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post #1 of 30 Unread 10-07-2019, 05:56 PM Thread Starter
Ernest t bass
 
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x580 hydraulic's

Hey guy's, ive got a question i hope someone can answer. ive got a 2019 x580 and was wondering if i could install a hydraulic block like the one's on the x700 series to run different attachment's. would it be difficult? expensive?
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post #2 of 30 Unread 10-08-2019, 03:31 AM
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Re: x580 hydraulic's

Yes you can. Difficulty depends on your abilities and skill. Expensive depends on where you shop for the components.

Your tractor has power steering. Doesn't it also have hydraulic implement lift for the mower?

Bob

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post #3 of 30 Unread 10-08-2019, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
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Re: x580 hydraulic's

yes tudor it does have hyd lift for the deck and p steering. im good with skill and abilities , i would need to be guided on the process of installing and buying the correct , complete part's i need.
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post #4 of 30 Unread 10-08-2019, 11:15 PM
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Re: x580 hydraulic's

Good. First off, what is the purpose of the added circuit(s)? The flow from the auxiliary pump is limited and suitable only for low flow (horsepower) applications. I am also not up on the specific circuitry or pressure rating specs for the auxiliary system for the K72. The K92 in the X7xx tractors has a factory setting of about 950 psi, with a max of 1502 psi and the K72 should logically be similar, but don't take my word for it.

Second, there is a relief valve that sets the maximum pressure available. Logic would place it in the transmission close to the pump to prevent overpressure, but JD has ignored that location on some hydros in the past and placed it in the spool valve body. In the transmission simplifies installing additional spool valves. In the spool valve body adds a bit of complication in that a power beyond kit is required for the original spool valve.

Once the relief valve issue is known and dealt with, the rest is fairly straight forward to tell, not quite as easy to do due to the lack of real estate for additional hoses and a location for the additional valve set. One member has added an extra 3 spools to his X7xx GT. I haven't noticed where anyone has done similar to an X5xx GT.

Primary circuit when the relief is in the hydro.

Pump > Original valve set > Additional valve set > Tank

Primary circuit when the relief is in the original valve set.

Pump > Original valve set - Power beyond port > Additional valve set > Tank
.................................... - Return port > Tank

">" = Hose or steel tube.

The return hoses (Tank) may be Teed together.

Parts required:

- A fist full of -6 JIC male adapters for the ports.

- A number of 1/4" hoses pressure rated to at least 1900 psi (2500 psi would be more my choice), of varying lengths to suit the applications, and with -6 JIC female swivel terminations.

- A valve set with the requisite number of spools. (8 gpm)

- Mounting bracket for the valve set.

- Quick connect sets in quantity to suit the number of spools. (2 sets per spool)

- Mounting brackets for the remotes (tractor half of the quick connects).

- Clamps to secure the hoses or steel lines to the tractor frame.

- Power beyond kit (if necessary).

Note:

- Primary circuit pressure lines may not be Teed.

- Work lines and return lines may be Teed as required.

- Hoses and fittings, as a group, are typically the most expensive part of a hydraulic installation.

Enjoy!

Bob

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Last edited by TUDOR; 10-08-2019 at 11:35 PM.
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post #5 of 30 Unread 10-09-2019, 07:38 AM
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Re: x580 hydraulic's

Does this help? From Tuff Torq:

Auxiliary/External Hydraulic Outlets
Available option for power steering, lift, etc.
9.3L per minute
31 bars (450 psi) @ 2,700 rpm

https://www.tufftorq.com/product/k72/.

I am kind of interested in what OP is trying to accomplish? If your trying to get a hydraulic setup, wouldn't a used x7** be more cost effective? The auxiliary pump outlet on the k72 is not even close to the pressure rating of the x7** so I am guessing there are severe limitations to the system from the hydraulic standpoint? If it's just an isolation thing, so that you can use the rear implement independently?
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post #6 of 30 Unread 10-09-2019, 08:32 AM
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Re: x580 hydraulic's

The specs state the relief pressure from the manufacturer. A hydraulic schematic will state the max pressure that can be set.

The K92 specs read 14.4 l/min at 50 bars (725 psi), but the schematics list the max pressure at 103.5 bars (1502 psi).

The Sundstrands in the older GTs (eg 318 and 400) came with about 900 psi settings. Max was 1000 psi.

Bob

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post #7 of 30 Unread 10-09-2019, 08:36 AM
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Re: x580 hydraulic's

Quote:
Originally Posted by TUDOR View Post
The specs state the relief pressure from the manufacturer. A hydraulic schematic will state the max pressure that can be set.

The K92 specs read 14.4 l/min at 50 bars (725 psi), but the schematics list the max pressure at 103.5 bars (1502 psi).

