whirly View Post
he doesn't need a new carb or coil.. his is workin just fine.. he reported it started .. then he had problems gettin off the choke.. he installed the new throttle cable WRONG..
Hey not sure what you are referring to here. I did not install a new throttle cable.
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post #138 of 193 Old 12-22-2018, 08:59 PM
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Re: Engine spins but wont start help

You guys have a merry xmas and new years.

If ya see Santa send him my direction. I've been a nice guy

stangone5o: If ya see Santa offer him a drink and some cookies and see if he will look at your engine (get a second opinion) or go ahead and Maybe just place a help note for Santa on the engine with some milk and cookies so you don't have to wait up for him.
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post #139 of 193 Old 12-22-2018, 11:07 PM
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Re: Engine spins but wont start help

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Originally Posted by stangone5o View Post
Hey not sure what you are referring to here. I did not install a new throttle cable.
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Originally Posted by stangone5o View Post
I was waiting for the carb parts to come and they did. So I swapped out the o-rings, gaskets, float and needle.
Now I have a new problem.
I put the lever to Choke and it actually started right up. After 15 seconds or so I put the lever into full throttle and it just shut off on me. I cant imagine why it would just shut off all the sudden. I checked the linkages and I can feel the choke valve open and close when I move the lever.
My air filter is a bit old but it still looks in decent condition. Will an old air filter cause this issue? I would think not since it seems to run on with choke on.

This is my choke control...
in the pic u supplied notice the shiny part near the turtle.. (the pic is upside down).. that part needs to b under the dash.. this is causing ur problems of Y it doesn't work as it should..

if u do not do anything with it I will no longer post in this tread..


the round fenderd JD's
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total tractors is 30..
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give a monkey a wrench & he can ruin the world.. whirly 7/27/2018

Last edited by Whirly; 12-22-2018 at 11:19 PM.
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post #140 of 193 Old 12-23-2018, 09:26 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Engine spins but wont start help

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Originally Posted by Whirly View Post
in the pic u supplied notice the shiny part near the turtle.. (the pic is upside down).. that part needs to b under the dash.. this is causing ur problems of Y it doesn't work as it should..

if u do not do anything with it I will no longer post in this tread..
Still not sure what you mean. I never removed the throttle cable at that lever. Maybe the pic was a bad angle?
Here are some more pics...


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post #141 of 193 Old 12-23-2018, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Engine spins but wont start help

Heres a couple vids. This 1st one is first attempt at starting today...It was sounding ok until the second video when I sat on it and tried to move it.

This second one was shortly after and few seconds later it just shut off...

Last edited by stangone5o; 12-23-2018 at 10:05 AM.
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post #142 of 193 Old 12-23-2018, 11:03 AM
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Re: Engine spins but wont start help

Appears you have at least two problems with that rig. (hold off for now on getting the goat as a mower)
First problem is the throttle cable linkage is not getting the full range of motion to the carb.
Whirly has seen this also. Appears somone has dicked with the throttle assembly in the past maybe that you are not aware of and the engine has been just getting by ok while you had it.????

Next once the engine starts it's starting to stutter and finally die. (first in your video the engine is being cold cranked and started with no choke applied and most all Briggs engines of your type require a choke to start easily and readily, especially when cold and some even when hot re-start.

In the first video it's apparent that the engine is being started with no choke applied. If you are moving the throttle to choke the metal lever IS NOT PUSHING AGAINST THE choke linkage wire. The choke linkage wire should be pushed forward by that lever by about 3/8 to 1/2 inch. This is normally adjusted by loosening the throttle cable clamp by the white plastic piece and while the throttle lever is fully forward on the dash slide the throttle cable to the rear until you get some choke applied then re-snug the clamp. If you completely remove the throttle cable wire from the plastic piece and move the plastic piece to the rear and you don't get any choke something is wrong with the linkages at the plastic piece assembly. If you remove the throttle wire from the plastic piece and slide it back and forward with your fingers and see full range of motion in the carb throttle linkages but you cannot get full linkage range adjustment when you re-connect your throttle cable you will most likely need a new throttle cable. (a possible cause of this is because someone has re-bent the wire and it's too short.

In your second video the engine sounds like it's beginning to stutter.

I'm asking you these questions so as to try to determine if the engine is getting to much gas (flooding) or a weak ignition.
Do you see any soot or smoke from the muffler that would indicate the engine is flooding when it starts to stutter?
Is the throttle lever still at the fast starting position when it start to stutter?
do you see any smoke from the muffler after it dies?
Do you see any sparks from the muffler while it's running?
Remove the spark plug and Post a picture of your spark plug tip?

