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post #1 of 34 Old 03-21-2019, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
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Dumbest question of the day - rear wheel removal on 185

Hopefully dumbest question only of the day and not of the week, month, or year.

I have a JD 185 Hydrostatic that is serving as a parts donor for my 180 gear drive for the time being. I'd like to put the rear wheels from the 185 on the 180. I've taken the rear wheels off of the 180 with no problems whatsoever but the "passenger" side rear wheel on the 185 will not come off regardless of what type or amount of persuasion I apply. PB Blaster, Deep Creep, dead blow hammer on opposite sides of the wheel knocking it back and forth, a set of big pry bars, nothing budges it at all.

185 "drivers" side rear wheel slid right off as nice as you please, which is what both 180 rear wheels always did. Is there something different about the transmission/passenger side rear wheel on a hydrostatic?

A few photos are included of the rear wheels, just for grins. As you can see, drivers side is off, passenger side is on.

Thanks
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post #2 of 34 Old 03-21-2019, 04:13 PM
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Re: Dumbest question of the day - rear wheel removal on 185

Its probably rust welded to the shaft... Are there two holes in the wheel to use a puller on it?
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post #3 of 34 Old 03-21-2019, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dumbest question of the day - rear wheel removal on 185

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Originally Posted by Teen with 318 View Post
Its probably rust welded to the shaft... Are there two holes in the wheel to use a puller on it?
Thanks for the reply.

The other wheel slid right off so I would have thought they both would have had equal amounts of rust?

No holes for a puller on these wheels.

I've flooded it with every kind of canned loosening chemical I own, guess ATF and acetone is next and more hammering/prying. Or I just run the mud tires on the 180 and leave these on the 185 but I'd really like to run turf tires on my yard.
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post #4 of 34 Old 03-21-2019, 04:38 PM
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Re: Dumbest question of the day - rear wheel removal on 185

Can you get a pic straight on the tire, did you look for snap ring? There appears to be something more mechanical on that side versus the other????

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post #5 of 34 Old 03-21-2019, 04:46 PM
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Re: Dumbest question of the day - rear wheel removal on 185

I had the same problem with the same position wheel trying to change tires on an STX 38...I tried heat, impact, WD40, actone and transmission fluid, Kroil...no reaction ...I broke the bead and made enough room along the rim and tried using 3 jaw puller and started to bend the rim..so I wound up having to work the tire off the rim and put new one on while still on the tractor

If the tractor is being pirated for parts see if you can drill out the keyed joint from the end of the axle with a small bit....it's possible that the woodruff key sheared and is just jammed in there

Or you could just take the axle out of the trans with the wheel on it and put the shaft in a pipe that is big enough diameter and long enough to contain it and then whack the end of the axle and see if you can break it free...good luck, let us know how you make out
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post #6 of 34 Old 03-21-2019, 05:17 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dumbest question of the day - rear wheel removal on 185

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Originally Posted by MARK (LI) View Post
I had the same problem with the same position wheel trying to change tires on an STX 38...I tried heat, impact, WD40, actone and transmission fluid, Kroil...no reaction ...I broke the bead and made enough room along the rim and tried using 3 jaw puller and started to bend the rim..so I wound up having to work the tire off the rim and put new one on while still on the tractor

If the tractor is being pirated for parts see if you can drill out the keyed joint from the end of the axle with a small bit....it's possible that the woodruff key sheared and is just jammed in there

Or you could just take the axle out of the trans with the wheel on it and put the shaft in a pipe that is big enough diameter and long enough to contain it and then whack the end of the axle and see if you can break it free...good luck, let us know how you make out
Thanks, this is exactly what I ran into so I don't feel quite so stupid asking now. I thought there was something mechanical on a hydro I'd overlooked. I've broken loose truck wheels rusted to hubs with less drama than this. I've used Kroil and Silikroil along with the other stuff mentioned above, ATF and acetone is my last resort before getting out the 4' steel pipe and breaker bar but I can't use that on this situation.

The 185 still runs, I just prefer the 180, but I'm not to the point of trashing the 185 to get a wheel off. I'm going to rethink how badly I want these tires on the 180, haha.
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post #7 of 34 Old 03-21-2019, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dumbest question of the day - rear wheel removal on 185

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Can you get a pic straight on the tire, did you look for snap ring? There appears to be something more mechanical on that side versus the other????
I've removed everything I can see on both wheels, one slid right off and the other won't move. I thought there was something else additional on a hydro too, sounds like Mark had the same problem. Maybe someone else knows what's behind this.
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post #8 of 34 Old 03-21-2019, 05:51 PM
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Re: Dumbest question of the day - rear wheel removal on 185

Sometimes it isn't easy. I had to cut both rear wheels off of a 165 with a sawzall and air chisel. Not fun, but can be done.
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post #9 of 34 Old 03-21-2019, 06:14 PM
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Re: Dumbest question of the day - rear wheel removal on 185

Just be aware the axle is only retained in the transaxle by a snap ring--so any heavy handed hammer blows to the back side of the rim might end up making the axle come right out,and now the snap ring is floating somewhere inside the case..
Every year I usually see a lawn tractor tire,rim with its back side bashed in,and axle in the metal pile at the dump..
Sometimes the rest of the transaxle is sitting nearby too..