The Sundstrands in the older GTs (eg 318 and 400) came with about 900 psi settings. Max was 1000 psi.
Sorry, I should have clarified. If the set pressure is 50% lower, can it be a safe assumption that the max pressure would be as well given the similarities between the k92 and the k72?
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post #8 of 30 Unread 10-09-2019, 09:16 AM
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Re: x580 hydraulic's

I'm going to be the voice of reason from the other side of the isle. If you intend to operate any hydraulic implements, simply put - you bought the wrong machine. Among other shortcomings, the X580 does not have a large enough hydraulic fluid reservoir to be of any use for external implements.

Cut your losses now, sell the X580 and get yourself a used X700-series or 1-series machine that is intended for such duty.
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post #9 of 30 Unread 10-09-2019, 10:21 AM
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Re: x580 hydraulic's

Quote:
Originally Posted by winkeldc View Post
Sorry, I should have clarified. If the set pressure is 50% lower, can it be a safe assumption that the max pressure would be as well given the similarities between the k92 and the k72?
I don't make that kind of assumption with expensive pumps.

If you really want to know, call Tuff Tork.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgayman View Post
I'm going to be the voice of reason from the other side of the isle. If you intend to operate any hydraulic implements, simply put - you bought the wrong machine. Among other shortcomings, the X580 does not have a large enough hydraulic fluid reservoir to be of any use for external implements.

Cut your losses now, sell the X580 and get yourself a used X700-series or 1-series machine that is intended for such duty.
You're right ... if he has a plan to use a hydraulic motor of any size. The problem there is the limited flow and low pressure available. The motor could only develop about 0.7 hp with stock hydraulics. If all he wants is to use a couple of cylinders, that is not a problem. The difference between full extension and full retraction is the volume of the cylinder rod as far as the reservoir is concerned. All 6 of the cylinder rods (71" of stroke length, most of it with a 2" bore) on my GT and loader total only about a quart of oil from the reservoir. The reservoir on a X580 contains 5.6 quarts and being a quart low for a relatively short period of time is not going to hurt it. If the fluid level gets too low (down about 2 quarts), the hydro will quit moving the tractor and the cylinders won't work.

It all depends on what he plans to use the extra capability for. A log splitter is not feasible if you want production. On the other hand, a couple of cylinders to raise and angle a front or rear blade is exactly what the system was originally designed for.

What other shortcomings were you thinking of?

Bob

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post #10 of 30 Unread 10-09-2019, 12:54 PM
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Re: x580 hydraulic's

Quote:
Originally Posted by TUDOR View Post
I don't make that kind of assumption with expensive pumps.

If you really want to know, call Tuff Tork.



You're right ... if he has a plan to use a hydraulic motor of any size. The problem there is the limited flow and low pressure available. The motor could only develop about 0.7 hp with stock hydraulics. If all he wants is to use a couple of cylinders, that is not a problem. The difference between full extension and full retraction is the volume of the cylinder rod as far as the reservoir is concerned. All 6 of the cylinder rods (71" of stroke length, most of it with a 2" bore) on my GT and loader total only about a quart of oil from the reservoir. The reservoir on a X580 contains 5.6 quarts and being a quart low for a relatively short period of time is not going to hurt it. If the fluid level gets too low (down about 2 quarts), the hydro will quit moving the tractor and the cylinders won't work.

It all depends on what he plans to use the extra capability for. A log splitter is not feasible if you want production. On the other hand, a couple of cylinders to raise and angle a front or rear blade is exactly what the system was originally designed for.

What other shortcomings were you thinking of?

As a previous owner of a 2018 X580 I would like to point out a few facts. I purchased my 580 with the full intent of performing ground breaking/moving work. I had loam to move, hills to grade, snow to move, seed and fertilizer to plant/spread, large loads to haul (1500lb), etc..

I was successful in every instance when using the machines existing hydraulics and the attachments designed for the machine. That includes the 48" blade, 48" deck, powered (hydraulic) integral rear sleeve hitch, box blades, rakes and tillers.

There was no need to install or upgrade to additional hydraulics to perform any of this work with available attachments, and my only wish at the time was that I had a 3pt hitch giving me the ability to use heavier attachments, and additional hydraulics up front for angling blades etc..

Once I settled into the fact that I needed a larger machine for the next half of my property project I settled in on an X738 with 3pt hitch, full hydraulics up front, 4wd, and deck. After receiving the machine this past spring I began the process of modifying or replacing my attachments as needed, and purchasing a few attachments supported by the additional machine capabilities. Those included Imatch, grapple, and the additional up front hydraulics which support the grapple and front blade angle. My plan worked as I imagined it would and I now have a machine large enough and capable enough to support my needs now and in the future.