AND just because a carb looks really clean (as you say) is not a indicator that it is good. I have some carbs that I use a gravy or soup bowl and they are bad.

You need to charge your battery before you ruin your starter.

Answer the above questions and give us a report back? If the mufflers exhaust is sooty do a video of it.

Last edited by Forest Gump; 12-23-2018 at 11:12 AM.
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post #143 of 193 Old 12-23-2018, 12:17 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Engine spins but wont start help

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Originally Posted by Forest Gump View Post
Appears you have at least two problems with that rig. (hold off for now on getting the goat as a mower)
First problem is the throttle cable linkage is not getting the full range of motion to the carb.
Whirly has seen this also. Appears somone has dicked with the throttle assembly in the past maybe that you are not aware of and the engine has been just getting by ok while you had it.????

Next once the engine starts it's starting to stutter and finally die. (first in your video the engine is being cold cranked and started with no choke applied and most all Briggs engines of your type require a choke to start easily and readily, especially when cold and some even when hot re-start.

In the first video it's apparent that the engine is being started with no choke applied. If you are moving the throttle to choke the metal lever IS NOT PUSHING AGAINST THE choke linkage wire. The choke linkage wire should be pushed forward by that lever by about 3/8 to 1/2 inch. This is normally adjusted by loosening the throttle cable clamp by the white plastic piece and while the throttle lever is fully forward on the dash slide the throttle cable to the rear until you get some choke applied then re-snug the clamp. If you completely remove the throttle cable wire from the plastic piece and move the plastic piece to the rear and you don't get any choke something is wrong with the linkages at the plastic piece assembly. If you remove the throttle wire from the plastic piece and slide it back and forward with your fingers and see full range of motion in the carb throttle linkages but you cannot get full linkage range adjustment when you re-connect your throttle cable you will most likely need a new throttle cable. (a possible cause of this is because someone has re-bent the wire and it's too short.

In your second video the engine sounds like it's beginning to stutter.

I'm asking you these questions so as to try to determine if the engine is getting to much gas (flooding) or a weak ignition.
Do you see any soot or smoke from the muffler that would indicate the engine is flooding when it starts to stutter?
Is the throttle lever still at the fast starting position when it start to stutter?
do you see any smoke from the muffler after it dies?
Do you see any sparks from the muffler while it's running?
Remove the spark plug and Post a picture of your spark plug tip?

AND just because a carb looks really clean (as you say) is not a indicator that it is good. I have some carbs that I use a gravy or soup bowl and they are bad.

You need to charge your battery before you ruin your starter.

Answer the above questions and give us a report back? If the mufflers exhaust is sooty do a video of it.
Honestly this is too technical for me and I really dont know what you are talking about but I will try to answer the questions.
The throttle was full the whole time in the videos. There is no sparks in the muffler but there is a tiny bit of smoke in the muffler when it shuts down. The spark plug is brand new.

As far as the linkage I dont know. When I put it in choke the valve closes as it should and when its in full throttle the valve is open as I believe it should be. So to me it seems to be working properly.

Ive had this mower for 7 years and no one has messed with it. I only disconnected the wire from the plastic piece to check for dirt and make sure it was able to move. I put the cable back exactly where it was but this was after I started to have this issue so I was having the problem before I disconnected this cable.

If I knew what was wrong I could replace the part but thats about as far as my knowledge will get me. Ive worked on car engines with fuel injections. I am clueless when it comes to choke and carbs.
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post #144 of 193 Old 12-23-2018, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Engine spins but wont start help

Here is another video of the mechanism. The throttle cable slides in and out of its sleeve freely when I move the throttle lever..

So from here..I should put the lever all the way to choke, reconnect the throttle cable and tighten it down?
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post #145 of 193 Old 12-23-2018, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Engine spins but wont start help

Ok so some good? news...I readjusted the cable like you said, started it up and was still backfiring a bit. I then completely removed the air filter, started it and I was able to drive it around for a good 20 minutes. I picked up all my leaves. It ran pretty good, just as good as ever before. There was no backfire and no smoke.
However when I shut it off there was 1 loud pop. I started it again drove around a bit and it was fine but when I shut it off there was again 1 loud pop.

Could a bad air filter have caused all these problems? Its old but I didnt think it looked THAT bad.
Also the readjustment seemed to fix the slightly stuck linkage.

Heres a pic of my air filter which I will be replacing...Is it that bad?
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post #146 of 193 Old 12-23-2018, 03:01 PM
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Re: Engine spins but wont start help

A plugged air filter can definitely cause problems with the engine starting/running. I would put on a new one, but I can't really tell from that pic how dirty that is.