I have had many rims refuse to budge,had to use cutting torches or a sawsall to cut them off,and the axle seals usually get destroyed in the process..
Pullers sometimes work,but most of the time they just bend the rims before they pull free..
Worst rims to get off were the ones that had a roll pin driven thru the rim hub and axle shaft..those were on old sit down mowers with chain driven rear axles..most of them I had to destroy to get off..

I have resorted to tack welding a nut to the rim ,then screw a bolt in it and tighten it,so it pushes against the axle shaft--this will usually pull the rim off..if your careful you can grind the weld off and be able to use the rim again..


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post #10 of 34 Old 03-21-2019, 06:26 PM
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Re: Dumbest question of the day - rear wheel removal on 185

Hey Robert...another ingenious do it yourself solution...that is a great idea...do you remember if you used a certain type of nut to absorb the heat without distorting the hole and threads in the nut?
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post #11 of 34 Old 03-21-2019, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dumbest question of the day - rear wheel removal on 185

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Sometimes it isn't easy. I had to cut both rear wheels off of a 165 with a sawzall and air chisel. Not fun, but can be done.
Could you tell what was actually "stuck" after you finished surgery?
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post #12 of 34 Old 03-21-2019, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dumbest question of the day - rear wheel removal on 185

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Originally Posted by Tractor-Holic View Post
Just be aware the axle is only retained in the transaxle by a snap ring--so any heavy handed hammer blows to the back side of the rim might end up making the axle come right out,and now the snap ring is floating somewhere inside the case..
Every year I usually see a lawn tractor tire,rim with its back side bashed in,and axle in the metal pile at the dump..
Sometimes the rest of the transaxle is sitting nearby too..

I have had many rims refuse to budge,had to use cutting torches or a sawsall to cut them off,and the axle seals usually get destroyed in the process..
Pullers sometimes work,but most of the time they just bend the rims before they pull free..
Worst rims to get off were the ones that had a roll pin driven thru the rim hub and axle shaft..those were on old sit down mowers with chain driven rear axles..most of them I had to destroy to get off..

I have resorted to tack welding a nut to the rim ,then screw a bolt in it and tighten it,so it pushes against the axle shaft--this will usually pull the rim off..if your careful you can grind the weld off and be able to use the rim again..
Thanks for the reply. I thought I'd better stop before I broke something, like the snap ring you mentioned, or bent the wheel. As mentioned above, I've used less force to break truck wheels loose that had rust welded themselves to the hub so it was definitely time to stop.

What I don't understand is why one rear slid right off and the other side was stuck. Both front wheels came right off this same tractor. I've never had this happen on my 180 and I've had wheels off and on a number of times. As Mark mentioned above, he had the same thing happen on the same "drive" side.

Did you ever figure out what had seized the wheels in place when you tore into them?

I had the FSM for this series of mower on an old laptop and just dug that out and so far see nothing mentioned about a difference in the rear wheel on that side for the 185 hydro versus the 180 gear drive.

Wonder if it's the heat from the hydro heating the axle shaft and creating some sort of bond between the wheel and the axle shaft over time, or something of that nature.

As mentioned, I'll probably just leave the wheels on there versus bend or break something now that I know it's not uncommon to have this happen. I don't have a welder else I'd try the trick with the nut.
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post #13 of 34 Old 03-21-2019, 09:33 PM
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Re: Dumbest question of the day - rear wheel removal on 185

I've ran into some rough seized rims on mowers/tractors/tillers. Not a fun thing and requires patience to keep from ruining the xmission. Hammering on the rear of the rim is not a good thing for the Xmission axle shaft.

It appears your shaft is about 3/4 to one inch. I've taken a very large nut that will fit over the axle shaft and weld it too the rim then use the nut's bolt to use as a pusher. (even then sometimes i had to apply heat/cool to the area around the axle shaft at the wheel. do not get it hot enough to ruin a seal, etc. When through you can sometimes just leave the nut welded onto the rim and re-install the wheel.

Safety Heads Up. Before welding or applying any heat let the air out of the tire and leave the schrader valve out of the stem.

This is to prevent the air inside the tire from becoming a bomb.
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post #14 of 34 Old 03-21-2019, 10:05 PM
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The axles diameter are different between the 5 speeds and the hydros.

Be careful and do not mushroom the end of axle or damage the snap ring grove.

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post #15 of 34 Old 03-22-2019, 01:16 AM
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Re: Dumbest question of the day - rear wheel removal on 185

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Originally Posted by 8888 View Post
Could you tell what was actually "stuck" after you finished surgery?
Just a matter of years of neglect. Rear wheels were rusted on to axle shafts. I also tried hammering from the backside of the wheel, but didn't want to cause internal damage.

Sometimes It's better to keep your mouth shut, and have the world think you a fool, than to speak, and remove all doubt.
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