If the OP needs additional hydraulic capabilities I will say, based on my 580 ownership, that he is wasting his time and money upgrading his 580 hydraulics for any number of reasons which may include but are not limited to;

Warranty void, service, capabilities, available attachments to fit the 580 frame, time and materials to modify, and so on.

And, although the K72 is an incredible transmission fully capable of supporting ground engaging attachments, it is not even close to being in the same league as any of the K90 family of transmissions, period, end of subject.

So, OP, do the right thing. either use the X580 to it's full potential as designed, or jump to the X7xx series as I and so many others have and never look back.

Then you can put a grapple up front!!
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post #11 of 30 Unread 10-09-2019, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: x580 hydraulic's

Thank's everybody for your honest reply's. I sold my lt190 with 877 hr's and running like a charm to buy my x580 because i wanted to buy some attachment's for it. I wish i had looked down the road and bought a 700 serie's. If i had it to do over again i would have. i guess i will have to look for rear sleeve hitch's that has electric linear actuator's. I will be 4 year's paying the machine off , so whatever i buy for it i will sell it all as a package and then get a 700 serie's. Does anyone know of a good internal sleeve hitch that will work a rear blade? most of the one's i'm looking at say they don't fit a x580?
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post #12 of 30 Unread 10-09-2019, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
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Re: x580 hydraulic's

Nice!!!
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post #13 of 30 Unread 10-09-2019, 07:58 PM
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Re: x580 hydraulic's

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgibsonguy View Post
So, OP, do the right thing. either use the X580 to it's full potential as designed, or jump to the X7xx series as I and so many others have and never look back.

Then you can put a grapple up front!!
You are assuming that the OP wants to turn his X580 into a construction machine, and you would be correct if that was the case.

There is also the possibility that the OP has health issues and needs some convenience features, such as the blade angling that you mentioned. Or perhaps the 41" wide X580 can fit through a restriction that the 47" wide X7xx tractors can't. Or maybe it's because the bank account won't support the purchase of the larger tractor.

Any and all of the above are valid reasons to add the modifications to the existing platform. This is why I asked the purpose of the mods without saying why they are not a good idea. When he comes up with the purposes is when I will add my yes or no to the validity of his intentions.

For myself, I have used my GTs, and my SCUT, as construction equipment. Since 1978, I have had at least one loader equipped tractor in service. First, a small MF12H for 7 years, second was a considerably more potent MF1655 for 22 years, and my newest acquisition is a MF GC2310 that I have used for 13 years. Each has/had capabilities that the others don't have. The MF12h ($750 used, 4 spools of hydraulics added by me) could fit into places that the two larger tractors could not, the MF1655 ($6,000 used, 6 spools of hydraulics, 4 of them added) was a power lifter that outshone either of the others, and the SCUT ($20,000 new, 9 original spools of hydraulics) has a fuel sipping diesel, power steering, and a back hoe.

The GTs had enough spools for the tools available to them. The SCUT could use a couple more. Climbing off and on the tractor with a bad back in order to adjust the angle of the back blade is not an enjoyable task, which is why the blade rarely gets angled.

Bob

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post #14 of 30 Unread 10-09-2019, 11:04 PM
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Re: x580 hydraulic's

Quote:
Originally Posted by ernie x580 View Post
Thank's everybody for your honest reply's. I sold my lt190 with 877 hr's and running like a charm to buy my x580 because i wanted to buy some attachment's for it. I wish i had looked down the road and bought a 700 serie's. If i had it to do over again i would have. i guess i will have to look for rear sleeve hitch's that has electric linear actuator's. I will be 4 year's paying the machine off , so whatever i buy for it i will sell it all as a package and then get a 700 serie's. Does anyone know of a good internal sleeve hitch that will work a rear blade? most of the one's i'm looking at say they don't fit a x580?
According to the L&G accessories brochure JD offers two integral hitches for the X580. One power and one manual.
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post #15 of 30 Unread 10-09-2019, 11:32 PM
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Re: x580 hydraulic's

Quote:
Originally Posted by ernie x580 View Post
Thank's everybody for your honest reply's. I sold my lt190 with 877 hr's and running like a charm to buy my x580 because i wanted to buy some attachment's for it. I wish i had looked down the road and bought a 700 serie's. If i had it to do over again i would have. i guess i will have to look for rear sleeve hitch's that has electric linear actuator's. I will be 4 year's paying the machine off , so whatever i buy for it i will sell it all as a package and then get a 700 serie's. Does anyone know of a good internal sleeve hitch that will work a rear blade? most of the one's i'm looking at say they don't fit a x580?
All good points.

Ernie: What is the X580 worth in its' present state?....

Buying a new X700 series will be expensive - just like the 580 was.
But there are plenty of used excellent-shape machines out there as well.... is that an option for you?... or do you really prefer to not go there?.....
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