However, in the future, I would suggest that you NOT drive around and use your machine for work with the air cleaner off. It's job is to keep dirt out of your engine, and when you use it without the air filter, that dirt goes right into the engine. And leaves, particularly if they are dry, generate a lot of dirt in the air as the mower chops them up. For a minute or two, as part of testing the engine, not a big deal, but leaving it off while using the machine is a bad idea.
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post #147 of 193 Old 12-23-2018, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Engine spins but wont start help

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A plugged air filter can definitely cause problems with the engine starting/running. I would put on a new one, but I can't really tell from that pic how dirty that is.

However, in the future, I would suggest that you NOT drive around and use your machine for work with the air cleaner off. It's job is to keep dirt out of your engine, and when you use it without the air filter, that dirt goes right into the engine. And leaves, particularly if they are dry, generate a lot of dirt in the air as the mower chops them up. For a minute or two, as part of testing the engine, not a big deal, but leaving it off while using the machine is a bad idea.
I was not thinking of that. I was just so happy it was running and I could pick up the leaves. Ill order a new filter today and see how it runs in a few days when it gets here.
Hopefully all it was was that cable needing to be properly adjusted and a new air filter but I tried before without the filter and it was the same.

Last edited by stangone5o; 12-23-2018 at 05:18 PM.
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post #148 of 193 Old 12-23-2018, 05:30 PM
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Re: Engine spins but wont start help

About that backfiring..I have been following this thread for a while...but I do not recall if you mentioned what engine is in the machine...does your carb have a solenoid at the bottom of the bowl?...If so it is supposed to close when the engine stops running to prevent backfiring....can you hear a clicking sound when you turn the key?...if not it may be stuck in the open position
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post #149 of 193 Old 12-23-2018, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Engine spins but wont start help

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About that backfiring..I have been following this thread for a while...but I do not recall if you mentioned what engine is in the machine...does your carb have a solenoid at the bottom of the bowl?...If so it is supposed to close when the engine stops running to prevent backfiring....can you hear a clicking sound when you turn the key?...if not it may be stuck in the open position
Its a Briggs 219807 12.5HP. It does not have a solenoid Under the bowl. I pulled the carb to clean it again before the air filter comes and there was some soot in there I think. I dont know if I mentioned but a couple times when it shut off I did see a tiny poof of smoke come out the carb pipe. Now that I think about it its always been rough when shutting down. It has backfired many times when I shut it off. I never paid any attention to it.
Am I supposed to put the throttle at the turtle then turn it off with the key? I always just turned it off at full throttle with the key.
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post #150 of 193 Old 12-23-2018, 07:18 PM
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Re: Engine spins but wont start help

In your video it now shows that when you move the white plastic piece by hand the carb linkages are operating correctly. before when your throttle cable was connected you were not getting any choke applied when the throttle lever on the dash was at choke position and the throttle high speed was not advancing far enough. If you will look back at your video you will see such, the white plastic slider was not going far enough to the rear to apply any choke. (because you did not have the THROTTLE CABLE adjusted correctly in the clamp)

Set it at slow (turtle) and let the engine idle for awhile (about 15 seconds or longer before turning the key off) and the back fire will not be as often or as loud, maybe.When you turn it off at fast (rabbit) the HOT engine is turning fast and sucks lots of fuel through the carb into the engine combustion chamber and the hot carbon inside ignites the larger gush of vaporized fuel and it can backfire out either the exhaust or carb but most generally the hot muffler.. If it still pops or backfires, live with it.


Briggs added what is called a 12v anti-back fire solenoid to their later carbs (somewhere in all these posts is a picture of one showing the wires) to reduce the amount of fuel the engine sucks when the key is turned off and reduce the backfire. Some people think the antiback fire valve completely stop fuel flow, it only reduces fuel flow. I install a manual in-line fuel cut-off valve on all the gravity flow fuel systems to prevent crank case fuel flooding during storage. You need to do the same and always check the oil level BEFORE starting your engine and if it's at a high level, suspect gasoline contamination of the oil which severely shortens engine life.

A wet air filter (from gas,water or too much oil will not let the engine get enough air.

In the picture of your air filter that is the intake side. The other side is where air enters and will be the dirty side.


AND if you are using a battery charger, disconnect or turn off your charger BEFORE cranking the engine. (unless you want to ruin your charger)

Give us a report when you get the new air filter installed?

AND
Hold off for now on getting those goats and the electric fence charger.

Have a Merry Xmas and New years.

Last edited by Forest Gump; 12-23-2018 at 07:25 PM.
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